It's kind of apples and oranges.
Colors to clans doesnt make much sense. Clans are more like magic archetypes.
You could say in a really general sense that (at least in the CCG) the politically savvy clans are more control like and the military oriented clans are more aggro.
But all of this is kind of stupid. To someone new or coming from MtG I would say just read the blurbs about each clan, that will give you a good sense of how they generally operate.
Hey, remember Kamigawa block? Seems like a potential fit. Heck, even Portal: Three Kingdoms might be able to help. Or does that show my age?
6 minutes ago, Kubernes said:Hey, remember Kamigawa block? Seems like a potential fit. Heck, even Portal: Three Kingdoms might be able to help. Or does that show my age?
No, it just shows that you assume games with Asian themes must be comparable with one another.
Crab is G/W in playstyle for the most part.
Either swarmy or big beefy creatures with resistances, if you treat holdings as an analogue for Enchantments (not creature enchantments) it seems likely to hold true in the LCG
3 hours ago, Kubernes said:Hey, remember Kamigawa block? Seems like a potential fit. Heck, even Portal: Three Kingdoms might be able to help. Or does that show my age?
I don't see much in common between Kamigawa and L5R, other than the mutual Japanese theme. Kamigawa was more about a war between the mortals and the spirits, and focused on alot of other races instead of just humans (Kitsune, Nezumi, Orochi, Ogres, and Soratami. I know L5R has Nezumi, but Kamigawa had a much bigger focus on them). There weren't really warring clans in Kamigawa, and honor and stuff were only really cared about by White-aligned human and Kitsune samurai. Also I think Portal: Three Kingdoms was CHINESE based. Never played it, but I assume from the name it was based on Romance of the Three Kingdoms.
These attempts at drawing parallels between the Great Clans and M:tG colors never really work out well.
Edited by Kakita Shiro6 hours ago, Isawa Syd said:Agreed. Mtg is checkers. L5r was chess.
This. I started with L5R, tried MTG, and went straight back to L5R. Didn't touch MTG again until FFG bought L5R and I faced the prospect of two long years of waiting. Only a few months to go!
Guys, slating MTG isn't going to help any. Fact is, MTG has an enormous player base and we should make it as easy as possible for them to get into L5R so the player base of L5R can grow. When you have any dominant game in the market, making a transition guide to your new game is always a sound marketing decision. Which game is better is subjective and not really relevant in this regard.
Agree. I first played MtG when I was a kid during Urza's block. I quit because it was too expensive for me. Later I tryed L5R when it was first released in spanish, during Diamond and I loved it, and stuck to the game, but our friendly local store was not that friendly about the game and everyone quit. I ocasionally played during the next years but never really came back. Always hoped that it would become a LCG game, and when DT:R was released the hype was real.
Both games, MtG and L5R had unfashioned mechanics, and L5R will greatly benefit from this reboot. Then same would happen to Magic, but that's not gonna happen as the money monster it is, they just patch it cycle after cycle.
Off the top of my head... (and based on overly simplified stereotypes of clan decks and magic colours)
Crab is Selesnya Green/White. Big creatures/characters, anti-shadowlands/black hate. Provinces taking the place of enchantments. More grim in tone though.
Crane is blUe/White. Defensive honour and control, lots of small courtiers and honour running/life gain.
Dragon is WUBRG. Going after enlightenment means doing combos and confusion.
Lion is Boros White/Red weenie. Hordes of aggressive honourable Samurai.
Phoenix is Jeskai (blUe/Red/White) or Esper (blUe/Black/White). Honour running wizards with powerful control and creature kill. Corruption optional.
Scorpion is probably Grixis, but for different reasons. Blue for control and card draw, black for hand hate, and red for direct honour burn.
Unicorn is possibly (Red/blUe), for fast aggro control with flying creatures.
Edited by Fumo2 hours ago, slowreflex said:Guys, slating MTG isn't going to help any. Fact is, MTG has an enormous player base and we should make it as easy as possible for them to get into L5R so the player base of L5R can grow. When you have any dominant game in the market, making a transition guide to your new game is always a sound marketing decision. Which game is better is subjective and not really relevant in this regard.
That being said, however, people are right in saying the two are too different to make any valuable comparisons between them, especially given how limited our information on the LCG is at the moment despite a general knowledge of what happens during any given turn. More important, I think, is to not slam the game for any perceived faults it might have, as these will inevitably color perception among those who play Magic but are curious about L5R (it's certainly colored mine, but I've belonged to these forums long enough that I've basically learned to deal with it. Not so for someone who's visiting for the first time and immediately clicks this thread).
I've never really played Magic. I know the basic rules but all my knowledge of how the different colors work comes off the MtG TVTropes page. I'll be comparing to how the L5R CCG worked.
The main difficulty in comparing them is that they have different win conditions. There isn't an analogue for Provinces in Magic. Dishonor in L5R is the closest conceptually to how Life works in Magic. But mechanically they function very differently. Even two Dishonor decks going against each other looks very different from two Magic decks going against each other.
There's also the fact that in L5R all mana is uncolored. So choice of faction doesn't really affect deck building. That's changing with the LCG since there are going to be Clan specific conflict cards, but it still just costs fate so you don't have the issue of some decks getting more use out of a GGG card compared to a 4G card.
5 hours ago, slowreflex said:Guys, slating MTG isn't going to help any. Fact is, MTG has an enormous player base and we should make it as easy as possible for them to get into L5R so the player base of L5R can grow. When you have any dominant game in the market, making a transition guide to your new game is always a sound marketing decision. Which game is better is subjective and not really relevant in this regard.
My earlier comment is not to suggest that L5R was/ is better, but to indicate my preference for the complexity of L5R. Granted, this may have been a barrier to entry for some, but I liked how involved it was. This perceived complexity, chess if you will, does not compare well to checkers. 9 clans with 4+ different play styles each, you're looking at 36+. This does not fit well with a 5 color system.
When I first tried MTG I was asking people which color(s) would best emulate certain clans and could not get a straight answer. Depending who you talk to, each clan could be every color. Even the lion had their black lion supporters.
The point is, comparing clans and colors is difficult and not very beneficial. A better way to sell this game to the MTG player base is to focus on the merits of the L5R LCG and what makes L5R special and unique; the lore and level of player involvement in the story both come to mind.
In a nutshell, the colors of mana and their corresponding philosophies, according to MaRo.
White seeks Peace through Structure.
Blue seeks Improvement through Knowledge.
Black seeks Power through Opportunity.
Red seeks Freedom through Action.
And Green seeks Harmony through Understanding.
1 hour ago, Builder2 said:In a nutshell, the colors of mana and their corresponding philosophies, according to MaRo.
White seeks Peace through Structure.
Blue seeks Improvement through Knowledge.
Black seeks Power through Opportunity.
Red seeks Freedom through Action.
And Green seeks Harmony through Understanding.
This is great and all, but L5R's clans are not monolithic like Magic's colors are because L5R is based around individuals, and individuals vary. Even within peaceful clans like the Phoenix, you have the occasional violent warmonger like Isawa Asahina. Among the typically dishonest Scorpion you have junshin (honorable Scorpion) like Bayushi Yojiro. The ruthless maho-tsukai Daigotsu has a soft spot for his wife and son (queue "Blow Us All Away").
If we cannot compare MtG to L5R, then we cannot compare LR to Chess. Let's be serious here. Certain L5R stereotypes can be compared within certain MtG stereotypes. In broad strokes, not perfect ones. But they can be compared. Anyone who can see the cards will easily understand that while some comparisons may be done, both games are different. Much like L5R and Chess.
9 minutes ago, Wintersong said:If we cannot compare MtG to L5R, then we cannot compare LR to Chess. ... both games are different
D**n you!
Couldn't you post this before I started writing a treatise why MtG is football and L5R is College Women Rugby where a tie is decided by a game of Snooker unless both side decide to settle the score with a game of Lacrosse.
<- Sad Crane
Edited by Mig el PigIn simple terms for MTG:
White- Goodness, protection, weenie, religion.
Black: Evil, corruption, disloyal.
Red: Fire, destruction, recklessness
Green: Nature, huge creatures, loyalty
Blue- knowledge, denial, cunning
The problem is L5R clans probably fit into at least 2 colors is not all of them.
47 minutes ago, Wintersong said:If we cannot compare MtG to L5R, then we cannot compare LR to Chess. Let's be serious here. Certain L5R stereotypes can be compared within certain MtG stereotypes. In broad strokes, not perfect ones. But they can be compared. Anyone who can see the cards will easily understand that while some comparisons may be done, both games are different. Much like L5R and Chess.
I am serious. I don't compare it to chess.
2 hours ago, Builder2 said:In a nutshell, the colors of mana and their corresponding philosophies, according to MaRo.
White seeks Peace through Structure.
Blue seeks Improvement through Knowledge.
Black seeks Power through Opportunity.
Red seeks Freedom through Action.
And Green seeks Harmony through Understanding.
Peace through Structure = Crane, sort of
Improvement through Knowledge = Phoenix
Power through Opportunity = Nobody, because seeking power for its own sake would be highly dishonorable. It would fit the old timeline's Spider, though.
Freedom through Action = Nobody, because anyone seeking freedom would just walk off and become a ronin.
Harmony through Understanding = Dragon
Obviously that's not all the clans. The others might be:
Security through Duty = Crab
Perfection through Dedication = More accurate Crane
Honor through Action = Lion
Necessity through Loyalty = Scorpion
Compassion through Resourcefulness = Unicorn
2 hours ago, Kakita Shiro said:This is great and all, but L5R's clans are not monolithic like Magic's colors are because L5R is based around individuals, and individuals vary. Even within peaceful clans like the Phoenix, you have the occasional violent warmonger like Isawa Asahina. Among the typically dishonest Scorpion you have junshin (honorable Scorpion) like Bayushi Yojiro. The ruthless maho-tsukai Daigotsu has a soft spot for his wife and son (queue "Blow Us All Away").
Yeah, obviously you're not going to be able to completely summarize an entire clanful of people with only two words. But trying to distill the ethos of a clan down to one word for goals and one word for methods is an interesting thought exercise, at the very least. And it could be useful for new players.
Two overall issues with this.
1) Like it is mentioned, you might be able to do broad strokes, but it will always be "Kinda, sorta, maybe?" in the comparison. And no one can agree. The problem is that the factions themselves don't really have any common points to align to. Clans are a group of people who follow a somewhat similar but specific philosophy. Magic colors align with terrain at their root, but generally to either what feels like an elemental force and very broad strokes, and would line up better with the Rings themselves, except that they don't really match. I don't really play magic (used to and stopped), but my friends do, and I think you might be able to align more to one of the Planeswalkers than to one of the colors.
2) A lot of people played L5R because they don't like Magic, or more likely, Magic Players. While it is nice to bring in more people, you are going to upset a lot of Old L5R players by making these comparisons, thus why it is so controversial. Typical Magic Players as a generalization are much different in attitude than those who play L5R, since I think the typical age-range is pretty different.
This reminds me of a DragonCon panel: "Harry Potter and the 7 Ajahs", which was a bunch of people trying to assign Harry Potter characters to the Wheel of Time White Tower Ajahs, and Wheel of Time characters to the Harry Potter houses. I went because my friend really wanted to go, though the point to it was head scratching to me. And people were very passionate about it. Lots of arguing, though I can't remember who they were arguing about.
1 hour ago, Fumi said:Yeah, obviously you're not going to be able to completely summarize an entire clanful of people with only two words. But trying to distill the ethos of a clan down to one word for goals and one word for methods is an interesting thought exercise, at the very least. And it could be useful for new players.
You can, but they don't really follow colors. Where is "Barbarian Horsewomen" on the color wheel?
6 minutes ago, Mirith said:You can, but they don't really follow colors. Where is "Barbarian Horsewomen" on the color wheel?
I think barbarians tend to be Red. And Cavalry and Flying are rather functionally similar so whichever color has a lot of that.
3 minutes ago, shineyorkboy said:I think barbarians tend to be Red. And Cavalry and Flying are rather functionally similar so whichever color has a lot of that.
Could be White or Black too. Or some combination.