2 hours ago, Stay On The Leader said:

Yes, definitely. I think Runewars double dial system is the dry run for X-Wing 2.0. Release for Christmas 2017?

I wouldn't be surprised.

Runewars Miniatures is my X-wing 2.0. I still love this game, but if they try to throw a 2.0 at me in the next two years, I'm going to say, "Thanks, but no thanks: I'm already playing your awesome rank-and-file war game in the realm of Terrinoth."

1 hour ago, iamfanboy said:

I can understand getting peeved, but if they do a 2.0 you might want to hold off on the salt til you see if it's better or not.

I don't care how much better it is, I'm not spending $100's on a 2nd edition, period. There's plenty of other games out there, once which when a new edition comes out I don't have to rebuild my whole collection to play again.

If the only way to get the updated cards is by buying a 2.0 version of an existing ship, then FFG has lost me (and a lot of other people) as a customer. Any other system, like card only packs or something would depend greatly on the cost. More than about a $1 per ship, and I'd most likely be out.

But let me make it crystal clear, if I have to buy a duplicate of any ship I already own, then I'm done with this game.

1 hour ago, iamfanboy said:

As far as not needing to spend a lot of money to upgrade stuff for WM and Malifaux... that depended.

All the models are still valid, even if they're not ideal so it's not even remotely the same thing. No one had to buy another copy of an existing model they owned in order to play in 2nd edition.

Sure the new models in Malifaux may of looked better, but you weren't forced to buy them, and that's the point where myself and many others will jump ship.

Even with 40k, you may not of found your list worked as well, but you didn't have to buy another box of tactical marines or a dreadnaught to keep playing. With 8th edition, it's the same thing, your list may not work the same but you don't have to rebuy stuff you already own to keep playing.

Anyone trying to claim the change to 8th edition and a 2nd edition X-Wing are even remotely similar are either not thinking or are not being honest.

20 minutes ago, Marinealver said:

Also for those that are calling for the Falcon to go to a mobile firing arc can just stop posting it had 2 turrets, not one , so it can fire in all directions. If it did go to Mobile firing arcs then it would have to have 2 attacks and still shoot out of arc.

I think you are missing the point on this. Its not the Falcon specifically, but an overhaul/removal of the Turret system in X-Wing that is being requested. All Primary Weapon Turrets would be replaced with Mobile Firing Arcs. Many people feel the PWT mechanic was improperly done/NPE and the Mobile Firing Arc is a more enjoyable game mechanic.

Its not the number of guns on the ship that matters. Heck, the VT-49 and K-wing have multiple turrets on them and would also be Mobile Firing Arc if the change was implemented.

I think the smartest way to do a 2.0 would be a stickers and paper expansion similar to the Armada campaign. It would be way cheaper than reprinting cardboard and would basically let you freely edit just about anything of merit.

Instead of a complete overhaul they should just focus on a big balance pass pack.

1. Update point costs when needed. (maximum amount of cards able to be fielded should be provided)

2. Update dials when needed. (maximum amount of dials able to be fielded should be provided)

3. Update upgrade cards. (maximum amount of cards able to be fielded should be provided)

4. Provide an updated rule book.

5. Provide the updated or a new damage deck.

The rules are for the most part very solid. They could try and see if they could find a way to implement the varying initiative from Runewars if they so desire. But this is not really needed.

20 minutes ago, Vargas79 said:

Calm down, it was a joke.

I personally thought it was a pretty funny joke, playing off how many cards have been "fixed" to rein in the JumpBastard ... and it still hasn't worked.

3 minutes ago, kris40k said:

I think you are missing the point on this. Its not the Falcon specifically, but an overhaul/removal of the Turret system in X-Wing that is being requested. All Primary Weapon Turrets would be replaced with Mobile Firing Arcs. Many people feel the PWT mechanic was improperly done/NPE and the Mobile Firing Arc is a more enjoyable game mechanic.

Its not the number of guns on the ship that matters. Heck, the VT-49 and K-wing have multiple turrets on them and would also be Mobile Firing Arc if the change was implemented.

I missed the point , seriously PWT has been part of X-wing since Wave 2. It wasn't until the OP Phantoms came out that it became a thing.

2.0 will still have 360 primary turrets and turret upgrade secondary weapons as the rest of X-wing.

If you don't like Turrets, Well there's a Star Wars ship game called Armada and it has no turrets , and needs players.

Yes, I would be for it. There are allot of things that as I played the game over the years I slowly identified as weak points in it's design and looking at how their subsequent games have developed after learning these lessons it's plain to me that a second rendition of the game could make allot of improvements. Armada learned that you identify weapons by dice types and then upgrades interact with those dice and that more upgrade types allow you to better control interaction. I believe X-wing would be advanced by miles if it adopted some features back from games that came after it and even a few that came before.

Attack dice in three types: Lasers, Ordinance, Ion (and other effect weapons like Mangler and flechette). This one from Armada

Defense dice in two types: Agility and Armor. This is pulled from Imperial Assault

Repositioning maneuvers Incorporated into planning. See Rune Wars.

Make use of exhaust and refresh of cards mechanic. From Almost every other FFG game, bizarrely.

Make use of keywords. Any game but ours basically.

More upgrade types to control and customize ships, like engines being a distinct slot, gunners being different from copilots, that kind of thing. Also Armada.

How we interpret the turret, I guess from listening to the fan base needs addressed, though maybe not after these changes.

Admittedly at such point the game is not just 2.o but more like a X-wing Advanced type... And you know if that was the case I'd pick that up too.

3 minutes ago, Jeff Wilder said:

I personally thought it was a pretty funny joke, playing off how many cards have been "fixed" to rein in the JumpBastard ... and it still hasn't worked.

Seriously. It's like the elephant in the room. FFG keeps nerfing cards around the problem and not looking at the glaring problem right there in front of them.

Just throw a different table cloth on it and hope no one notices again.

47 minutes ago, VanorDM said:

But let me make it crystal clear, if I have to buy a duplicate of any ship I already own, then I'm done with this game.

Wow, you haven't been playing since Imperial Aces and you're still on these boards?? Shoot, they made us all buy TWO copies of the TIE Interceptor that we already owned. . .then followed that up with 3 more duplicate ship packs.

Each one of those releases is X-Wing 2.0 for that ship . It made that ship much better, and did not invalidate anything that came before it. Wouldn't it be nice if they did that for the game as a whole??

Second Edition needs.

1. The new rule book has to include the FAQs. It is also a fact of life that once we get a new rule book there will always be FAQs, it is the nature of the beast. We do not need to change rules just to change them, we can correct existing problems and add new rules and clarifications, but not change because we don’t like a rule, remember just because we don’t like it does not make it a bad rule. There are several I don’t like, but you live with them.

2. The present ship models have to be viable, not to say that FFG could not release new versions of each as they already have with many models.

3. If they feel there are ships that need dial upgrades then. Dials: Release a dial upgrade kit, all we need is the movement side to replace the current one. I now use the plastic dial upgrades on most of my dials now. I have about 6 to 8 for each faction. They are easily change out for different ships.

4. Base cardboard updates. Create a generic base card for each ship, put 2 to 4 in a base upgrade kit. We would not need 1 for each pilot skill or unique pilot. Get the pilot values off of the pilot card.

5. Pilot cards: For those pilots that need to be changed, change their value, skills or whatever and issue new cards as with Poe. The Jumpmaster for instance, change the ship value if you think it is wrong if it is under costed raise it. Not all pilots are a problem.

6. Upgrade cards: I don’t believe we need to delete any cards. Granted many are not used, mainly because they are either too situational or they is just a better option. The key with upgrade cards as with pilot cards, is to get the inter-action in the game defined, to get the correct cost and to get any updated cards out.

7. The cards will require as much as many don’t care for it a card update kit.

8. So in effect we are looking at minimum 4 upgrade kits: dials, bases, pilot cards, upgrade cards. This does not include the new rule book.

9. I am not convinced we need new dice with new values. New dice with new values might add more variety, but would that mean chancing the damage deck. As we add new ships and skills adding to the damage deck might become necessary, but right now it seems to work fine in comparison to the original deck. New cards might be added to the deck as individual upgrades to counter new additions to the game.

33 minutes ago, ForceSensitive said:

Attack dice in three types: Lasers, Ordinance, Ion (and other effect weapons like Mangler and flechette). This one from Armada

Defense dice in two types: Agility and Armor. This is pulled from Imperial Assault

Repositioning maneuvers Incorporated into planning. See Rune Wars.

I think there is a lot of merit in these first two concepts though you could easily use the same items in the case of dice with appropriate paper mods but obviously there is an elegance to dice.

As to using a double dial format... Not sure... it feels thematic in Runewars as you are essentially the general commanding your army. In X-wing the pilots are flying themselves around and you are just a substitute for each of their brains so allowing them to dogfight "on the fly" makes more sense.

To avoid angering me, a second edition would have to:

a) allow me to use all my existing models, competitively, immediately

b) for real cheap.

It would be very tempting to ignore the second edition and just buy first edition ships and cards for cheap now that they're no longer in demand (if the new game invalidated them, they would presumably become cheap; if the new game did not invalidate them, it would presumably be affordable to get into).

1 hour ago, Sekac said:

Warhammer 40k is a much, much, much bigger game and it's in the process of changing over to its 8th edition this summer.

Difference is I could use my second edition Eldar Howling Banshees models because they are just models; all I'd need is an 8th edition of the core rules and Eldar Codex. FFGs models are are closely tied to the cards and manoeuvre dial they come with making big rule/mechanic changes harder. It can be done (FFG did it with Descent) but it is more difficult.

At the moment I don't think the game needs it. Maybe a 1.5? Re-prints of all the errata'd cards and a consolidated rule book would probably be useful at this point.

I'm sick of hearing people complain about turrets and how broken they are. Is the ability to attack ships all around you a little unfair? Maybe. But no TIE fighter has a 90-degree firing arc in a movie. EVERY ARC ON EVERY SHIP IS EXAGGERATED TO MAKE GAMEPLAY QUICKER AND EASIER. If this game seems too easy, I wish people would just go play something else. I've actually started avoiding this forum due to the amount of talking about how bad and imbalanced the game is. If you want a perfectly balanced game, you're out of luck, because you won't find it anywhere. Even in chess, somebody gets to go first.

If they do an X-Wing 2.0, I will not buy it. I've already spent thousands of dollars on this game. Fool me once...

I will say, I would probably remove the specifics from the base inserts. Not saying they're useless; but all they REALLY need is the firing arcs (and arguably not even that....). The amount of info they currently have hurts the game's flexibility a fair bit. Also, they're really, really miserable to manage, IMO.

Everytime this topic comes up I hear people complain about REALLY minor stuff. I dont think these justify a second edition. A lot of changes could just be implemented by one cardboard only update box or yet another core set. New dice, new templates, some new tokens, one rulebook and a lot of cards. The trick would be to remove some old cards as well.

I'm 100% on board with X-Wing 2.0. Don't even care if I have to buy a bunch of crap all over again. I love this game, but right now, I love it despite everything that's wrong with it. I'd much rather just have a good game.

1 hour ago, kris40k said:

https://warhammer40000.gw-hub.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2017/04/New-Edition-of-40K-FAQ.pdf

Sounds pretty "mea culpa" to me as they are making changes based on the community feedback of their game. Games Workshop has been changing over the last few years, its not the same like it was back in 1st or 2nd Ed.

You're probably right, they might have changed (which is why Necromunda is coming back again, with a new name). But they even mention cost in the faq.... they haven't changed in my opinion, they have however go better at "engaging" with the community, especially when it can give them the excuse to make annual (costed) updates in addition to releasing a new ruleset.

I admit, I am a cynic and have been with regards to GW for many years. At the same time they were the go to system when I got into wargaming in 1987, it it hadn't been for them it would have been Napoleonics for me...

It's mostly a guess, but I think that if a 2nd edition is made, it will not invalidate the existing materials and certainly not the models. Maybe one needs to play with a huge update document to make the old versions of cards work, but if that is a free download you don't need to buy everything again.

And this is assuming such an edition will be made at all.

So the responses in the vein 'I spent XXXX and will not do so again so I am not going to buy a 2nd edition' seem very premature indeed. In fact, I predict most who respond in said manner will, in fact, buy into a new edition.

And the situation would not be that different from the current. Because of power creep, any player who wishes to be competitive against the larger body of X-Wing players has to spend money on new stuff. So you're always urged to spend more, and it is not a given that a 2nd edition will be more expensive in comparison.

If you're afraid that the old material can be trashed with a 2nd edition - wake up, this has already happened: we are sitting on piles of underpowered cards that have been replaced by better ones .

11 minutes ago, Verlaine said:

If you're afraid that the old material can be trashed with a 2nd edition - wake up, this has already happened: we are sitting on piles of underpowered cards that have been replaced by better ones .

Part of me looks forward to a second edition just to see someone super upset that there's no Flight Instructor card replacement in the new version.

2 minutes ago, LunarSol said:

Part of me looks forward to a second edition just to see someone super upset that there's no Flight Instructor card replacement in the new version.

Part of me looks forward to a second edition just to see a ******* playable version of Flight Instructor.

My favorite idea along these lines is to divorce the game from many of the fiddly bits.

Imagine a 2.0 rule book with updated ship stats and all current (corrected, tweaked, errata-ed) upgrade options.

From that point onward, the game is played using "character sheet" like ship rosters. Forget *all* the cards. No ship/pilot cards, no upgrades, no rules cards, etc.

The game would then be a "regular" miniatures game instead of a hybrid board game/card game like it is now.

The problem with this? It's not FFG's style. They like to make stuff. Lots of stuff. Bits, cardboard, custom dice, etc. It would be harder to monetize and potentially more difficult to justify the pricing structure. They also would be more open to outside companies adding to the game (without the need to print cards and cardboard, the barrier for competitors would seem to be lowered.)

Another nice thing for us (bad for FFG) is this would eliminate the need to buy unwanted expansions just to get the upgrade cards. This alone probably ensures that FFG wouldn't go this route.

I am not sure I like the idea fully, myself. But I have wondered what it would be like to reconfigure all the upgrades into a list a la Feats from D&D/Pathfinder.

I'm on the side of "if I need all new miniatures I'll take my money elsewhere". With all the current ships, including multiple copies of many, I imagine a lot of us have in the area of $1000 invested into FFG models. I'm not jumping on a train towards spending that much again to pick up replacements for the models I already own, and I also don't want to start over at wave 1 with X-Wings vs TIEs and everything else is illegal until the new replacement model and cards are available for sale. I don't think a 2.0 like that is very likely though. I don't think FFG would start from scratch or do any massive overhauls for a 2.0 because it would be such a troublesome thing to make massive changes without invalidating their product (honestly I'm fairly sure they don't want to do a 2.0 at all for this reason).

If they were to release a sticker pack, dials, cards, and cardboard pack, or sell a rulebook with changes it would be easier to take as a consumer. If they want to slash and burn that's their right too, there's plenty else to do with the money I've sunk into this hobby.

15 minutes ago, evanger said:

My favorite idea along these lines is to divorce the game from many of the fiddly bits.

Imagine a 2.0 rule book with updated ship stats and all current (corrected, tweaked, errata-ed) upgrade options.

From that point onward, the game is played using "character sheet" like ship rosters. Forget *all* the cards. No ship/pilot cards, no upgrades, no rules cards, etc.

The game would then be a "regular" miniatures game instead of a hybrid board game/card game like it is now.

The problem with this? It's not FFG's style. They like to make stuff. Lots of stuff. Bits, cardboard, custom dice, etc. It would be harder to monetize and potentially more difficult to justify the pricing structure. They also would be more open to outside companies adding to the game (without the need to print cards and cardboard, the barrier for competitors would seem to be lowered.)

Another nice thing for us (bad for FFG) is this would eliminate the need to buy unwanted expansions just to get the upgrade cards. This alone probably ensures that FFG wouldn't go this route.

I am not sure I like the idea fully, myself. But I have wondered what it would be like to reconfigure all the upgrades into a list a la Feats from D&D/Pathfinder.

A lot of minis games are migrating to apps for just this reason. That certainly would not be out of FFG's style.