So the two strongholds revealed both have ten influence.
I noticed at the bottom of the conflict cards they have 0,1,2 or 3 bamboo printed on them.
I'm guessing this is the influence cost of the cards but do people think choice will also be restricted by other things like clan choice (a bit like 40k conflict) or just influence cost (like ANR)?
i would hazard to guess you can only include up to INFLUENCE out of clan, non-neutral cards in your deck. this probably would be classified as a very safe bet, based on what we've seen so far. i don't think they'll add any craziness like a clan wheel.
I agree. With the reveal of influence I think a second layer of deck building restriction would be unnecessary.
The only thing I can think of that would change that is if they changed alliances of each clan as the story go on.
Right now Scorpion are allied with Lion. But what if in a few sets they aren't and are allied with Dragon. Well no we can't used Lion and we can use Dragon.
This is really only for OP, and thematic OP at that. Just a thought.
3 minutes ago, NerdyCat said:So the two strongholds revealed both have ten influence.
I noticed at the bottom of the conflict cards they have 0,1,2 or 3 bamboo printed on them.
I'm guessing this is the influence cost of the cards but do people think choice will also be restricted by other things like clan choice (a bit like 40k conflict) or just influence cost (like ANR)?
Conquest alliance matrix makes not much sense here. There is no need to avoid stuff like Space Marines allying with Chaos. On the other hand, restricting how many cards from other Clans that you can use, like ANR, makes more sense. What we do not know yet is if we can put characters from another Clan in our Dinasty deck. So far it iseems that it is not the case.
4 minutes ago, BayushiCroy said:I agree. With the reveal of influence I think a second layer of deck building restriction would be unnecessary.
The only thing I can think of that would change that is if they changed alliances of each clan as the story go on.
Right now Scorpion are allied with Lion. But what if in a few sets they aren't and are allied with Dragon. Well no we can't used Lion and we can use Dragon.
This is really only for OP, and thematic OP at that. Just a thought.
To add to my thought.
I have also noticed that no characters have influence that we have seen. This make me further think that an Alliance wheel won't happen.
be cool if they eventually added senseis to the game, which tinkered with influence. "X clan cards cost you -1 influence to a minimum of 1" etc
So I better do not hold my breath for Oath of Fealty ?
Just now, Wintersong said:So I better do not hold my breath for Oath of Fealty ?
huh, interesting, yeah. if deckbuilding in newl5r works anything like netrunner, the deckbuilding rules would mean that card and ones like it, that mess with clan alignment, won't ever be a thing
One thought that has crossed my mind (mainly cause of AGoT 2nd) is if except the 10 (or whatever) influence limit, you can only pick from one Clan that those out of faction cards will come...
30 minutes ago, C3gorach said:One thought that has crossed my mind (mainly cause of AGoT 2nd) is if except the 10 (or whatever) influence limit, you can only pick from one Clan that those out of faction cards will come...
Interesting, that would definitely limit what you can pick from.
5 hours ago, C3gorach said:One thought that has crossed my mind (mainly cause of AGoT 2nd) is if except the 10 (or whatever) influence limit, you can only pick from one Clan that those out of faction cards will come...
That sounds like it would be a lot easier to balance. I'd be surprised if that's the case though. I do like it though. Of course they could have Neutral cards that anyone could have as well.
I guess that the influence is just about the fate deck, but I think there could be also an option for dynasty decks which they would have yet to reveal. The could make cards like senseis that you can start the game with and which represent an alliance between two clans and thus allow you to play characters of a second clan. I mean that would be fittng for L5R where we had story about the old alliance between the Scorpion and the Dragon, where we had the formation of the Claws and Feather alliance, and of course the the current fluff for the new game already talks about the Lion and Scorpion teaming up against the Crane. The additional advantage would also be that the core set could become easier to build decks with if you can mix clans this way.
14 hours ago, cielago said:i would hazard to guess you can only include up to INFLUENCE out of clan, non-neutral cards in your deck. this probably would be classified as a very safe bet, based on what we've seen so far. i don't think they'll add any craziness like a clan wheel.
I'm guessing they can print Neutral cards w/ influence, if they are powerful enough. They did it with A:NR. Mainly you ignore influence on cards of your clan/faction.
Vengeful Oathkeeper (Lion character, in the first article) has 2 bamboo... or is it a follower ?
But yes, I've been surprised that all the other characters have none. So (and if Vengeful Oathkeepers is a character, and characters do have bamboo restrictions), when characters have no bamboo on them, does that mean you can't add them to your deck if they're not from your clan... or the total opposite, that you can add them with no cost whatever your clan is... ?
Most likely can't add them.
It seems to be the case that Dynasty Cards essentially have the
Loyal
keyword, while Conflict cards may be included.
4 minutes ago, Katsutoshi said:Vengeful Oathkeeper (Lion character, in the first article) has 2 bamboo... or is it a follower ?
But yes, I've been surprised that all the other characters have none. So (and if Vengeful Oathkeepers is a character, and characters do have bamboo restrictions), when characters have no bamboo on them, does that mean you can't add them to your deck if they're not from your clan... or the total opposite, that you can add them with no cost whatever your clan is... ?
I'm pretty sure it's only out of faction conflict cards that can be purchased with influence and Vengeful Oathkeeper is a conflict card.
Vengeful Oathkeeper's last words in his text are "from your hand." I'm pretty sure he's a Conflict card that can be put into play when you lose a military conflict, or perhaps when you are about to lose such a conflict, so he may alter the outcome.
Ok, so let's assume characters don't have bamboos.
I wouldn't be surprise that it means you can put characters from any clan in any deck. And only conflict cards have restrictions. We could even imagine such a rule as your out-of-clans characters do not add their glory to their stats values when they are honorable, to mitigate all this. No ?
6 minutes ago, Katsutoshi said:Ok, so let's assume characters don't have bamboos.
I wouldn't be surprise that it means you can put characters from any clan in any deck. And only conflict cards have restrictions. We could even imagine such a rule as your out-of-clans characters do not add their glory to their stats values when they are honorable, to mitigate all this. No ?
That's not what happens. Dynasty cards don't have influence (bamboo), but Conflict cards do. Characters can be found in both decks.
What it probably means is that you cannot include cards from another clan in your Dynasty deck. But you can include out-of-clan cards (including characters) in your Conflict deck for the appropriate amount of influence.
That's possible. I think more likely you won't be able to stock out-of-Clan personalities in the first place. It's a simpler solution. I could see a Stronghold overwriting that limitation, though.
5 minutes ago, GooeyChewie said:That's possible. I think more likely you won't be able to stock out-of-Clan personalities in the first place. It's a simpler solution. I could see a Stronghold overwriting that limitation, though.
I would think that the simpler solution is that you could purchase any out of faction Conflict cards with the influence you have.
6 minutes ago, GooeyChewie said:That's possible. I think more likely you won't be able to stock out-of-Clan personalities in the first place.
Vengeful Oathkeeper is a Conflict character and has 2 influence (so you can use it out-of-clan). That means the deckbuilding rule for influence is about which deck a card goes into rather than which type a card is (unlike in the CCG, card type doesn't completely determine which deck a card goes in).
I should clarify because a post came up between the one to which I was responding and mine, and I failed to quote anybody.
I think disallowing out-of-clan personalities is a simpler solution than allowing out-of-clan personalities at a penalty. I predict no Dynasty cards will have influence stats, and therefore they can only be included in a deck if they match the Stronghold or are neutral. I also predict that at some point (not the base set) we will get Strongholds which specifically allow certain Dynasty cards from other clans instead of giving an in-game bonus.
Just now, GooeyChewie said:I think disallowing out-of-clan personalities is a simpler solution than allowing out-of-clan personalities at a penalty. I predict no Dynasty cards will have influence stats, and therefore they can only be included in a deck if they match the Stronghold or are neutral. I also predict that at some point (not the base set) we will get Strongholds which specifically allow certain Dynasty cards from other clans instead of giving an in-game bonus.
That type of stronghold would be nearly impossible to balance and test properly, as you'd have to constantly test all potential Dynasty cards, now and future, against all possible members of that Clan.
There are no Influence costs on Dynasty cards, and having a stronghold like you mentioned would basically force them to retrofit an Influence-style cost to all Dynasty cards. And that just won't happen.
Alternatively, you could think of a stronghold that only allows you to play a specific list of out-of-clan personalities, but that will then be either so limited as to be useless or hopelessly combo-riffic.
The overwriting would absolutely have to be done in a limited way. I was thinking along the lines of a clan stronghold that allows you to use characters of a specific other clan with a specific keyword. Like maybe a Phoenix Stronghold that lets you also use Dragon Shugenja. Or a Mantis (hey, I did say not the base set!) Stronghold that lets you use Crab Merchants.
If they want to get really crazy, they could have a Neutral Stronghold that lets you use any Courtier, but only Courtiers, with high influence but any non-neutral Conflict card takes influence. But then we are getting into "impossible to test" and "hopelessly comboriffic" territory.