Still want to see more fleet lists, but IF Rebels truly are the entire Top 8 and most of the Top 16 then it is time for FFG to get out the Nerf bat. Based on past examples, that would meet the threshold for some changes.

At least some of the changes will be Rebel specific. Which means 2 obvious candidates, Yavaris and Rieekan.

1 minute ago, shmitty said:

Still want to see more fleet lists, but IF Rebels truly are the entire Top 8 and most of the Top 16 then it is time for FFG to get out the Nerf bat. Based on past examples, that would meet the threshold for some changes.

At least some of the changes will be Rebel specific. Which means 2 obvious candidates, Yavaris and Rieekan.

Yavaris is fine IMO. It's on a weak ship that can get 1 shotted by pretty much anything bigger than it. Rieekan and activations bloating are the issues.

Just now, Sybreed said:

Yavaris is fine IMO. It's on a weak ship that can get 1 shotted by pretty much anything bigger than it. Rieekan and activations bloating are the issues.

Aside from Rieekan, Yavaris was the common denominator by the accounts we have. Based on how FFG does things, I would expect it to get a nerf.

Going back to what @geek19 said about sloane, I played a few games of sloane v. rieekan and I can say that the sheer number of ties can kill rieekan not because they are taking out my fighters but because they are taking away tokens from my ships and they getting destroyed leaving me to just get as much as I can out of that ship. I think sloane will help against rieekan, but will completely negate him. Sloane and the speed of imperial squads will beat rieekan and slow squadrons. I will say though that Rieekan and the amount of activations is a bit absurd. I abused floatillas with RLB and flight commander and aces quite a bit. Pretty much a 27 point ship (35 with BCC), that shouldn't or can't deal damage, is dealing at least 3 damage in 1 attacks.

What's interesting is the presence of Ten Numb in both of the finals fleets. He went in my Reiken aces build immediately after the first iteration because he hits hard against ships, but is also incredibly effective against squadrons balls that have become ubiquitous to the meta. With Adar Tallon, Yavaris and Rieeken guaranteeing shots he is actually a pretty firm hard counter to imperial fighter balls that tend to be in the 3-4 health range and still does a lot of work against rebel squadron balls like Biggs.

Reeiken isn't necessarily OP on his own, but rebel squadrons and ships are getting to the point where there is simply too much to capitalize on it (pawing off everyone's damage to X-Wing that's already dead is pretty stupid).

Not sure a point adjustment would even be enough, but I'm also skeptical of any direct nerf to his ability. Paying points for each ship/squadron that would benefit would be way too cumbersome. A set number of zombies a turn will either be too limiting or fix nothing (1 would be pretty rough, but it's super uncommon for me to have more than 2 zombies active at a time). Removing the ship after it activates would stop at least some of the problem, but adding possible effects like "Disintigration Turbolaser- After resolving an attack against an enemy ship, if it has a number of damage cards equal to or greater than it's hull value, remove that ship from play" would be really weird and exclusively good against Reeiken barring another release.

1 hour ago, CaribbeanNinja said:

@miedomeda

2. The look of the finals to anyone new watching. People at FFG would come by the tv in the diner part, look at the screen for about two or three minutes, and shrug. Rieekan vs Rieekan is kind of a boring squad match to see when you don't know the game I think.

Carrier fleet vs carrier fleet is beyond dull and looks like a giant ball of poo on the table. 6x3 playing area and 10% of the play area is occupied. Not good. The game is way too cluttered. They are trying to spread it out (biggs, relay, strategic, snipe) but it's not enough. I wouldn't mind seeing a AOE ship weapon that does damage to everything in an area. That would make the RatBall scatter!

I will say that I am a novice, besides CC I have played two beginner games. Not having faced Meta builds I am not too opinionated, but as a novice and from maybe a more theatrical view, I dislike Flotillas and the power of the squadrons. I have taken advantage of tough squadrons, but I would not be upset if they were to have their power curved. In my limited view these two things will cause the most issues in the future of this game. I hope this is not the case and that FFG finds a balance here that has eluded them in the other space miniature game. I do not like seeing so little variety in the cut at Worlds, it reminds me of the Fat Han days and I hated that meta.

I will let the adults carrying on their conversation and go play with my plastic space ships. pew-pew-pew.

apologies, off topic: Oh Emperor, where are you...

So happy to see him in IA, now its just Armada that does not have him. I dont care if he fits, I just want him. And maybe HE is the chosen one and brings balance to the...to Armada.

22 minutes ago, shmitty said:

Aside from Rieekan, Yavaris was the common denominator by the accounts we have. Based on how FFG does things, I would expect it to get a nerf.

well, one could say the problem is that squadrons are extremely powerful, and Yavaris exploits that. Before wave 3-4, Yavaris wasn't perceived as a particularly strong ship. Well, yes it was strong, but on a weak ship overall.

2 minutes ago, Sybreed said:

well, one could say the problem is that squadrons are extremely powerful, and Yavaris exploits that. Before wave 3-4, Yavaris wasn't perceived as a particularly strong ship. Well, yes it was strong, but on a weak ship overall.

No argument from me. I'm not actually saying Yavaris needs a nerf, but that from FFG's history I expect one.

1 minute ago, shmitty said:

No argument from me. I'm not actually saying Yavaris needs a nerf, but that from FFG's history I expect one.

Based on FFG's history with Armada, there won't be. They haven't really done any balance-based errata.

17 minutes ago, shmitty said:

Aside from Rieekan, Yavaris was the common denominator by the accounts we have. Based on how FFG does things, I would expect it to get a nerf.

I'm somewhat expecting that Sloane/Imp Carrier is the nerf. Sloane hits fighter aces, flotillas & MC30s (especially Admo) by stripping/threatening defense tokens.

I'd love to see a Sloan/Carrier/Arqs/Ties list flown by a regionals-class player.

FFG tends to address Armada balance issues with options to combat builds that are strong (ala Demolisher).

2 minutes ago, comatose said:

Based on FFG's history with Armada, there won't be. They haven't really done any balance-based errata.

Not yet, but they have in Imp Assault and X-Wing:

Quote

While the influx of new figures and cards contributed to varied lists competing at the top level, it was clear that the tournament metagame revolved around two well-defined archetypes: Royal Guard swarm with Imperial Officers and Rebel Saboteur-backed Rebels.

We have been watching the figures in these armies carefully and have come to the conclusion that some of these figures are simply more powerful than the alternatives and their presence inhibits the growth of a healthy metagame. To ensure a diverse and interactive second year of Skirmish, it has become necessary to exercise errata.

Why not an interdictor buff? Maybe a grav-well that causes squads to be switched to activated or something? It buffs the Interdictor and reduces the viability of huge carrier fleets.

Another Rieekan suggestion:

Destroyed ships that are activating cannot resolve commands or use upgrade cards.

No more squadron activation from destroyed ships! And flotillas now hate Rieekan.

7 minutes ago, ricefrisbeetreats said:

Why not an interdictor buff? Maybe a grav-well that causes squads to be switched to activated or something? It buffs the Interdictor and reduces the viability of huge carrier fleets.

Experimental refit that does... Wait... There IS a card but it only works once against squadrons... Hmmmmm

3 minutes ago, Lyraeus said:

Experimental refit that does... Wait... There IS a card but it only works once against squadrons... Hmmmmm

Make targetting scrambler not an exhaust against squadrons?

1 hour ago, Sybreed said:

don't worry, FFG will release a new OP counter to Rieekan aces, and that will be the new 100% win meta fleet.

Erratas doesn't force us to buy new and improved ships !

But seriously, removing squads from Rieekan's ability and not letting commanders be attached to flotillas would be a good start.

Or perhaps ignoring abilities and upgrades on anything that are destroyed but not still removed from play.

3 minutes ago, Sybreed said:

Make targetting scrambler not an exhaust against squadrons?

Hmmmm or once per Attackers Activation so Yavaris is not utterly sol.

10 minutes ago, Sybreed said:

Another Rieekan suggestion:

Destroyed ships that are activating cannot resolve commands or use upgrade cards.

No more squadron activation from destroyed ships! And flotillas now hate Rieekan.

They still flip the dial but don't get the benefits. Just have them not able to resolve commands. Let them have upgrade cards but not commands. Suddenly zombie'd CR90 rammers can Engine Techs (unless they already spent the command in the first place)

Hmmm that would balance Rieekan on ships.

40 minutes ago, Thraug said:

FFG tends to address Armada balance issues with options to combat builds that are strong (ala Demolisher).

The issue is that, those types of fixes leads to bigger problems (see flotillas)

2 minutes ago, Lyraeus said:

The issue is that, those types of fixes leads to bigger problems (see flotillas)

exactly. Hence why I said in a sarcastic tone that erratas are bad and power creep is better

1 minute ago, Sybreed said:

exactly. Hence why I said in a sarcastic tone that erratas are bad and power creep is better

I come from 40k... PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE DON'T DO POWER CREEP

6 minutes ago, Lyraeus said:

I come from 40k... PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE DON'T DO POWER CREEP

like I said, it was sarcastic and aimed at FFG with their philosophy of not doing erratas. It promotes power creep because they instead provide new tools that counter the most powerful builds. These new tools now become mandatory, hence why I say they're already going power creep with Armada.

5 minutes ago, Sybreed said:

like I said, it was sarcastic and aimed at FFG with their philosophy of not doing erratas. It promotes power creep because they instead provide stuff that counters the most powerful build. That new stuff now becomes mandatory.

Ahem, flotillas.