Stay on target reads: When you reveal a maneuver, you may rotate your dial to another maneuver with the same speed

BB-8 reads: When you reveal a green maneuver, you may perform a free barrel roll action.

What is the timing of this? Can you do the following?

1. Reveal a green maneuver.

2. Trigger BB-8 and barrel roll

3. Then trigger Stay on Target to change it to a different maneuver at the same speed but treat it as red?

Wow. This is on Nien Nunb.

Yup. Used it before. Hilarity ensues.

Want to see it working? Here ya go:

Mike R is my hero.

Because BB-8 and SOT have the same trigger, would you be able to SOT first then barrel roll?

14 minutes ago, Stoneface said:

Because BB-8 and SOT have the same trigger, would you be able to SOT first then barrel roll?

Not quite - The barrel roll needs to be done before the maneuver regardless of the order - you change your dial only with SoT, you dont do the maneuver immediately

1 hour ago, Stoneface said:

Because BB-8 and SOT have the same trigger, would you be able to SOT first then barrel roll?

If you used SoT first you would no longer be revealing a green so no more bb8.

6 hours ago, Stoneface said:

Because BB-8 and SOT have the same trigger, would you be able to SOT first then barrel roll?

Yes. Absolutely nothing in the game can change the result that you already revealed. As soon as you flip that dial, you revealed a green, and that's all there is too it. You would generally do the barrel roll first so that you can better judge what manoeuvre you need, but there's no technical requirement to.

6 hours ago, Kalandros said:

Not quite - The barrel roll needs to be done before the maneuver regardless of the order - you change your dial only with SoT, you dont do the maneuver immediately

He didn't say anything about resolving the manoeuvre, just using SoT.

4 hours ago, thespaceinvader said:

If you used SoT first you would no longer be revealing a green so no more bb8.

Changing the dial does not change what was revealed. The question is a simple one: "Did I reveal a green?"

The answer is yes .

6 minutes ago, InquisitorM said:

He did say anything about resolving the manoeuvre, just using SoT.

Clarifying possible interpretations right away is the best route in rules discussions.

When I asked the question I meant resolving the SOT maneuver then performing the barrel roll. Reflecting on this, the final position of the ship wouldn't be very different regardless of the order they done.

26 minutes ago, InquisitorM said:

Changing the dial does not change what was revealed. The question is a simple one: "Did I reveal a green?"

The and answer is yes .

Yes, it actually changes whats was revealed. That's the whole point behind Imperial Fett + Navigator, or Hera + Navigator.

2 minutes ago, Stoneface said:

When I asked the question I meant resolving the SOT maneuver then performing the barrel roll. Reflecting on this, the final position of the ship wouldn't be very different regardless of the order they done.

SoT only changes the dial. It does not execute the manoeuvre. So you can SoT/BB-8 in any order, but you must finish resolving the 'when revealed' trigger before moving on to performing your manoeuvre. After moving is too late ro resolve BB-8.

2 minutes ago, InquisitorM said:

SoT only changes the dial. It does not execute the manoeuvre. So you can SoT/BB-8 in any order, but you must finish resolving the 'when revealed' trigger before moving on to performing your manoeuvre. After moving is too late ro resolve BB-8.

Yep, didn't think that through before asking the question.

10 minutes ago, Willy Jarque said:

Yes, it actually changes whats was revealed. That's the whole point behind Imperial Fett + Navigator, or Hera + Navigator.

Sadly, that's not what the FAQ says. It gives no explanation of why this works (as written, it shouldn't), and so has no effect on whether this is comparable. If there is an entry somewhere in the rules that says that changing a dial changes what counts as having been revealed, that would be a different story, but I do not believe that such a ruling exists.

Sadly, this 'clarification' on Boba Fett only serves to confuse the issue.

I'm not sure whether I think Fettigator is sufficient precedent to say that SoT does change the color of the maneuver you're revealing for the purposes of later effects, but in this case it doesn't matter.

2 hours ago, InquisitorM said:

Changing the dial does not change what was revealed. The question is a simple one: "Did I reveal a green?"

The answer is yes .

Changing the dial explicitly DOES change what was revealed otherwise heragator and fettigator wouldn't work.

28 minutes ago, thespaceinvader said:

Changing the dial explicitly DOES change what was revealed otherwise heragator and fettigator wouldn't work.

FFG's clarifications work because FFG says so – essentially that this is merely what FFG intended, regardless of what they actually wrote. The precedent is, unfortunately, that this tells us exactly zero about how the rules interact. We are well past consistency being a thing.

Fettigator doesn't require the resolution of a maneuver changing effect on dial reveal to retroactively change what maneuver was revealed. Revealing a white and then changing it to a red or green and then using Hera's pilot ability *would* require that, but it's not in the FAQ yet. It could also be resolved by changing the text of Hera's pilot ability.

As for consistency, unless we have contradictory FAQ clarifications on an issue, I see no reason not to test similar situations in similar ways.

Fettigator doesn't work because you reveal twice or something. It works because revealing a bank maneuver satisfies the triggering condition for both Boba Fett and Navigator.

When you reveal a bank maneuver (<left bank> or <right bank> ), you may rotate your dial to the other bank maneuver of the same speed.

When you reveal a maneuver, you may rotate your dial to another maneuver with the same bearing.

You cannot rotate to a red maneuver if you have any stress tokens.

When you reveal a bank maneuver, you revealed a bank maneuver, so Boba Fett triggers, and you revealed a maneuver, so Navigator triggers. You are the controlling player for both effects so you chose the order in which they are resolved. If you resolve Boba Fett first, you change the maneuver on your dial to the opposite bank maneuver. Then, Navigator allows you rotate your dial to another maneuver with the same bearing as the one on your dial (which Boba Fett has already changed). I'm not sure where this "reveal twice" idea comes from.

I really wish it were that simple – or that the intent for it to function as such had at least been spelled out in the FAQ entry. The problem is that both abilities trigger off the revealed manoeuvre, not after revealing your dial. The 100% clinical interpretation is that if you reveal a 2 left bank, then Navigator triggers off the 2 left bank to make it a 1 or a 3 left bank and then Fett triggers off the 2 left bank to make it a 2 right bank regardless of any previous alterations . Whichever effect resolves last is what you're left with.

This is clearly not what was intended and we have the FAQ clarification to tell us how the card interaction works. However, it doesn't tell us why it works, and so it does not help us with other, similar rulings because we can't know for sure if it is similar at all.

The wording to fit the wording would be more like this:

Quote

After you reveal your dial, if it is a (<left bank> or <right bank> ) you may rotate your dial to the other bank maneuver of the same speed.

Quote

When you reveal your dial, you may rotate it to another maneuver with the same bearing.

In both cases, the 'after you reveal a manoeuvre' is extraneous because you can't reveal anything else! If this was merely a timing for the ability not tied to the revealed manoeuvre, then they would logically stack and there would be no timing issues. Sure, this is autistic-level accuracy, but that's how consistency-based rulings work. In the case of BB-8 this is even more specific: 'After you reveal a green maneuver'. It doesn't care what the manoeuvre is now. It cares what the manoeuvre revealed was. If you couldn't SoT then BB-8, that would be really handy to know as it gives us a far better precedent to extrapolate future rules from, but for now we really don't know.

I think it is really simple honestly. They both have the same trigger, so you can choose the order in which they activate. There have been many people who love and many people who hate the attack timing chart, but if we were to take a ruling based on that chart regarding the Bossk double-tap, I get to choose what order the attacks are done in. However, if I were to choose the Gunner attack first, it explicitly states that no further attacks can be made this turn, and therefore would make it so the IG-88B attack would not be able to trigger. So you always choose the IG-88B attack first. I think the same goes here. Both effects trigger on revealing a maneuver, so you get to choose which order they resolve in. However if you choose to SoT first, it will negate BB-8 from activating, so you should always choose BB-8 first.

1 hour ago, Raven19528 said:

I think it is really simple honestly. They both have the same trigger, so you can choose the order in which they activate. There have been many people who love and many people who hate the attack timing chart, but if we were to take a ruling based on that chart regarding the Bossk double-tap, I get to choose what order the attacks are done in. However, if I were to choose the Gunner attack first, it explicitly states that no further attacks can be made this turn, and therefore would make it so the IG-88B attack would not be able to trigger. So you always choose the IG-88B attack first. I think the same goes here. Both effects trigger on revealing a maneuver, so you get to choose which order they resolve in. However if you choose to SoT first, it will negate BB-8 from activating, so you should always choose BB-8 first.

Stay on Target can't prevent BB-8 from triggering. BB-8 requires you to reveal a green maneuver; what maneuver is actually executed or any other changes made to the dial after reveal don't affect what was revealed.

Thanks for all the discussion and especially the video. Wow.. what a game. So much maneuvering and in that tight space. Some real masterclass flying there.