3 hours ago, Embir82 said:

And yet just before nerf that murdered him he wasn't dominant in the meta at all.

He wasn't completely dominant, but he was zoning out a lot of low-ps or single-modification ships. Whisper didn't have to win World's in wave 4/5 for her to be the root of the meta cancer. She didn't even have to be the most common. Just a constant threat.

3 hours ago, Stevey86 said:

Dominant? No.
He was a crutch though, just like Biggs. Rarely saw an Imperial list without him.

Biggs makes rebel ships good without making specific other ships unplayable. Palp with any tanky sidekicks made almost all generics with forward arcs unplayable.

What happened to the Firespray list? I knew it did well in the first day, but then no one talked about it.

Any other interesting lists that did better than expected? I like to hear about the odd stuff.

6 minutes ago, TasteTheRainbow said:

Biggs makes rebel ships good without making specific other ships unplayable. Palp with any tanky sidekicks made almost all generics with forward arcs unplayable.

To me it's a balance thing. And by that I mean relative to the rest of the faction, not to everything.

Since Palp's "nerf" you see more of a range of Imperial lists, rather than a reliance on Palp.

Biggs is in a disproportionate amount of Rebel lists, just like JM5Ks and Attanni are in Scum.

1 minute ago, Stevey86 said:

To me it's a balance thing. And by that I mean relative to the rest of the faction, not to everything.

Since Palp's "nerf" you see more of a range of Imperial lists, rather than a reliance on Palp.

Biggs is in a disproportionate amount of Rebel lists, just like JM5Ks and Attanni are in Scum.

More range, yes. But still underperforming.

1 minute ago, SabineKey said:

More range, yes. But still underperforming.

Like I said, balance relative to faction.

Rebels and Scum still have their crutches, and while I don't advocate actually doing this to someone on crutches, FFG really should kick those out from under them.

With lists coming in in list juggler, we are now at 8 out of top 16 with mindlink, 7 out of top 16 with JM4K. 4 lists still not in.

From the lists not yet in juggler (according to reddit):
Kyle Lehmbecker - OldFennaroo (upgrades not known, jm4k)
Marcel Manzano - Tripple scouts (mindlink, jm4k)
Kevin Leintz - Old Fennaroo (mindlink, jm4k)
James Matchett - Dash Miranda

So in total that would make 10 (probably 11 with Kyles list) mindlink lists in T16. Also 10 of the T16 contains JM4k. Scum has 12 out of 16 top spots.

Can someone find/direct me to the RAC setup Tyler Tippet was using? MJ doesn't have it in the main post...

2 hours ago, Keffisch said:

As many as it takes to bring that undercosted ship back under control?

Devs keep missing the mark though, imho - just remove the EPT from the Contracted Scout, Set Manaroo's ability to R2 and bump the JM5K basecost up by 3-4 points, done.

Aaaand now the jumpmaster sees no play at all. Or MAYBE some manaroo. 4 points is too much, 2 is probably good, *maybe* 3. But if you go up 3-4 points AND remove the ept from the scout, it probably gets relegated to the pile of unused generic large ships.

5 minutes ago, Rinzler in a Tie said:

Can someone find/direct me to the RAC setup Tyler Tippet was using? MJ doesn't have it in the main post...

Its on Juggler: http://lists.starwarsclubhouse.com/get_tourney_details?tourney_id=2838

Just now, LucCros said:

Its on Juggler: http://lists.starwarsclubhouse.com/get_tourney_details?tourney_id=2838

Oh nice - thanks, man/ma'am

Personally I'm not convinced that Palp/Aces was a really huge issue. You could still shut them down the Stress, and unblockable damage still crippled them. ( So had the x7 never turned up, they would still be killed by the current meta)

Palp/Defenders however was an issue. Stress did nothing, they had similar token stacks, 3 Shields to laugh off unblockable damage with and then add Palp get out of jail free card

There's always the "winner is overpowered" nonsense after a major tournament, but this year's is certainly more disappointing than usual. The JM being as oppressive as it has been for as long as it has been has left me in a very Wave 4 funk.

3 minutes ago, Shockwave said:

Personally I'm not convinced that Palp/Aces was a really huge issue. You could still shut them down the Stress, and unblockable damage still crippled them. ( So had the x7 never turned up, they would still be killed by the current meta)

Palp/Defenders however was an issue. Stress did nothing, they had similar token stacks, 3 Shields to laugh off unblockable damage with and then add Palp get out of jail free card

Yeah, in general I think the Palp change could be revisted, but the Defenders really needed the hit. Palp might even just need a small tweak upward rather than a full reversion, but its hard to say since those are the kind of details that need the meta to shake out... and probably not have the Scrum problem be so prevalent to know what the "right" change is.

3 hours ago, heychadwick said:

What happened to the Firespray list? I knew it did well in the first day, but then no one talked about it.

Any other interesting lists that did better than expected? I like to hear about the odd stuff.

He lost both games the next day he said sadly

33 minutes ago, LunarSol said:

There's always the "winner is overpowered" nonsense after a major tournament, but this year's is certainly more disappointing than usual. The JM being as oppressive as it has been for as long as it has been has left me in a very Wave 4 funk.

Yeah, in general I think the Palp change could be revisted, but the Defenders really needed the hit. Palp might even just need a small tweak upward rather than a full reversion, but its hard to say since those are the kind of details that need the meta to shake out... and probably not have the Scrum problem be so prevalent to know what the "right" change is.

They went a bit too far nerfing Palp and x7. By themselves both those upgrades aren't too powerful, but put together they were bordering OP. They should have just nerfed one of them and see how it goes.

Just now, Tbetts94 said:

He lost both games the next day he said sadly

Thank you!

1 minute ago, Jo Jo said:

They went a bit too far nerfing Palp and x7. By themselves both those upgrades aren't too powerful, but put together they were bordering OP. They should have just nerfed one of them and see how it goes.

Or, in the case of x7, only made it vulnerable to blocking or stress, rather than both.

Sorry we only got to stream day 1A! I couldn't get the logistics set up to play 1B, and day 2 was a mess in general. Dion's way better anyways

Thanks to everybody that watched, and Duncan for running the ship while I had to play (if you call it that) destiny

4 minutes ago, SabineKey said:

Or, in the case of x7, only made it vulnerable to blocking or stress, rather than both.

I love that we've reached a point where a negative cost upgrade isn't good enough because it doesn't give you free actions when you're blocked or stressed.

Did anyone catch which obstacles Nand had?

16 minutes ago, LunarSol said:

I love that we've reached a point where a negative cost upgrade isn't good enough because it doesn't give you free actions when you're blocked or stressed.

Look at the tournament data.

20 minutes ago, Brunas said:

Sorry we only got to stream day 1A! I couldn't get the logistics set up to play 1B, and day 2 was a mess in general. Dion's way better anyways

Thanks to everybody that watched, and Duncan for running the ship while I had to play (if you call it that) destiny

How'd the self-milling go?

2 minutes ago, SabineKey said:

Look at the tournament data.

I'm not arguing the point; I'm lamenting it.

I would argue the Jump doesn't need an EPT at all.

Just like some Rebel ships can't have access (Ghost/K-Wing) for some reason (probably Attanni) they gave the Jump the full set.

Imagine how broken a Ghost with Finn+ Expose would be. Or Predator, or Expertise, or Expert Handling etc.

Removing the EPT would balance it immensely.

2 hours ago, VanderLegion said:

How'd the self-milling go?

Haha, it was fun, and my opponents had a good time as well.

Had a guy realize I was trying to lose like 2 turns in and try to kill me by not letting me pass and ending the round.

JOKES ON HIM DISCARD HAND END OF TURN BABY

Sad Nathan missed the cut by 30 MOV