The other day someone in my environs remarked to me that there was more Armada going on than X-Wing. I'll have to say that this blew my mind, and I still don't think that it's the case. But, I haven't played X-Wing much in a while, and am not really in tune with the community anymore.

Still, yesterday I grabbed up my X-Wing gear to get a game in down at one of the main haunts on an evening that used to have the most happening X-Wing scene around.

Nobody there.

I asked around, and it does seem like that occasion dried up. The same is true of a different locale&time-slot. The latter I knew, because I used to be the person doing the encouragement, but I have taken that locale&time-slot to do the Corellian Conflict.

With all that anecdotal preface, is it the case that Armada is starting to eclipse X-Wing, or is X-Wing imploding on its own a bit? What are you all seeing?

Locally, the Armada group has been stagnant to the point where I took a break for a couple months (getting back into it with a pile of store championships coming up within a 2 hour drive). We've had some new people pop in for a few weeks or a month before disappearing forever, but mostly it's been the same small group for as long as I've been playing. X wing seems as strong as it's ever been though

I think we got 3-4 new people over the last month that adds to our around 12-ish core of people. Game is slowly growing but no one's leaving. If they do, it's more for personal reasons than because they got tired of the game.

The last X-wing tourney had 5 players

We managed 6

But on any given tourney day X-wing is definitely more popular.

X-wing is still king, but we've seen a definite increase in Armada over the last month or two.

Well, obviously, I'm in your area - I suppose I have a different perception. The Monday night X-Wing crowd has dried up, sure, but weeknights in the PDX area are... always going to be a tough proposition. Since the port closed down, road traffic during the week has been FREAKING BONKERS. The Sunday X-Wing group is still massive. And we recently did the huge Campaign Against Cancer event in the area (across the river in Vantucky)...

Most of the events posted on the new England Armada/xwing/imperial assault Facebook page is x wings or destiny related.

There's a group of X-Wing and Armada players that all meet up regularly. Some just play Armada and some just play X-Wing. From what I've seen, there's been a lot more interest in Armada recently just due to the fact the "faces" of the game group have been playing it a lot more and say it's their game of choice, me being one of these people. Not that I'll completely turn down a game of X-Wing, but I usually am planning my game supplies ahead of time and don't think to bring a squad when I'm already packing 2 or 3 fleets for Armada.

That said, the turnout for tournaments seems opposite. We are happy to have more than 8 Armada players at an event, but we regularly hit 32+ X-Wing players.

Xwing is more popular, but Armada is GROWING

Also I feel like Armada is more BALANCED and that Xwing is starting to look a bit less like STAR WARS because I dont recognize so many ships.

But BOTH are fun.

10 hours ago, xanderf said:

Well, obviously, I'm in your area - I suppose I have a different perception. The Monday night X-Wing crowd has dried up, sure, but weeknights in the PDX area are... always going to be a tough proposition. Since the port closed down, road traffic during the week has been FREAKING BONKERS. The Sunday X-Wing group is still massive. And we recently did the huge Campaign Against Cancer event in the area (across the river in Vantucky)...

Regrettably, I had to miss that one. Just judging by the pictures it seemed to be a pale shadow of earlier cancer tournaments. Or are the pictures deceicing me.

I agree, though, traffic does seem bad, and that might indeed put a damper on things. I was just at the scheduled evenings for a different store (PGS), and it was pretty well attended. So, I guess my fears are not that well founded - which is a good thing. I want X-Wing to continue doing well.

4 hours ago, Mikael Hasselstein said:

Regrettably, I had to miss that one. Just judging by the pictures it seemed to be a pale shadow of earlier cancer tournaments. Or are the pictures deceicing me.

I agree, though, traffic does seem bad, and that might indeed put a damper on things. I was just at the scheduled evenings for a different store (PGS), and it was pretty well attended. So, I guess my fears are not that well founded - which is a good thing. I want X-Wing to continue doing well.

I was there and yes, it was a pale shadow compared to last years cancer tournament, both in player count and prize support.

I have a feeling x-wing is at an in-between point where the recent erratas may have soured the players that were enjoying success with the affected cards, but not all the players that were driven out by those cards dominance have returned yet. It has also been a very long wait for store championship season to return after the new Worlds schedule change, so I think the upcoming store championships will be the real telling point for where the game stands.

I think the Corellian Conflict has led to upswell in new Armada players as predicted by offering a much more casual organized play setting for new players to learn the ropes of a fairly complicated and mentally taxing game where previously competitive tournaments were the only avenue for organized play.

I am a new Armada player, X-wing for about 3 years. The cost kept me out of Armada for the longest time. After getting tournament burn out, and tournaments are the only time I get to play, I started looking for other games, I tried a few and heard that CC was coming out. I lucked into a 95% complete collection for 1/2 of MM/CSI price and jumped into it. CC has helped revamp the local community, but X-Wing is still safely perched at top as king. We just held the annual X-Wing Campaign Against Cancer and there were several core community members that did not make it. I think many are getting tired of 100/6, the meta, the errata and taking a break. If the entry was not so high I think many would jump into Armada; I know a few have jumped into Destiny and they claim to have put less than $100, one guy says $45, into competitive decks.

I don't really understand the entry cost argument. When you get into a game like Armada, no one really plans on buying the core set alone. Compared to X-Wing, I feel like both games are on a similar level in terms of cost when you want to do pretty much anything you want. X-Wings needs you to buy a lot of expansions, Armada, you can focus on just 1 faction if you want. When I looked at how much WH40k cost vs Armada, I felt like Armada was a freaking bargain.

I agree with the entry cost not really being a factor. If I wanted to get into the game right now, I could with the core set play imperials ($100), Arquitens ($20), Imperial Fighter Pack ($20), a gozanti ($20) and an ISD ($50) and play some fairly competitive games, they won't win tournaments but this list will do all right as a base to build out from.

Getting into X Wing at this point and having a fairly competitive rebel list is core set $40, 2nd core set $40, 3 phantoms (for tactician) and 3 K-wings $60. Once again your not going to be winning a lot of tourneys but your going to be competitive in games. This will run you $185.

Not really a lot of difference in buy in.

Both scenes here seem to have stagnated or fallen back. Some of the main X-wing players really burned out on the game after the last Regionals, mainly due to the state of the meta. It's been veeerry quiet as a result. I don't think I've gotten a single game in a store here in the last six weeks.

Armada never really properly took off here, mainly due to the popularity of some other games like X-wing and Bloodbowl stealing all the table time. It was also usually on in competition with one of those, or other tabletop wargames, so it was incredibly hard to tempt people over. Even with the drop in X-wing interest, Armada doesn't seem to be picking up many people. Tournaments are rarely more than 4-player events, and even then are infrequent, as if even one person can't make it, the event kind of falls apart at that stage. I haven't even heard a game being played in my local for months. Last time I got in there for one was before Christmas...

What I've noticed is that it's fairly easy to get someone into X-wing, but much harder to get them into Armada. There's just something much more daunting about Armada that casual players will baulk at. Perhaps it's the game length, or the plethora of upgrades on some ships, or even just the price (the Armada core price has often been cited to me as a barrier of entry), but I've had lots of people walk up to a game in progress, ooh-and-ahh at it, ask a few questions, then quickly walk away again.

11 hours ago, Mikael Hasselstein said:

Regrettably, I had to miss that one. Just judging by the pictures it seemed to be a pale shadow of earlier cancer tournaments. Or are the pictures deceicing me.

The prize support was a bit lighter than last year's - basically a lot of alt-art stuff. The 'top prize' set was pretty cool looking - acrylic versions of an alt-art card was seriously sweet looking. But not nearly as many larger items as they previously had.

Player count seemed in the same ballpark - we had 36 players, out of a cap at 40 (apparently we had the full 40 register, but a few weren't able to make it day-of)

My local FLGS has a quiet Star Wars minis scene, and both seem to be driven by enthusiastic individuals. I got a group together to play the CC, but it fizzled right on its final week and never got finished. My advice is to get yourself playing the game in public, so the game gets some exposure and others can confidently buy in. I haven't been able to find the motivation to beg around for games since the CC, so I'd better get some practice in via Vassal.

In the greater Los Angeles area it's not close; 10:1 X-Wing:Armada is probably understating the ratio by several hundred percent, at least in terms of games played in public. It's certainty a lot closer to like 40:1 in tournament participation, at least at the venues I've been to (overall, and this includes places that tried running Armada tournaments wave 1 but stopped because the community melted away).

4 hours ago, Sybreed said:

I don't really understand the entry cost argument. When you get into a game like Armada, no one really plans on buying the core set alone. Compared to X-Wing, I feel like both games are on a similar level in terms of cost when you want to do pretty much anything you want. X-Wings needs you to buy a lot of expansions, Armada, you can focus on just 1 faction if you want. When I looked at how much WH40k cost vs Armada, I felt like Armada was a freaking bargain.

I can tell you first hand that entry cost is a factor, especially for people new to miniatures that never went through the insane cost of 40K games, and it is probably the perception of cost. There are 3-4 local xwing players that said they would like to play, but the cost. Granted some of these are the same people that buy 2-3 of each expansion, but appearances are that a $40 core, $15-30 expansions is easier than a $100 core and $20-50 expansions. I am in Armada for a fraction of my X-Wing collection and I have a least one of every Armada, most 2 each and I have 5 CR90s. Infrequent and long tournaments are another issue and small community that I think all add up.

I get random people asking about learning Armada, but I also know others who bought in, and never bothered to play are ready to sell locally. So it's a wash. Our X Wing group is good for 8-12 any random monthly tournament with no real change in the last 6 months. We're super not meta for the most part... except that one dude with the bombing K wings. That's a pile of BS!

6 minutes ago, Stasy said:

I get random people asking about learning Armada, but I also know others who bought in, and never bothered to play are ready to sell locally. So it's a wash. Our X Wing group is good for 8-12 any random monthly tournament with no real change in the last 6 months. We're super not meta for the most part... except that one dude with the bombing K wings. That's a pile of BS!

especially since K-Wings don't exist in Armada xD

16 minutes ago, Sybreed said:

especially since K-Wings don't exist in Armada xD

Thank all that is just and right in the world for that...

5 hours ago, Sybreed said:

I don't really understand the entry cost argument. When you get into a game like Armada, no one really plans on buying the core set alone. Compared to X-Wing, I feel like both games are on a similar level in terms of cost when you want to do pretty much anything you want. X-Wings needs you to buy a lot of expansions, Armada, you can focus on just 1 faction if you want. When I looked at how much WH40k cost vs Armada, I felt like Armada was a freaking bargain.

It may be a bargain, but its still *alot of money*.

A smaller initial investment means you are risking less if you dont enjoy the game, the group dries up, etc etc. 25 dollars to get into X-wing vs 80 to get into Armada is a fact, and one that sticks out in the mind.

Ive gotten many people into X-wing by buying them a starter kit, and other games besides- all of them for 50 bucks or less. Once they had that it was an anchor that drew them into the game, gave them something to enjoy and think about and keep it present in their mind so they could get into the experience.

Also: Impulse buys are real. Everyone who thinks of imperial even in passing wants an ISD- but $50 is alot of money. Its a fully functional, if small, DZC or WM/H army. For one model. Those 10-20 dollar prices make it easy to say 'yeah, I dont need to buy beer tonight so I can snag this'. You cant do that with a larger box. You *really* cant do that with the core box. Especially when it comes to the people who have the time to try out new games- students, both late teens and early 20s, and younger folk in general. The people who have that kind of money tend to be in their late 20s or 30s, and have more of a time crunch- I already own nine armies in six game systems, do I want to try this new one for a weeks worth of groceries or stick with what I know?

Its an obstacle.

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I can tell you first hand that entry cost is a factor, especially for people new to miniatures that never went through the insane cost of 40K games, and it is probably the perception of cost. There are 3-4 local xwing players that said they would like to play, but the cost. Granted some of these are the same people that buy 2-3 of each expansion, but appearances are that a $40 core, $15-30 expansions is easier than a $100 core and $20-50 expansions. I am in Armada for a fraction of my X-Wing collection and I have a least one of every Armada, most 2 each and I have 5 CR90s. Infrequent and long tournaments are another issue and small community that I think all add up.

And honestly, Ive found X-wing players to be rather hit or miss with Armada- they tend to enjoy the faster, lighter games that X-wing provides and they tend to expect that theyll need to buy multiples of each expansion for the card upgrades. *Especially* the guys hwo buy 2-5 of everything think that way.

Whereas someone coming over from board games, or non-collectable wargames like 40k or WM/H tend to think of 'I just need to buy the models I want and go from there' which drops the price from $200 in just Blockade Runners and Arquitens to $200 in total.

Right now there seems to be a ton of people looking/wishing for X-Wing 2.0 so there might be a boost of Armada players or they might jump on Destiny or just continue with X-Wing and complain constantly.

I wouldn't count on it. People on the X-wing forum are always calling for an addition/change to be made to the game. There's been a borderline fanatical scream for the Assault Gunboat to be added for years now (I think the thread has something close to 300 pages), and FFG has gone through several waves of ignoring that idea entirely. X-wing players, for all their complaining about ships/balance/pilots will continue to play the game.

I also doubt that anyone leaving X-wing will jump straight to Armada. They're very different games in very different styles. I've seen plenty express passing interest (as one of only a couple in my area that plays both, I get a fair few questions) but little else beyond that.

I can pretty much guarantee you they won't leave X-wing and jump on Destiny. X-wing players rage at dice so often that an entire game based around them is both horrifying and infuriating as a concept alone.