So, I've had a random bug in my brain to try and replicate the stereotypical "mystic monk" or Shaolin Monk from pop culture. Obviously the bald human bit isn't a requirement, but the theme is what I'm more interested in. At first, I thought going with the F&D Warrior career seemed to be perfect, except, it's really not. None of the talents that I scanned through really help with brawl, and don't capture the feel of the Shaolin. And then I thought about it, and in the books I own (which isn't a lot), I don't recall a good brawl focused build. And I'm not sure how to replicate the "mystic monk" side, other than just picking Force powers and leaving it at that.

So, any ideas? A good career/spec to pick, that actually gives Brawl checks some heft? And some specific Force powers, that you think might help to replicate some of the more signature powers Shaolin monks tend to display in movies/tv? I can't find any kind of "5 Finger Death Punch" or similar ways to augment a brawl attack with mystic power, and I'm not even sure if the system allows for what seems like doing 2 actions at once.

So yeah, any concepts and builds that you all think might fit? It's mostly just a fun/idle thought experiment, something I do a lot of with RPG systems, find ways to replicate some of the archetypes from our modern mythology of heroes. But I also might play him at some point in a pbp or whatever.

Thanks.

Guardian/Warden, as long as you skirt around the Coercion stuff. Cross with Bounty Hunter/Martial Artist, and add Enhance for maximum effect.

Pretty much what blackbird said, but sprinkle in some marauder for more oomph behind your punches.

Go marauder/martial artist for non-mystical monk... Still hits really hard with no enhance.

Or go warden, and then hermit or something else to supe up force dice to boost enhance. No specific talents, but just max out enhance and brawl...

Don't have my books in front of me, so I can't check Warden, but what about that tree is so fitting? What is the general theme of the talents?

And that's a good idea, going for heavy investment in Enhance, to replicate the mystical aspect of the monk archetype. I'd probably mix it with mystic or sage, just to give it the more "wise person" feel, but also for the high force rating early on.

8 minutes ago, KungFuFerret said:

Don't have my books in front of me, so I can't check Warden, but what about that tree is so fitting? What is the general theme of the talents?

And that's a good idea, going for heavy investment in Enhance, to replicate the mystical aspect of the monk archetype. I'd probably mix it with mystic or sage, just to give it the more "wise person" feel, but also for the high force rating early on.

Warden is pretty much an unarmed combat specialist for Force users. Two of the talents which it has that are specifically geared towards unarmed combat are Precision Strike and Grapple . It also includes Overbalance . A good complement to Warden- to add even more unarmed combat ability-is the Martial Artist spec from the Bounty Hunter career.

I would start with Soresu Defender, the left and right column are very fitting and Knowledge Lore is excellent, but I would also get Martial Artist straight away for the Unarmed Parry talent. The "Supreme Precision Strike" talent is the closest thing to a 5 finger death punch right now.

Then I would add the Sage spec, although Ascetic in the upcoming Disciples of Harmony could be a very fitting pairing too.

Force Powers would be Enhance for Athletics, Coordination, Brawl, Resilience and the Leap upgrades. Also the Foresee power fits very well.

2 hours ago, Richardbuxton said:

I would start with Soresu Defender, the left and right column are very fitting and Knowledge Lore is excellent, but I would also get Martial Artist straight away for the Unarmed Parry talent. The "Supreme Precision Strike" talent is the closest thing to a 5 finger death punch right now.

Then I would add the Sage spec, although Ascetic in the upcoming Disciples of Harmony could be a very fitting pairing too.

Force Powers would be Enhance for Athletics, Coordination, Brawl, Resilience and the Leap upgrades. Also the Foresee power fits very well.

Soresu isnt as good as you might think, the improved parry (and supreme as a result) are a bit of a red herring when it comes to fighting unarmed, as the strikes you get from improved parry are done at base damage , so your brawn and nothing else (note unarmed parry you cant even use a brawl weapon so you would only do Brawn less soak damage, which often against non minions would be zero damage). Even pierce melee weapons technically dont benefit from pierce so a breach weapon like a lightsaber or morgukai staff is needed if you want to benefit from Soresu.

As a result Shi-Cho , which has the same amount of ranks of parry and more other supporting talents in comparison.

I was also looking at Defensive Stance and Knowledge Lore as part of the mix. Sure Shi-Cho has some great talents, the entire top 2 rows are excellent, but Shi-Cho lacks defensive talents and also has a lot of talents that don't work with a completely unarmed character. The last Parry and Dedication are buried a long way into the tree with at least a 20xp talent that's useless.

I was seeing Soresu as a nice way to start out, but mostly offering the thematic "defence not offence, use your head first before you muscles"

But both could be used equally, they just offer different directions.

You would want Consular Aesetic Hermit Martial Artist and Teacher

Consular/niman-disciple martial artist with a repulse fist (so defensive training always applies) mix martial arts with telekinetic lightsaber,

2 hours ago, Decorus said:

You would want Consular Aesetic Hermit Martial Artist and Teacher

I think that's a bit too much cross-speccing for my tastes. I'm totally comfortable with having some aspect simply be roleplaying behavior, and not everything statistics. I think, at least for starts, I'll probably look at Sage/Martial Artist. I think that might have the right combination I need. The Sage bits for the "wisdom" and force rating boosts so my Enhance will be terrifying, and the Martial Artist for...well...obvious reasons

Sadly I don't have the book the MA is in, so I'll have to research that elsewhere. Is it in No Disentegrations? And is that out yet? I don't buy everything they make, especially for a Career that I normally find no interest in, namely Bounty Hunter.

49 minutes ago, EliasWindrider said:

Consular/niman-disciple martial artist with a repulse fist (so defensive training always applies) mix martial arts with telekinetic lightsaber,

No lightsaber for this concept, if he has to put a beat down, he's doing it with his fists and feet. Though he's not above using brawl weapons to trigger any kind of talents.

7 hours ago, Richardbuxton said:

I was also looking at Defensive Stance and Knowledge Lore as part of the mix. Sure Shi-Cho has some great talents, the entire top 2 rows are excellent, but Shi-Cho lacks defensive talents and also has a lot of talents that don't work with a completely unarmed character. The last Parry and Dedication are buried a long way into the tree with at least a 20xp talent that's useless.

I was seeing Soresu as a nice way to start out, but mostly offering the thematic "defence not offence, use your head first before you muscles"

But both could be used equally, they just offer different directions.

yes, but other than the 4 ranks of parry, you have to buy through both supreme parry and soresu techniqje , which for a brawler is useless also, so you spend 160 for parry 4, defensive stance 2, and dedication. Whereas every talent , excepting natural blademaster is useful for a brawler in the shi cho tree, at least out of those you have to buy. Even that could be useful

I did say both are good options didn't I?

Th OP has made it clear Brawl (Unarmed) and Brawl Weapons are the tools this character is to use. Unarmed Parry has been clarified to be specifically for characters with at least 1 hand free, and Brawl weapons don't count. For that reason Supreme Parry does have an excellent purpose. But it also serves a purpose that Unarmed Parry still costs 2 Strain. Defensive Stance is an excellent talent for triggering Overballance.

Shi-Cho has definitely got some excellent talents, Multiple Opponents is a great one, so is Second Wind. But because the OP doesn't want Sabers or Melee there are a couple of useless talents, Natural Blademaster and Sarlac Sweep in particular.

In the end the major difference is:

Second Wind + Multiple Opponents + Defensive Training, with about 235xp worth of useful talents

vs

Defensive Stance x 2 + Supreme Parry with 160xp worth of useful talents.

So the question is how important are those ranks of Parry, and what side benefits does the character want? Well from what KFF said it's neither! But this game is like that with so many cat skinning methods

i originally compared the two specs but ultimately im curious as to how supreme parry works for a brawler, because no matter how I look at it, I couldn't figure out how to make it work with unarmed.

Well, after reading the responses, I might be willing to do a little melee, like maybe a quarterstaff or something. I still prefer the unarmed, if only for the aesthetic of the concept, but if there just isn't a good talent spec for unarmed, then I might have to make some allowances for the rules.

If there is some good Unarmed build that is equal to the various melee ones, then I am all ears, but if not, he might just have to thwack people with a stick.

there are several talents and abilities that bring unarmed dmg to the equivalent of melee. Deadly accuracy can be used with both. Martial Grace from the martial artist spec gives you dmg =coordination ranks for 2 strain so up to +5 dmg but its strength is doing crits to control your opponent . Enforcer allows you walk the walk to get a similar deal only it uses streetwise ranks for a destiny point spend. The warden can use enhance to use force dice to boost dmg, these last three are brawl only , lastly there is the doctor pressure point which if you elect to cause strain will bypass soak and add medicine ranks to the damage, with all of these it is the melee character that is falling behind dmg wise.

To make a Jedi who fights unarmed you have to delve into some classes like Doctor/Martial Artist I think.

The Ascetic class from the upcoming Consular book is probably going to be a perfect fit too.

Also ask your DM if you can replace finding lightsaber crystals with finding an Amulet of Iron Fists. That thing makes it half way possible to compete with a lightsaber wielding Jedi.

I think if your looking to get a bit more bang for your buck, then picking up seer or sage can provide some very powerful force rating boosts that will make brawn better, but also allow you to intermingle force use with brawlling. One of the assumptions I make is that non-jedi characters should also receive something that is valuable to their particular orientation. after all a Gand might be taught by a Gands Findsman and be given particlar tools that greatly enhance seek in some manner.

For those dedicated to the way of the fist, I would raise a disapproving eyebrow at denying them a Iron Fist Talisman. It effectively removes their need to parry though as a DM I would restrict item usefulness depending on the person (e.g. A jedi would find a gand's findmans's tools worthless without proper training. Likewise while the Jedi are committed to their bodies, their lack of attachments make a ***** totem like these almost below their interest) just so people don't stack up on force artefacts. Having these gauntlets on really removes your need of parry at all and allows you to focus on your career/chasing a force rating.

So I'm listening to the O66 podcast about No Disintegrations, and hearing the concept of the MA, I definitely think that's the combat spec for this concept. Sage/Martial Artist. Given it's heavy focus on Unarmed, it's right up my alley.

Though I do have a question, they mentioned a talent for MA that is also in the....Dancer spec? Or maybe it was called Entertainer? I think it was called Coordinated Defense? I don't have either source book for either of these specs, so I'm a little lost here. Can someone please elaborate on what this talent is? Max Brook described it as being somewhat important for the concept, as I'm guessing they assume the MA defends himself by getting out of the way in a Coordinated manner.

The talent is called Coordination Dodge, when your character is targeted by a combat check you may flip a Destiny Point to add failure to that check equall to your ranks in Coordination.

So if you have 3 ranks in Coordination you add 3 Failure to the other characters roll, if you flip a Destiny point.

Oooooh...that sounds very sexy. Yeah, I think I'm liking Martial Artist more and more Dangit, now I have to buy another supplement book for just one entry! Grr!

Do you flip the DP and add the failures before the attack is rolled? Or is this an after the fact kind of thing to turn a hit into a miss? I'm assuming it's before the roll, so it's already got a negative result built up.

Yep, before. And you can use it against any attack, including Ranged or Gunnery!

There is another talent that lets you suffer 2 Strain to add damage equal to ranks in coordination to your next Brawl check. So there's multiple reasons to have a lot of ranks in Coordination.

One Force Power that would really fit the character well is Sense, 2 upgrades to the difficulty to attack you really help trigger Overbalance which can be devastating to opponents.

The Warden's Baleful Gaze is good for triggering overbalance as is sense advantage , also fearsome , if the fear chexk is successful they get an encounter long setback, finally if you buy into aggressor terrify can help trigger disorient whick stacks wjth all of that. Given that between Warden and Aggressor you can get 5 ranks of fearsome , not particularly Shaolin, but can work as some martial art forms are designed to scare your opponent before you even start fighting, or you can narrate that their very presence is frightening , or their reputation precedes them. Adding 4 or 5 setback to the roll and upgrading the check 7 times ( between Baleful Gaze and sense) that should be more than enough.

The destiny point requirement is less of an issue since you have access to precision strike, if you roll a crit you dont like you can just spend 1 strain and choose the crit that flips a DP your way and as long as you roll enough advantage for the crit.(vibroknucklers are handy for that,)