27 minutes ago, Johen Dood said:

I'm sure the lack of Imps in high level tables was just a result of Imp players being uncreative and lazy. If only they'd be more creative and create lists that don't suck, Imps would be doing well in the meta.

/s

Can we FINALLY start having a conversation about how f**ked the FAQ was and how it completely obliterated Imps out of the meta for no good reason? Yes Palp and X7 were good, but they were the only things holding the faction together.

The only issue with the FAQ nerfs is it left the Jumpmaster chassis and Mindlink untouched. You don't have those around in their current form, Imperials are in a much better spot.

And let's not act like Palp is absolute garbage now. While Imperials as a whole may be struggling, he was still a key component to one of the top 16 placing lists.

I think one of the things that bugs me most about the Juml is the amount of upgrading it gets. They've built a monster and can't fix it.

Imagine the Ghost or K wings with EPT's for example.

The pilot abilities arent too bad in theory but that chassis does too much. Huge hp pool, agility, a 360 arc, barrel rolls, silly dial etc.

People need to get off the internet and actually play this game. I have been running Palpatine on my Kenkirk, Countdown, and Wampa list before and after the nerf. He is still great. In my 9 games at Hoth, I only had 3 instances where I called an evade and ended up rolling the evade. Yes, I went 5-2 on day one and ended up 6-3 overall in 48th place out of over 300 players. I was 1 of only 2 players that ran Palp at Hoth Open. In my 7 games at World's, it only happened once. The only reason that I didn't do better than 3-4 at World's was because of my own mistakes. One mistake was choosing to try to finish off Inquisitor instead of burning down Major Streidan. The other mistake was getting too aggressive, moving into a bad spot, and failing to burn down Manaroo before I got blocked off the board. Palpatine saved me numerous times this weekend, and ensured that Kenkirk was still on the board at the end of almost every game.

6 minutes ago, Sonikgav said:

I think one of the things that bugs me most about the Juml is the amount of upgrading it gets. They've built a monster and can't fix it.

Imagine the Ghost or K wings with EPT's for example.

The pilot abilities arent too bad in theory but that chassis does too much. Huge hp pool, agility, a 360 arc, barrel rolls, silly dial etc.

Oh, they could fix it easily. But it would require errata that hits the cost and upgrades, maybe even the action bar, which FFG are (somewhat understandably) reluctant to do because it can make tournaments problematic if someone rocks up without knowing about the changes.

I'm going to make a List Juggler entry. Then we can crowdsource filling in all the list details.

Link here:

http://lists.starwarsclubhouse.com/get_tourney_details?tourney_id=2838

3 hours ago, Stay On The Leader said:

It'll be K4 Security Droid next.

Probably.
I really wish they'd stop nerfing everything except the Jumpmaster.

I honestly think Justin's list was just "ok" There are a lot of ways to get around it.

Honestly I think the jump master is undercosted but I hope FFG doesn't change the cost that seems like a bad precedence.

I don't want them to change the upgrade bar or dial either...

what I want is something that is released that makes them way less effective as torp boats. For example I would love to see a torpedo or missile that is an anti-munitions upgrade. Maybe call it "fusion flares" or something.

Look at what turrets did to the game, they pretty much dominated. The fix? Autothrusters. Now an Autothrusters ship is very scare to a turreted ship.

I want the Autothrusters of munitions. Something that effectively lowers their potential, without affecting the game too much. A one time use torpedo upgrade called flares that when you are declared the target of a torpedo or missile upgrade, discard the card to re-roll any number of your defense dice.

Something like that...

Maybe extra munitions will become small ship only as well. That would limit their damage as torpedo boats a bit. They would have to spend an extra point or two for that second torpedo.

11 minutes ago, Sir13scott said:

I honestly think Justin's list was just "ok" There are a lot of ways to get around it.

Honestly I think the jump master is undercosted but I hope FFG doesn't change the cost that seems like a bad precedence.

I don't want them to change the upgrade bar or dial either...

what I want is something that is released that makes them way less effective as torp boats. For example I would love to see a torpedo or missile that is an anti-munitions upgrade. Maybe call it "fusion flares" or something.

Look at what turrets did to the game, they pretty much dominated. The fix? Autothrusters. Now an Autothrusters ship is very scare to a turreted ship.

I want the Autothrusters of munitions. Something that effectively lowers their potential, without affecting the game too much. A one time use torpedo upgrade called flares that when you are declared the target of a torpedo or missile upgrade, discard the card to re-roll any number of your defense dice.

Something like that...

Such a thing would again only be hitting the symptom, rather than the actual problem. Just like the Deadeye nerf, just like the Manaroo nerf. Ordnance isn't overpowered; you don't see TIE Bombers tearing it up anywhere, after all.

The problem is that the Jumpmaster is so broken it makes the pre-nerf Phantom jealous It's long past time FFG stopped mucking around and actually fixed the real problem, unsavory precedents be damned. Else we'll end up nerfing everything anyone ever puts on the stupid thing without ever actually stopping its dominance.

2 minutes ago, DR4CO said:

The problem is that the Jumpmaster is so broken it makes the pre-nerf Phantom jealous, and it's long past time FFG stopped mucking around and actually fixed the real problem, unsavory precedents be damned. Else we'll end up nerfing everything anyone ever puts on the stupid thing without ever actually stopping its dominance.

I disagree it's quite THAT bad. Whisper made the meta nothing but whisper or fat han. Scum has several good lists right now, not all of which actually indclude jumpmaster, and there's been several rebel lists doing very well also. Less so imperial ATM...

1 minute ago, VanderLegion said:

I disagree it's quite THAT bad. Whisper made the meta nothing but whisper or fat han. Scum has several good lists right now, not all of which actually indclude jumpmaster, and there's been several rebel lists doing very well also. Less so imperial ATM...

Rebels seem to be Biggs, Miranda, or both. Scum comes in Attanni action efficiency or alpha strike, and jumpmasters can be in either of those categories, though not required for them.

18 minutes ago, Koing907 said:

Probably.
I really wish they'd stop nerfing everything except the Jumpmaster.

So how do you nerf the jumpmaster exactly? It has no abilities to errata, changing the point cost is a precedent not set by FFG (and one that could cause all sorts of trouble) . It lost just about every upgrade it was able to use from R4- Agromech to dead eye. Attani-mindlink was not in the top list.

2 minutes ago, Marinealver said:

So how do you nerf the jumpmaster exactly? It has no abilities to errata, changing the point cost is a precedent not set by FFG (and one that could cause all sorts of trouble) . It lost just about every upgrade it was able to use from R4- Agromech to dead eye. Attani-mindlink was not in the top list.

R4 is stil fantastiv on the jumpmaster.

10 minutes ago, Marinealver said:

So how do you nerf the jumpmaster exactly? It has no abilities to errata, changing the point cost is a precedent not set by FFG (and one that could cause all sorts of trouble) . It lost just about every upgrade it was able to use from R4- Agromech to dead eye. Attani-mindlink was not in the top list.

You change stats and point costs. It's not a precedent because it's never been necessary before. Now it is, so bite the bullet and get it over with. Nothing else will actually solve the problem.

13 minutes ago, Marinealver said:

So how do you nerf the jumpmaster exactly? It has no abilities to errata, changing the point cost is a precedent not set by FFG (and one that could cause all sorts of trouble) . It lost just about every upgrade it was able to use from R4- Agromech to dead eye. Attani-mindlink was not in the top list.

You don't need to nerf the winning list, you need to nerf the most used combination of cards. If all the scums were like Justin, this game will be great again.

Is when you see 1 Imp and 2 Rebels over 16 players that's means something is wrong.

14 minutes ago, Marinealver said:

So how do you nerf the jumpmaster exactly? It has no abilities to errata, changing the point cost is a precedent not set by FFG (and one that could cause all sorts of trouble) . It lost just about every upgrade it was able to use from R4- Agromech to dead eye. Attani-mindlink was not in the top list.

Making changes to the platform is a problem X-wing has not seen before. Adding the half health ruling on top of introducing counters to the seemingly infalable Fat Han has effectively killed the ship in the upper echelons of competitive play. The one ability that could effectively be errata'd (manaroo) has been. Only way at this point would be to make the title non-unique and make it mandatory for all ships, or leave it unique meaning you could only field one Jumpmaster, and both these solutions create a host of other problems and don't even directly address the issue at hand. So in short, the answer is I have no idea how FFG could fix the jumpmaster at this point.

6 minutes ago, DR4CO said:

You change stats and point costs. It's not a precedent because it's never been necessary before. Now it is, so bite the bullet and get it over with. Nothing else will actually solve the problem.

That would cause more problems than solutions. You might as well go with 2nd ed and phase out the old jumpmaster pilots.

2 minutes ago, Cerve said:

You don't need to nerf the winning list, you need to nerf the most used combination of cards. If all the scums were like Justin, this game will be great again.

Is when you see 1 Imp and 2 Rebels over 16 players that's means something is wrong.

Well that has been done some might say 3 times.

Now while there clearly is a meta hierarchy of Scum > Rebels > Imperials, I will agree with some that it is not as bad as others make it out to be. If it were then we would have either seen no Imperials in the top cut or all scum in the Top 4. Now sure it is a shame that No imperials made it to Top 8. But at least they made it to top cut. Also the final match wasn't a faction mirror so it is not like Scum went unopposed.

5 minutes ago, Marinealver said:

That would cause more problems than solutions. You might as well go with 2nd ed and phase out the old jumpmaster pilots.

Such as? And do not give me the "slippery slope" argument. The game's survived unprecedented erratas before. The Phantom change was unprecedented back in the day.

5 minutes ago, Marinealver said:

Now while there clearly is a meta hierarchy of Scum > Rebels > Imperials, I will agree with some that it is not as bad as others make it out to be. If it were then we would have either seen no Imperials in the top cut or all scum in the Top 4. Now sure it is a shame that No imperials made it to Top 8. But at least they made it to top cut. Also the final match wasn't a faction mirror so it is not like Scum went unopposed.

I'm sorry, but 1/16 representation for a faction is hardly better than 0/16, and 11/16 representation (with what, 2 of those 11 not running the ship in question?) is utterly outrageous. This is a major problem and anyone who thinks otherwise is sticking their heads in the sand.

44 minutes ago, VanderLegion said:

I disagree it's quite THAT bad. Whisper made the meta nothing but whisper or fat han. Scum has several good lists right now, not all of which actually indclude jumpmaster, and there's been several rebel lists doing very well also. Less so imperial ATM...

Is there list data for worlds posted in a semi nice format somewhere? I would love to see the break down of Faction/Ship type/ upgrades used.

1 hour ago, Kdubb said:

The only issue with the FAQ nerfs is it left the Jumpmaster chassis and Mindlink untouched. You don't have those around in their current form, Imperials are in a much better spot.

And let's not act like Palp is absolute garbage now. While Imperials as a whole may be struggling, he was still a key component to one of the top 16 placing lists.

No, not garbage, but still not enough to convince me the Empire is in a healthy place.

1 minute ago, DR4CO said:

Such as? And do not give me the "slippery slope" argument. The game's survived unprecedented erratas before. The Phantom change was unprecedented back in the day.

I'm sorry, but 1/16 representation for a faction is hardly better than 0/16, and 11/16 representation (with what, 2 of those 11 not running the ship in question?) is utterly outrageous. This is a major problem and anyone who thinks otherwise is sticking their heads in the sand.

That unprecedented errata did not come without a significant backfire and its own problems. Sure Star Wars is immensely popular now even more so than the prequel days. Even now with all the errata many cards have been invalidated and people either have to list it or carry around a current FAQ with them at all times. It was a horrible practice. If everything on the card was up to change then why even bother having them in the first place? You should just go to a book or codex or something instead.

And I did acknowledged that Scum is currently ascendant. But you are trying to make it sound that the only faction in the top cut was Scum. Imperials made it into the top cut and with an old Wisper RAC build no less. Now if it was 11/16 scum and top 4 was all scum, then sure that is a bigger problem but even the final match was not a face off between the biggest scum

Scum even though it is dominant it is not unopposed in the meta .

1 minute ago, SabineKey said:

No, not garbage, but still not enough to convince me the Empire is in a healthy place.

It is not. Not because the ships aren't good, but because Scum and Rebels have overpowered **** and Imperials no longer do.

35 minutes ago, Marinealver said:

So how do you nerf the jumpmaster exactly? It has no abilities to errata, changing the point cost is a precedent not set by FFG (and one that could cause all sorts of trouble) . It lost just about every upgrade it was able to use from R4- Agromech to dead eye. Attani-mindlink was not in the top list.

I don't care what they do or don't do to the Jumpmaster, specifically the Contracted Scout. I do care that more upgrade cards are likely to be FAQed because of the **** ship.

Just now, Koing907 said:

I don't care what they do or don't do to the Jumpmaster, specifically the Contracted Scout. I do care that more upgrade cards are likely to be FAQed because of the **** ship.

yeah, more pen & ink errata nerfs would not be healthy for the game. But again what else would be nerfed? Giving the Atanni Mindlink the small ships only restriction?

2 minutes ago, Tbetts94 said:

It is not. Not because the ships aren't good, but because Scum and Rebels have overpowered **** and Imperials no longer do.

Basically. The anti-ace craze went too far, making most aces (imperial ones in particular) too risky to fly. Palp helped keep them relevant, but not in his current condition. x7's would be fine if not for all the stress running around, making them iffy too. From what I've seen, the /sf is the most solid imperial ship currently, but it is a solid ship rather than a fantastic one.