Storms Sorceress is 4 points and adds this as a special action to the unit that she is added to:

"Roll 1 blue die. For each surge, choose and enemy at range 1-3. Each chosen enemy suffers [RED RUNE] damage."

Compare that to the 6 point Uncontrolled Geomancer:

It seems like the Geomancer will really take some work to get into situations where its worth using his special while the Sorceress is is going to find a lot of opportunities to toss out some damage with her special.

The only thing that I can think of that makes the prices make sense in comparing these units it that there's a decent chance that special action from the Storms Sorceress may end up doing nothing if depending on the dice roll.

18 minutes ago, WWHSD said:

The only thing that I can think of that makes the prices make sense in comparing these units it that there's a decent chance that special action from the Storms Sorceress may end up doing nothing if depending on the dice roll.

I think that may be it - there's a 3 in 8 chance of seeing any combo of surge/surges on a blue die. Only 1 in 8 to see a double surge, 2 in 8 to see a single.

So slightly less than half the time she will proc.

Still, when she does it will be pretty brutal, and if she's backed up by Maegan's rune flipping shenanigans doubly so...

But overall - I'd definitely still prefer her over Uncontrolled Geomancer, she's still going to be useful more often IMHO

I'm sure that there will be some sort of upgrade that allows some mitigation of the self damage from Uncontrolled Geomancer but the fact that your opponent gets to allocate the damage should keep any real schenanigans in check.

The Geomancer is an AoE, as well, the Sorceress is more of a sniper. With some crafty maneuvering the Geomancer could potentially do a lot of damage. Maybe once... a smart opponent probably wouldn't deploy and send all their 3x3s at a Geomancer either. Definitely not sold on that upgrade

6 hours ago, maxam said:

I think that may be it - there's a 3 in 8 chance of seeing any combo of surge/surges on a blue die. Only 1 in 8 to see a double surge, 2 in 8 to see a single.

So slightly less than half the time she will proc.

Still, when she does it will be pretty brutal, and if she's backed up by Maegan's rune flipping shenanigans doubly so...

But overall - I'd definitely still prefer her over Uncontrolled Geomancer, she's still going to be useful more often IMHO

And in those 3 of 8 cases. The runes must follow you. Can be 0, 2 or 4.

So damage is far from sure in sorceress.

8 hours ago, Hijodecain said:

And in those 3 of 8 cases. The runes must follow you. Can be 0, 2 or 4.

So damage is far from sure in sorceress.

Oh I agree wholeheartedly, but that is also why I mentioned it would be important to have her backed up by Maegan... what I should have said is Maegan with Malcorne's Bequest which gives her a free re-cast of the correct rune type (unstable) and if that doesn't work she gets another re-cast for the cost of exhausting the Bequest.

You're still stacking a lot of things up to get her to proc, but I still think she has the edge on the Geomancer.

The Daqan can take the other mage that lets them flip runes to help with his ability, but he's still going to have to be within (a variable by turn) range of a unit that is of the right size/type for the ability to have an effect.

9 hours ago, maxam said:

Oh I agree wholeheartedly, but that is also why I mentioned it would be important to have her backed up by Maegan... what I should have said is Maegan with Malcorne's Bequest which gives her a free re-cast of the correct rune type (unstable) and if that doesn't work she gets another re-cast for the cost of exhausting the Bequest.

You're still stacking a lot of things up to get her to proc, but I still think she has the edge on the Geomancer.

The Daqan can take the other mage that lets them flip runes to help with his ability, but he's still going to have to be within (a variable by turn) range of a unit that is of the right size/type for the ability to have an effect.

Keeping your own units clear of (or immune to) the Geomancer will be the real challenge.

If I'm figuring it correctly, there's a 25% chance of no red runes, 25% chance of 4 red runes, and 50% chance of 2 red runes. Unless you've built around making your multi-base units immune to your Geomancer (2x1 Rune Golem, 2x2 Rune Golem using the defense modifier, 2x1 Cavalry using the defense modifier) you are going to probably want range 2 most of the time to minimize self inflicted caualties.

I may be wrong, but I'm looking at Uncontrolled Geomancer as a meta call. If large, multi-tray units start taking over, Uncontrolled Geomancer can put them in their place. Combine the large damage potential with the fact that this "attack" ignores blight because no dice are rolled, and you have a powerful weapon against the 4x3 Reanimates, or the 3x3 Reanimates with Carrion Lancer upgrade.

7 hours ago, Parakitor said:

I may be wrong, but I'm looking at Uncontrolled Geomancer as a meta call. If large, multi-tray units start taking over, Uncontrolled Geomancer can put them in their place. Combine the large damage potential with the fact that this "attack" ignores blight because no dice are rolled, and you have a powerful weapon against the 4x3 Reanimates, or the 3x3 Reanimates with Carrion Lancer upgrade.

why specifically with a carrion lancer? I mean bam there is 9 damage, but none of that can go to the lancer since you aren't rolling accuracy, and unless I'm missing something, you can't with this damage...I'm not saying that it isn't good damage just wondering why the singling out that poor lil'lancer

2 hours ago, jek said:

why specifically with a carrion lancer? I mean bam there is 9 damage, but none of that can go to the lancer since you aren't rolling accuracy, and unless I'm missing something, you can't with this damage...I'm not saying that it isn't good damage just wondering why the singling out that poor lil'lancer

Specifically it's 1) the ability to spit blight, and 2) the fact that it appears to be a commonly used unit at the moment. I'm not saying the damage dealt specifically counters it.

28 minutes ago, Parakitor said:

Specifically it's 1) the ability to spit blight, and 2) the fact that it appears to be a commonly used unit at the moment. I'm not saying the damage dealt specifically counters it.

You can fit quite a few 3x2 Reanimates with Support Lancers into a 200 point army. An Uncontrolled Geomancer could deal some serious damage. Spearmen with a Geomancer could move into range at initiative 8 with a special action modifier and then follow it up the next round with either a rally or attack at 3 with the special action modifier. That's a nice chunk of damage if you can avoid melting your own forces nearly as much.

Ardus + Ancient Technique (39 pts.)
3 x 3x2 Reanimates w/Support Lancer (123 pts.)
2x2 Reanimate Archers w/Rank Discipline (36 pts.)

For the same 36 points you could bring 2 x 2x1 Reanimate Archers without the Rank Discipline. It seems to me that getting 2 sets of rerolls is going to be better at dealing either Blight or Damage as needed than having a second unmodified attack would.

I guess we should also add in the Waiqar damage dealing Spellcaster. This guy seems like the real sniper. Assuming you can get a blight token on your target he is going to inflict 1 or 2 wounds. Not damage. Wounds. His ability is more or less the ranged version of the Worm's surge ability. It spends the blight token but it isn't dependent on needing to roll a surge and doesn't force you to engage the target.

He's not going to be great against large cheap units but he'll be nice for picking off heroes and tougher units. They aren't unique so you could potentially be taking a hero off the board in one turn. The problem is going to be finding a way to get enough blight tokens on your target. Assuming that you've got Ardus already in your army, it's going to cost at least 62 points to bring 2 of these guys. Maybe add in a couple of solo worms and a 2x2 block of archers with Rank Discipline? That leaves you with 3 points to spend.

4 x Worms (60)
Ardus w/Ancient Technique(39)
2x2 Archers w/Rank Discipline (36)
2 x 2x2 Reanimates w/Deathcaller (62)

Maybe cut back on the solo worms a bit to add in a little more beef. Dropping two of the worms lets you take the Reanimates and Archers all to 3x2. That's a little less blight but a little more beef and damage. This leaves 2 points.

2 x Worms (30)
Ardus w/Ancient Technique(39)
3x2 Archers w/Rank Discipline (49)
2 x 3x2 Reanimates w/Deatchcaller (80)

The second army isn't dependent on Ardus to meet the size requirements for its upgrades. He could be replaced with a different hero or a third 3x2 Reanimate w/Deathcaller block.

I also like that the enemy can be engaged

3 hours ago, WWHSD said:

2 x Worms (30)
Ardus w/Ancient Technique(39)
3x2 Archers w/Rank Discipline (49)
2 x 3x2 Reanimates w/Deatchcaller (80)

The second army isn't dependent on Ardus to meet the size requirements for its upgrades. He could be replaced with a different hero or a third 3x2 Reanimate w/Deathcaller block.

I love this list! ... and it justifies a second command pack purchase to boot!

13 hours ago, WWHSD said:

I guess we should also add in the Waiqar damage dealing Spellcaster. This guy seems like the real sniper. Assuming you can get a blight token on your target he is going to inflict 1 or 2 wounds. Not damage. Wounds. His ability is more or less the ranged version of the Worm's surge ability. It spends the blight token but it isn't dependent on needing to roll a surge and doesn't force you to engage the target.

It's the init 5 death combo.

Archers take Combat ingenuity, so that every single surge becomes a blight token. They shoot at init 5, putting down a blight (from the surge on the dial) + whatever the dice do.

Also at init 5, the Carrion swings in combat, with each surge doing a mortal wound, (since you just put the blight down at init 5, you're opponent has not had the change to remove it)

Finally, also at init 5, The Death Caller's unit reforms (because it's init 5) and performs a skill, letting the death caller spend 1 blight to do some more wounds.

Unlikely a unit can take more than a round or two of this.

I'm a little concerned about these low health, low defense single figure upgrades. Rolling one accuracy result and one hit is all it takes to pick most of these guys off and the Waiqar seem well suited to doing so with their archers.

As for the Storm Sorceress, how about using Maegan's army building ability (each infantry unit can equip a "Sorceress" upgrade in addition to its available upgrades) to take lots of 2-tray formations of archers, each with a Storm Sorceress? How many can you fit in a 200 point army? You'd have to buy a ridiculous amount of Infantry Command and Archer expansion packs though

Well at least accuracy will become a thing, so far in my games it's been a blank

53 minutes ago, Daverman said:

I'm a little concerned about these low health, low defense single figure upgrades. Rolling one accuracy result and one hit is all it takes to pick most of these guys off and the Waiqar seem well suited to doing so with their archers.

As for the Storm Sorceress, how about using Maegan's army building ability (each infantry unit can equip a "Sorceress" upgrade in addition to its available upgrades) to take lots of 2-tray formations of archers, each with a Storm Sorceress? How many can you fit in a 200 point army? You'd have to buy a ridiculous amount of Infantry Command and Archer expansion packs though

Based on the point costs of the other units in the elf starter pack and working under the assumption that it has about 100 points of units like each faction in the core set does, then the archers should cost roughly the same as the Oathsworn Calvary. The two base formation should be about 20 points.

Maegan + Malcorne's Bequest (42)
6 x 2x1 Archers w/Storms Sorceress

It leaves you with 14 points to play with. You could toss in a Scion for that. I figure that you'll want Malcorne's Bequest on Maegan to maximize the damage output from the Sorceresses.