4 minutes ago, Ginkapo said:

If 30 out of 72 people enter Rieekan aces lists and 3 get top 4, is this more or less impressive than 1 of 2 MC30 heavy lists getting top 5?

there's an obvious problem if almost 50% of the competitors go with the same archetype

6 minutes ago, Ginkapo said:

If 30 out of 72 people enter Rieekan aces lists and 3 get top 4, is this more or less impressive than 1 of 2 MC30 heavy lists getting top 5?

I also want to know their matchups. I've had enough success with FT/OE Raiders to be skeptical that the Aceholes are invincible, though I will admit that finding the rest of the winning list still eludes me.

2 minutes ago, Green Knight said:

There is no Rieekan on imp side

Imp players should just git gud.

5 minutes ago, Blail Blerg said:

What wins is what wins. And these are the supposed best in the world.

It's an open competition. Just because it's labelled "Worlds" does not mean the best show up. More like the people with the faster internet connection. Tickets sold out in 20 minutes.

I will admit it is alarming that 3 Rieekan lists are in the top 4. Considering last time one made it and both lists were squad heavy with multiple flotillas.

I expect another massive debate about this topic of squads and flotillas soon. Let me start it off by saying "Taking 2-3+ flotillas is the (tentatively) best thing you can do for your fleet." and "Something needs to change with Rieekan."

10 minutes ago, Undeadguy said:

It's an open competition. Just because it's labelled "Worlds" does not mean the best show up. More like the people with the faster internet connection. Tickets sold out in 20 minutes.

I will admit it is alarming that 3 Rieekan lists are in the top 4. Considering last time one made it and both lists were squad heavy with multiple flotillas.

I expect another massive debate about this topic of squads and flotillas soon. Let me start it off by saying "Taking 2-3+ flotillas is the (tentatively) best thing you can do for your fleet." and "Something needs to change with Rieekan."

hahaha. I know. But hey, the players who lost to squadrons were also very good. I'm going to assume that the squadron players are also very good (as a qualifier that I don't think squadrons are "easy-mode" that any scrub could beat a worlds level player). So, in this case, I think we can make a deduction that the players involved at this point are all relatively good and highly skilled at Armada. (ie. Player skill is near parity in the upper half of the data set, where we can talk about good players losing to good players playing squadrons).

I think that debate will soon begin. What are your actual thoughts?

--

Also do note that 3 of the 4 are _Rieekan_ specifically. One commander. not 3 different rebel commanders. Also currently its only form hearsay that we know that all 3 are Ace squadron lists.

(Also, Ackbar is top tier good but has strong counters from squadrons. good design! very happy about that)

Attempted nuanced discussion.

Quote

I will admit it is alarming that 3 Rieekan lists are in the top 4. Considering last time one made it and both lists were squad heavy with multiple flotillas.

It just confirms what most people knew , excepted a few loudy people constantly saying that everything is fine. I also admit that the balance of Armada is quite good, but you have to be blind to not realize that squadron play and flotillas are over the top. I personally don't think that Rieekan is the problem he just happened to be the best admiral for those kind of list.

Hard to say player skill is near parity when Norm is right near the top again. There is quite a few well known names at the top there, and not many near the bottom.

Quote

Hard to say player skill is near parity when Norm is right near the top again. There is quite a few well known names at the top there, and not many near the bottom.

Agreed , but being good at the game is not only about playing well ,it's also about identifying and choosing what works the best and sometime break the game, as a magic player I know this too well :).

Just to feed the debate:

Are those Riekan fleets the best or just the counter "meta"?

We must wait until all the fleets were spoiled. Waiting for more @shmitty data.

Good night and congratulations for all the players. I hope all you enjoy the worlds despite those kamikazes and zombies.

3 minutes ago, ovinomanc3r said:

Just to feed the debate:

Are those Riekan fleets the best or just the counter "meta"?

We must wait until all the fleets were spoiled. Waiting for more @shmitty data.

Good night and congratulations for all the players. I hope all you enjoy the worlds despite those kamikazes and zombies.

I think they ARE the meta: Mass squadrons and flotillas with BCC. JJ ran a Raider with Flechette and Demo and ISD, and this Imo is a counter meta list. Got defeated by what it was supposed to counter: squadrons.

10 minutes ago, Blail Blerg said:

hahaha. I know. But hey, the players who lost to squadrons were also very good. I'm going to assume that the squadron players are also very good (as a qualifier that I don't think squadrons are "easy-mode" that any scrub could beat a worlds level player). So, in this case, I think we can make a deduction that the players involved at this point are all relatively good and highly skilled at Armada. (ie. Player skill is near parity in the upper half of the data set, where we can talk about good players losing to good players playing squadrons).

I think that debate will soon begin. What are your actual thoughts?

--

Also do note that 3 of the 4 are _Rieekan_ specifically. One commander. not 3 different rebel commanders. Also currently its only form hearsay that we know that all 3 are Ace squadron lists.

(Also, Ackbar is top tier good but has strong counters from squadrons. good design! very happy about that)

Attempted nuanced discussion.

On Flotillas:

I like em. I don't care if they are everywhere. I don't think they are a problem but I do think you need them to be competitive.

On Rieekan:

I don't have much experience playing with him, but what I do know is he is very frustrating to deal with. I said it before and I'll say it again; errata Rieekan so he effects 2 squads per round. I think there is a problem if a ton of people are playing it. I don't like net listing.

Hey where are the lists in the top with dedicated flotilla hunters in them? I thought that was the right meta call, or nah is it just lots of flotillas?

Ok but serious point to preempt the calls that Worlds isn't the best players - for the most part it is. Yes anyone can join and yes plenty of 'average' players do attend but also if you look at the names there are plenty of recognisable big names on there from Regionals/forums/ or previous Worlds. The top results from Worlds are a pretty **** good indicator for the premier of the game.

Im going to hold off full comment but the preemptive word is that 3/4 lists were Riekkan 2+3 heavy squad builds. Make of that what you will but personally I think it speaks for itself.

Just now, ovinomanc3r said:

We must wait until all the fleets were spoiled. Waiting for more @shmitty data.

If anyone is able to gather fleet lists from everyone, then we can compare it to the last Regionals to see what is different.

Out of 15 Regionals we had 2 with all Rebel Top 4s and 1 with an all Imperial Top 4. So, a faction sweep in 1 out of 5. Hard to draw many conclusions without knowing the whole field though.

Hmmmmm Reeikan Aces again eh... Lost to the original at regionals... I still think 6 activations are needed to stop the list. Hmmmm I need to play against it... Wonder who in my area is capable for that

6 minutes ago, Undeadguy said:

On Flotillas:

I like em. I don't care if they are everywhere. I don't think they are a problem but I do think you need them to be competitive.

On Rieekan:

I don't have much experience playing with him, but what I do know is he is very frustrating to deal with. I said it before and I'll say it again; errata Rieekan so he effects 2 squads per round. I think there is a problem if a ton of people are playing it. I don't like net listing.

On flotillas: I like em too! They do many things to help support the fleet.

On Rieekan: Target his lifeboat ASAP! Problem solved...

7 minutes ago, Captain Weather said:

Make of that what you will but personally I think it speaks for itself.

Nah, working as intended.

Does anyone has some serious lists or Infos?

or is this all a blind fishing and guessing?

11 minutes ago, ovinomanc3r said:

Just to feed the debate:

Are those Riekan fleets the best or just the counter "meta"?

We must wait until all the fleets were spoiled. Waiting for more @shmitty data.

Good night and congratulations for all the players. I hope all you enjoy the worlds despite those kamikazes and zombies.

Well I will say. I have played a recent iteration of Brickhaus's Rieekan Aceholes list. IT. IS. TERRIFYING. Gallant haven and braces means your doing at best 1 damage to enemy squadrons under the haven. If not then well it seems like all the squads have plot armor. And just letting the squadrons come to you is just as bad as he moves Haven back in after activation. Rieekan ensures critical strikes on your fleet. I have PTSD from that fleet.....

I like flotillas too. Though, I'm agreeing with people who were suggesting we should get more flotillas very soon, as currently they're pretty shoehorned into very obvious and required roles: Activation fillers (+comms net), BCC carriers (literally happy to add them), slicer tools, squadron pushers, lifeboats. (yknow, actually thats a lot of roles, thats why they're so ubiquitous).

I definitely don't think the meta is healthy with so many squadron lists though.

Rieekan Imo shouldn't work with non-named squadrons, but that's not the primary problem. Primary problem to me is squadrons are the best damage vs everything.

4 minutes ago, Lyraeus said:

Hmmmmm Reeikan Aces again eh... Lost to the original at regionals... I still think 6 activations are needed to stop the list. Hmmmm I need to play against it... Wonder who in my area is capable for that

Come over to Nor Cal. Home of the most vocal for Reeikan Aces being a problem child.

1 hour ago, ripper998 said:

Got pics of the final standings.

While Top 4 was the cut, I am pretty curious about the Top 8 for this one. 3-8 were all within one VP of each other, which is a pretty tight grouping given the size of the field. Even the next 8 players are only off by 2 points.

I really focus on the Top 4 with regionals as it is a good place to spot trends with the smaller tournament sizes. The number of tournaments help build the sample size. With Worlds the number of tournaments is small, but the size of the tournament is large. So, I would open the area of interest to Top 8 or Top 16 to get a bigger sample size to look at.

So, I would be more concerned if Rieekan was 50% of the Top 16 than 75% of the Top 4 if that makes sense.

5 minutes ago, itzSteve said:

On Rieekan: Target his lifeboat ASAP! Problem solved...

This is harder than it seems. Either Rieekan is on a big ship, or it's in the back. Either way, you MUST fly through the swarm of bombers to do anything.

56 minutes ago, Caldias said:

Well, gents, I had a blast. Got 5th overall, missed the cut by 39 MOV. Had a great time and every opponent was a wonderful sport. Shout out to @Vergilius, @Naboobo2000, and @CaribbeanNinja for some great games.

**** son you had a hell of a tournament to play those guys and do that well. Bravo sir. Rough to miss the cut by so small a margin but well played all the same.

1 minute ago, mythics said:

Come over to Nor Cal. Home of the most vocal for Reeikan Aces being a problem child.

I am in Portland Oregon. Close but still far. I am stubborn and would face it with D+O bit I am not sure how i would fair. Likely horrible