4 minutes ago, Snipafist said:

And I think she's going to be fun with smaller ships that can't stack many command tokens anyways. Nebulon-Bs in particular are going to be legit with Leia. She may be too expensive to see much use at 400, but we'll see...

No... They really won't. At least the way I fly Nebs. I like to start with an Engineering token and then a Nav but Yavaris likes a Squadron token and Salvation likes Raymus.

My Nebs like to use a command and have the ability to shift shields or speed up.

@Green Knight and @Drasnighta, can we get a call on this combination question before the start of the tournament please?

6 minutes ago, Undeadguy said:

Right but you are getting the effect of spending a token and dial. But we already have a rule that says you can spend a token with the dial to get a combined effect.

Leia and dial = combined effect
Token and dial = combined effect

You can't get 2 combined effects.

Where in the rules does it state that you can't get both?

4 minutes ago, Lyraeus said:

No... They really won't. At least the way I fly Nebs. I like to start with an Engineering token and then a Nav but Yavaris likes a Squadron token and Salvation likes Raymus.

My Nebs like to use a command and have the ability to shift shields or speed up.

Leia is a force multiplier that increases utility in a specific area (each activation) at the cost of flexibility. Value is going to depend entirely on personal playstyle and fleet composition.

Just now, ManInTheBox said:

Leia is a force multiplier that increases utility in a specific area (each activation) at the cost of flexibility. Value is going to depend entirely on personal playstyle and flee composition.

The Nebs don't need the force multiplier typically. They need flexibility though.

My issue is that she is as expensive as Ackbar but her ability is far far weaker. It won't be good. Let us know how you fare though

3 minutes ago, Lyraeus said:

Where in the rules does it state that you can't get both?

The rules state: "A ship can spend both a command dial and a command token to combine their effects."

It's reasonable to take "a command token" to mean a single command token. Otherwise it would have to say "one or more command tokens".

I'm guessing there will need to be an FAQ to settle it for certain.

I still suspect that she might stack. E.g. with Ray Antilles, or just another token available from some other source, e.g. comms net. But I could be wrong.

The card only speaks of spending a dial "as if" you had also spend a matching token. However, you never spent a matching token because it never existed with Leia.

I believe the language "as if" was used to create a superdial under Leia.

Think about it like this. An engineer value of 4 = 6 under Leia because you're only gaining the 2 points from a matching token, "as if" you had actually spent one, but you do not actually do so (because there is no token in existence to begin with).

So, if a ship has an engineering token and uses an engineering dial, the base value for the dial becomes 6 under Leia, and then the player is not precluded from spending the engineering token to bump it up to 8. The token would not give 3 additional points (half of 6) because the ship's original value is still 4.

And you know what? At 38 points, Leia had better stack.

Just now, Lyraeus said:

The Nebs don't need the force multiplier typically. They need flexibility though.

My issue is that she is as expensive as Ackbar but her ability is far far weaker. It won't be good. Let us know how you fare though

Clearly she's not a good fit for the way you play your lists.

I don't expect to do brilliantly (on a personal skill level) but hope to get a decent road-test to be able to make an informed judgement.

5 minutes ago, Democratus said:

The rules state: "A ship can spend both a command dial and a command token to combine their effects."

It's reasonable to take "a command token" to mean a single command token. Otherwise it would have to say "one or more command tokens".

I'm guessing there will need to be an FAQ to settle it for certain.

But did you actually spend a token? That is the contention here.

Remember, there has been no current way for you to get more than 1 token in use. Ffg also designs typically in waves of 2-3 ahead so wave 6 is well beyond what the creation of the rules would have considered.

12 minutes ago, Lyraeus said:

Where in the rules does it state that you can't get both?

Where in the rules does it state you can?

I'm 100% sure the intent of that rule was to get 1 token with a dial. This is obvious since there is literally no other way to get 2 tokens since the RRG says you can't have 2.

That said, it is entirely possible that Leia will be ruled so you can get 2 tokens and the dial. As it stands now, there is no rule that allows you to do so.

Unless you have a rule that says you are allowed to do it, this conversation isn't going anywhere.

7 minutes ago, ManInTheBox said:

Clearly she's not a good fit for the way you play your lists.

I don't expect to do brilliantly (on a personal skill level) but hope to get a decent road-test to be able to make an informed judgement.

Yea. That will be good. I want to do a test but the simulations in my head just make her feel so underwhelming for nearly a 10th of your points...

1 minute ago, Undeadguy said:

Where in the rules does it state you can?

I'm 100% sure the intent of that rule was to get 1 token with a dial. This is obvious since there is literally no other way to get 2 tokens since the RRG says you can't have 2.

That said, it is entirely possible that Leia will be ruled so you can get 2 tokens and the dial. As it stands now, there is no rule that allows you to do so.

Unless you have a rule that says you are allowed to do it, this conversation isn't going anywhere.

The rules state that you can combine spend a token. With Leia as @Warlord Zepnick states, you have not spent any tokens.

All Leia does is treat the dial as if you had.

it says you can never ever have more than one token of one type.

Ergo you can never have multiple resolutions of the same token.

Leia does not say you can double token, she says you can dial and token, with no token.

1 minute ago, Lyraeus said:

The rules state that you can combine spend a token. With Leia as @Warlord Zepnick states, you have not spent any tokens.

All Leia does is treat the dial as if you had.

If you are treating a command "as if" you had used a dial, then you have used "a dial" - which is all that is allowed in the current rules.

This will need an FAQ if the "as if" is somehow also treated "as if not".

2 minutes ago, Lyraeus said:

The rules state that you can combine spend a token. With Leia as @Warlord Zepnick states, you have not spent any tokens.

All Leia does is treat the dial as if you had.

"When a friendly ship resolves a command by spending a command dial, if it has not yet resolved another command this round, it may resolve that command as if it spent a matching command token. If it does, that ship may not resolve another command this round."

A ship can spend both a command dial and a command token to combine their effects.

Where in the RRG does it state you can do this twice?

I hate these type of debates. "Well the rules don't say I can't do it, therefore I can." vs "The rules don't say you can therefore you can't."

So have at it. I really don't care either way.

5 minutes ago, Undeadguy said:

"When a friendly ship resolves a command by spending a command dial, if it has not yet resolved another command this round, it may resolve that command as if it spent a matching command token. If it does, that ship may not resolve another command this round."

A ship can spend both a command dial and a command token to combine their effects.

Where in the RRG does it state you can do this twice?

I hate these type of debates. "Well the rules don't say I can't do it, therefore I can." vs "The rules don't say you can therefore you can't."

So have at it. I really don't care either way.

You seem to be making the assumption that the "as if" token was one; something you spent and two; that it actually existed.

The "as if" token first off was not spent. Secondly, the rules state that you can only spend 1 command of each type. There is no prescribed limit to the amount except an arbitrary letter that has been part of the rules since certain before Leia commander was a twinkle in a persons eye.

16 minutes ago, TheEasternKing said:

it says you can never ever have more than one token of one type.

Ergo you can never have multiple resolutions of the same token.

Leia does not say you can double token, she says you can dial and token, with no token.

Not having multiple tokens does not ergo being able to use multiple tokens.

What if there was an Officer that let you have a two of each token? Could you spend both?

That idea is not without possibility either. We are talking about people who brought us Tagge and Walex, Monferrat and Cracken. It is very possible to get an Imperial officer that allows that.

Wow, I didn't know I was starting a firefight. I do see some potential with her ability however it is interpreted (I wish the rules designers included examples as to how you're supposed to interpret or play them as I never seem to know how they are to be played after reading a rules post)

Once again, my concern with any commander over 25pts is how to make their ability useful enough, since it is hard to actually fit more than 5-6 meaningful ships in a list. If the commander's ability only affects 2 ships in a list (transports are rarely affected except with MonMothma or Cracken) they seem to diminish in ability.

I would love to watch you play Nebulons Lyraeus as I'm sure you're far more effective with them than I am.

45 minutes ago, TheEasternKing said:

no token

Exactly!

9 minutes ago, buckero0 said:

Wow, I didn't know I was starting a firefight. I do see some potential with her ability however it is interpreted (I wish the rules designers included examples as to how you're supposed to interpret or play them as I never seem to know how they are to be played after reading a rules post)

Once again, my concern with any commander over 25pts is how to make their ability useful enough, since it is hard to actually fit more than 5-6 meaningful ships in a list. If the commander's ability only affects 2 ships in a list (transports are rarely affected except with MonMothma or Cracken) they seem to diminish in ability.

I would love to watch you play Nebulons Lyraeus as I'm sure you're far more effective with them than I am.

Transports would be pretty well affected by Leia, as with either interpretation they are able to nav better or push squadrons harder, which is what they do. I guess they could also now repair a hull.

7 minutes ago, buckero0 said:

Wow, I didn't know I was starting a firefight. I do see some potential with her ability however it is interpreted (I wish the rules designers included examples as to how you're supposed to interpret or play them as I never seem to know how they are to be played after reading a rules post)

Once again, my concern with any commander over 25pts is how to make their ability useful enough, since it is hard to actually fit more than 5-6 meaningful ships in a list. If the commander's ability only affects 2 ships in a list (transports are rarely affected except with MonMothma or Cracken) they seem to diminish in ability.

I would love to watch you play Nebulons Lyraeus as I'm sure you're far more effective with them than I am.

The issue I see with her is you are paying 38 points to get a token on all your ships so long as you don't spend a different token. She will be most useful on low command ships like CR90s and the Hammerhead. But Cracken and Mon Mothma are also good with those ships as well, and you are paying less for a defensive ability.

Leia might be worked into a squad force where she replaces Rieekan and where Garm is not the best choice.

I don't see her working well with large ships since they tend to spend multiple tokens in a turn and Comms Net allows them to do so.

Without knowing what else is in the Wave 6 packs, it's hard to say what type of fleet Leia will fit into.

1 hour ago, Lyraeus said:

The Nebs don't need the force multiplier typically. They need flexibility though.

My issue is that she is as expensive as Ackbar but her ability is far far weaker. It won't be good. Let us know how you fare though

Don't get me started on ackbar!

"Armada players hate this player! He uses alternative maths to prove ackbar is bad!"

Also Leia will not allow the use of a token on top of her effect. If she did it would further add to the bloatedness of tarkin.

Just now, Tirion said:

Also Leia will not allow the use of a token on top of her effect. If she did it would further add to the bloatedness of tarkin.

Wutcha mean bout Tarkin

1 hour ago, Lyraeus said:

No... They really won't. At least the way I fly Nebs. I like to start with an Engineering token and then a Nav but Yavaris likes a Squadron token and Salvation likes Raymus.

My Nebs like to use a command and have the ability to shift shields or speed up.

With Leia you never need to bank a squadron token with Yavaris and can use its effect with a squad-booster officer without wanting to use Raymus or a Veteran Captain for the squadron tokens. Neither do you need to bank a concentrate fire token with Salvation (and you can free up the seat for an Intel Officer). Leia does those things for you for free. She also lets you go from speed 1 to speed 3 with a nav dial and she lets you repair for 6 when Redemption is around. That seems like it has potential.