For me, my only issue whit it it's more a title problem. The ship is doing what he was made for, fire power input. I really like Mon Karren but I didn't use once the Liberty or Endeavor titles.
The only way I would see I could use the Liberty is with Garm Bel Iblis because of that free token at the rigth turn (and I don't use usually Garm).
One thing is sure, your MC80 BC or SC is not supposed to be your carrier.
Looking forward to using it with Leia mind. With her ability it'll have a built-in Raymus, giving it great engineering in addition to whatever officer you put with it.
The context of the discussion was the performance of large ships in general.
One of the cooler bits of info in the recent Regionals data has been that large ships were doing about as well as expected. Meaning that they were showing up at a similar rate overall and the top tables. This data went against the general impression that large ships struggle to be competitive.
What then became more interesting was when I broke it out by large ship type. ISDs were exceeding expectations, the Home One was doing about as well as expected, and the Liberty was struggling relative to the other large ships. The Liberty certainly can find success, but more players are struggling to use it well.
And really that fits the pattern that the ISD and Home One followed too. It took players awhile to figure out how to get the most from them (flotillas have helped too). Just in writing this post I'm actually pretty amused that FFG managed to create 3 large ships that require some pretty different playstyles.
24 minutes ago, shmitty said:And really that fits the pattern that the ISD and Home One followed too. It took players awhile to figure out how to get the most from them (flotillas have helped too). Just in writing this post I'm actually pretty amused that FFG managed to create 3 large ships that require some pretty different playstyles.
It means that the diversity of just changing the speeds, attack dice, and arcs can make all the difference
It's great target practice......??
Quote from Verg: "it's a Battle Cruiser- Which means it smashes smalls and can run from Large bases"
Once I started playing the Lib with this mindset, Madine, and Engine Techs... I fell in love.
If you put mc30 and liberty in the same list, you don't hava much points for activatcion and squadrons, so you are in trouble when you fight against a eavy fighter squadrons or a heavy activaction list 
My problem is I struggle to run the Liberty with anyone but Madine. I've tried it with other commanders and I just can't get it to work.
That's true to pretty much every list. There is a list that counters it perfectly. If someone trashes my Liberty+MC30 list with fighters, he'll be trashed by a Raider-heavy MSU or a list with excessive fighter screen.
On titles: Mon Karren is really a great title, but I realized that it generates a huge threat and everyone instantly jumps at it, or flees from it. So a Mon Karren barely gets the chance to shoot. However, I found Endeavor extremely useful if I want my Liberty to keep a lower profile. It adds a contain token which can save the Liberty's life on some occasions and a non-Karren Liberty is always considered less of a threat - and often is underestimated - by the opposition.
On Madine: He really makes the Lib sing, but Dodonna and Rieekan are good too. Moreover I tried it out with Craken and even he works because the Liberty loves going at high speed with ET (after the initial engagement of course)
Edited by Norell4 minutes ago, Norell said:That's true to pretty much every list. There is a list that counters it perfectly. If someone trashes my Liberty+MC30 list with fighters, he'll be trashed by a Raider-heavy MSU or a list with excessive fighter screen.
On titles: Mon Karren is really a great title, but I realized that it generates a huge threat and everyone instantly jumps at it, or flees from it. So a Mon Karren barely gets the chance to shoot. However, I found Endeavor extremely useful if I want my Liberty to keep a lower profile. It adds a contain token which can save the Liberty's life on some occasions and a non-Karren Liberty is always considered less of a threat - and often is underestimated - by the opposition.
On Madine: He really makes the Lib sing, but Dodonna and Rieekan are good too. Moreover I tried it out with Craken and even he works because the Liberty loves going at high speed with ET (after the initial engagement of course)
You don't get the Cracken bonus though....
16 minutes ago, geek19 said:You don't get the Cracken bonus though....
The Lib can run at speed 3, so you totally can.
Cracked doesn't work on Large base ships...
Garm really does well with the Liberty. It loves the tokens and makes good use of them with Nav Teams, etc.
9 minutes ago, shmitty said:Cracked doesn't work on Large base ships...
Garm really does well with the Liberty. It loves the tokens and makes good use of them with Nav Teams, etc.
I've been debating Nav Team a lot more recently. Especially on ships when Leia comes out....
10 minutes ago, geek19 said:I've been debating Nav Team a lot more recently. Especially on ships when Leia comes out....
I've been using it more recently. Engine Techs is great, but sometimes you want to turn sharper not go faster.
7 minutes ago, shmitty said:I've been using it more recently. Engine Techs is great, but sometimes you want to turn sharper not go faster.
Yup, that's what I've been debating trying if I ever run a Liberty without Madine....
1 hour ago, Aresius said:If you put mc30 and liberty in the same list, you don't hava much points for activatcion and squadrons, so you are in trouble when you fight against a eavy fighter squadrons or a heavy activaction list
Check my list out then and say that that.
Is it wrong that I will just Nav Command and use the Transport and Tano to give it tokens?
12 minutes ago, Lyraeus said:Check my list out then and say that that.
I say that
17 minutes ago, Lyraeus said:Check my list out then and say that that.
1 hour ago, Aresius said:If you put mc30 and liberty in the same list, you don't hava much points for activatcion and squadrons, so you are in trouble when you fight against a eavy fighter squadrons or a heavy activaction list
With that fleet, yup, you're gonna get wrecked by squadrons. Unscreened Liberties die in one round to concentrated squadron fire, no exaggeration. That side arc is just like the Nebulon's, but bigger and with no evades to force Rhymer to at least close to close range.
Aresius, the only guy I've seen successfully run a Liberty and MC30 was Ben, and he only did it by bringing two ISDs in the same list. 
But seriously, it is possible to cover all your bases relatively well with those two in the list... you just have a looot of weaknesses to patch over in your remaining points. I don't think they pair particularly well together in most builds, but on the other hand I have seen it be successful enough to warrant respect.
5 minutes ago, Ardaedhel said:
With that fleet, yup, you're gonna get wrecked by squadrons. Unscreened Liberties die in one round to concentrated squadron fire, no exaggeration. That side arc is just like the Nebulon's, but bigger and with no evades to force Rhymer to at least close to close range.
Aresius, the only guy I've seen successfully run a Liberty and MC30 was Ben, and he only did it by bringing two ISDs in the same list.
They said that when I brought out DtO in the first place. We shall see though it will likely happen but I could pull it off... We shall see
A mate of mine has taken a tricked out pair of them in the last games we've played. He's very aggressive with them and drives them right at me using Engine Techs for an effective speed of 4. There's very little that they won't make a mess of is short order.
It probably is vulnerable to squadrons (haven't tried yet) but has the speed and firepower to potentially hunt down a carrier on turn 2-3.
4 minutes ago, Lyraeus said:They said that when I brought out DtO in the first place. We shall see though it will likely happen but I could pull it off... We shall see
They did, and I disagreed with them then. D+O was a different time for the squadron game.
By all means, try it. I'm all about trying new things and challenging perceptions. I just took an Interdictor to a tournament. I just wouldn't expect to get too far on this without a nod to squadron defense.
Just now, Ardaedhel said:They did, and I disagreed with them then. D+O was a different time for the squadron game.
By all means, try it. I'm all about trying new things and challenging perceptions. I just took an Interdictor to a tournament. I just wouldn't expect to get too far on this without a nod to squadron defense.
I like the challenge the perceptions and this does both. That the Liberty is worthless against squadrons and that a squadronless build will do poorly. Maybe they will, but I will try
Reb player needs to stick and move roll around the flank poping one ship at a time and move in tying the other force in a knot The best game I have played fielding the rebs (minefield) I killed one ship on the end of the emp line and then the next one. total kills for the whole game I killed 6 fighters one VSD and one GSD I lost 5 fighters and half the shields on a SFII and hull damage on a CR90. also no shots fired till turn 3. But when your whole force or most of it can fire on one ship and the other side can only fire with one ship that is just perfection in ship combat of any kind.
As someone who transitioned into my current experimental double Liberty list from double ISD lists, it's a big jump. They don't play alike at all, both at the ship and fleet level. For starters, the Liberty is cheap enough you can usually get away with more support than a double ISD list, and you need it. With a pair of ISDs, usually the formation is some variation of a wheeling line-abreast, sweeping everything before them and relying on huge survivability to offset the usual lack of activation advantage. Liberty's can't afford to let many larger targets (anything Medium or Large) survive their initial pass, lest it survive to shoot back and move past them. They are much more reliant on careful positioning as well, because if an ISD with XI7 manages to sidestep the front arc, they can often obliterate the Liberty or leave it crippled. (JJ makes this pretty easy all things considered.) Concentrated fire (the tactic, not the command) is an absolute must, and you have to set up in a way you can't be passed. Once you consider that several staple Rebel commanders that make the lighter support ships good (Mothma, Ackbar, Cracken) are worthless on the big capital ship(s), the fleet-building gets even more constrained. I think they're a perfectly viable ship type, but they, even more than an ISD or Home One, need the fleet to be built around them for maximum effect.