So.

Let's say I have a person who's played some coreset games. Her complaint: game has too many rules; it takes too long.

After some... let's call them, "negotiations," said person is willing to play another game with me. I really want this person to accept the game (Let's just call her, Lord Wife, auditor of Galactic Credits, especially of those used for little plastic space vessels).

She's not exactly a star wars nut, but the female protagonists in the new trilogy and Rogue One helped her get past the "oh great, another smelly-nerd-fest" and she considers herself to "like" Star Wars now. (Woo! Caveat: I made the mistake of showing her Episode II and she believes that the entire movie is misogynistic because of how it portrays Padme falling for sand-hater-derp-Anakin. Husbands be warned!)

Anyways, I think this is like the only chance I'm going to have for months: she generally likes board games, but I'm not quite sure how to build the lists to maximize her chances of appreciating the game. I'm thinking I should try doing a mirror match, squadronless, 300 points, few to no upgrades. I have about 1000 points of both factions so I'm pretty sure I have doubles of just about everything. Any advice? I am probably going to run objectives.

Or, instead of mirror match, I was thinking maybe just running naked ISD's vs naked MC80's to keep the overall number of ships down and still allow some faction character to come out.

Good luck to you. I tried with my girl friend, and she also said there are too many rules to keep track of.

My suggestion: ask what she wants her fleet to do. Since she has already played some games, she has a basic understanding of moving and shooting. So keep it simple. Long or short range. Fast or slow. Those tend to be the most basic level of fleet creation and it quickly gets more complicated from there.

I'd play with multiple different ships so she can see what each ship is supposed to do. Playing with MC80s and ISDs does not give much insight into how that ship plays a role in the fleet. Run no upgrades, since it can be frustrating what she realizes your upgrades auto damages for 2 (curse you TRC). I'd also suggest using Ties and X-Wings since they are the most basic squads.

Run something like this:

ISD II
Vic I
Raider
Tie/F

MC80
MC30
CR90
X-Wing

Maybe even add another ship to both sides. I don't think you should play 300 point fleets, since it really holds the game back.

If she enjoys that game, then you can dive into upgrades. From my experience, let her read them by herself and build her own ships. Then take a look and ask what she is trying to do with the ship. Give advice or let her learn the hard way on how NOT to build ships.

Can't give much advice beyond that, except you shouldn't question her actions or try to give insight on the "best" move. You learned the hard way. I learned the hard way. It's the best way to learn IMO even if you lose.

Oh, a glass of wine or beer is also helpful.

3 minutes ago, Undeadguy said:

... you shouldn't question her actions or try to give insight on the "best" move. You learned the hard way. I learned the hard way. It's the best way to learn IMO even if you lose.

This is the only place you lose me undead. This is Wifemada, the single most important game of Armada you will ever play in your life. Let the beautiful, captivating, loving Wookie win. I mean, don't let her KNOW you are letting her win, but Armada is a big time investment, and losing a game sucks for anyone. I finally convinced my wife to play, and I let her beat me probably 3-4 times before I took a game. Now she plays with about 50 more points than me and we can go neither holding back, but we still don't do many upgrades. No titles. No Auto damage stuff (TRC, SW7, etc). No flotillas.

Also: you're never going to get a girl into wargaming that isn't already predisposed by the time they are getting married. The problem I've run into is that they are just not interested in 'conflict for the sake of conflict' in the way a 'stereotypical guy' tends to be. You need something aside of the standalone battle to have any shot at all - maybe discussing the campaign game, first?

You might have more luck with the more character-oriented games. Or, again, with a stronger narrative campaign. Imperial Assault is a strong candidate, for that. Heck, even X-Wing, if you stick to 'thematic play' (especially the multi-mission campaigns that tend to come with the Epic ships), but that's going to be reaching, again.

(FWIW, at least in cases I've run into, the 'too many rules to keep track of' is just a 'polite' response, and probably not something you should read too much into. It would be more accurately phrased as 'this is far more complicated than any level of interest I have in the topic justifies'. I mean, seriously, I've run into women who play Arkham Horror with all its expansions try that excuse for X-Wing , which, I mean... no . LOL.)

28 minutes ago, DUR said:

I made the mistake of showing her Episode II

Episode II (or I or III for that matter) is always a mistake. I let my kids watch them once, just so they'd have an idea of the story, and never again. They exist solely to give future directors things to fix/try to work around (midichlorians?!?! the chosen one?!?! ugh).

Edit: And R2D2 flies!! really?!?!!? Why? How? Since when? Were his jets broken in IV V and VI?? You're killing us George

19 minutes ago, Undeadguy said:

Can't give much advice beyond that, except you shouldn't question her actions or try to give insight on the "best" move. You learned the hard way. I learned the hard way. It's the best way to learn IMO even if you lose.

I think this depends greatly on how she likes to play games. If it's the "hard way" it may be too hard for her and she might quit. She might enjoy the conversations you have about why and how you do things as she gets into the game. At this point I don't think it's about winning and losing but having a shared pleasant experience so she'll keep coming back. OTOH if she is one to want to figure stuff out herself then let her struggle. But I would think too much struggle would make it less fun.

Hmmmmmm

Issues.... Hmmmmm

Issues... Hmmmmm

Oh! Idea!

Everyone above me is right but listen to @BrobaFett has the best of it.

Maybe try to keep it thematic, a few simple upgrades

Try 2 ISD IIs

One with Avenger needa and TRCs the other with X17s and leading shots and do like 5 ties (vader as commander since he's iconic?)

Pit that against and two Mc80s with leading shots and akbar with 3 xwings

gives the big fleet battle feel, introduces simple mechanics.... lets her use iconic characters (too bad Leia isn't out yet?)

If sinking a Star Destroyer or sinking something with a Star Destroyer doesn't get her hooked spess battles may not be her thing lol

29 minutes ago, xanderf said:

Also: you're never going to get a girl into wargaming that isn't already predisposed by the time they are getting married. The problem I've run into is that they are just not interested in 'conflict for the sake of conflict' in the way a 'stereotypical guy' tends to be. You need something aside of the standalone battle to have any shot at all - maybe discussing the campaign game, first?

You might have more luck with the more character-oriented games. Or, again, with a stronger narrative campaign. Imperial Assault is a strong candidate, for that. Heck, even X-Wing, if you stick to 'thematic play' (especially the multi-mission campaigns that tend to come with the Epic ships), but that's going to be reaching, again.

(FWIW, at least in cases I've run into, the 'too many rules to keep track of' is just a 'polite' response, and probably not something you should read too much into. It would be more accurately phrased as 'this is far more complicated than any level of interest I have in the topic justifies'. I mean, seriously, I've run into women who play Arkham Horror with all its expansions try that excuse for X-Wing , which, I mean... no . LOL.)

Well, I got her into shooting... (although empowerment is a big part of the appeal for that one)

She's also naturally extremely competitive, which is why I'm bothering with this exercise at all, but I'll keep that in mind. In terms of her conflict-desire: she used to compete in martial arts tournaments on a regular basis, so I got that one covered (yes, I know: a keeper!)

37 minutes ago, BrobaFett said:

This is the only place you lose me undead. This is Wifemada, the single most important game of Armada you will ever play in your life. Let the beautiful, captivating, loving Wookie win. I mean, don't let her KNOW you are letting her win, but Armada is a big time investment, and losing a game sucks for anyone. I finally convinced my wife to play, and I let her beat me probably 3-4 times before I took a game. Now she plays with about 50 more points than me and we can go neither holding back, but we still don't do many upgrades. No titles. No Auto damage stuff (TRC, SW7, etc). No flotillas.

34 minutes ago, durandal343 said:

I think this depends greatly on how she likes to play games. If it's the "hard way" it may be too hard for her and she might quit. She might enjoy the conversations you have about why and how you do things as she gets into the game. At this point I don't think it's about winning and losing but having a shared pleasant experience so she'll keep coming back. OTOH if she is one to want to figure stuff out herself then let her struggle. But I would think too much struggle would make it less fun.

These are good points. My girl friend is very competitive since she played soccer for 18 years. So she never likes it when I let her win. It really comes down to how competitive she is.

My girl friend stopped playing because it was overwhelming and I had started playing with other people so she was happy with that. She also has a 75% win rate against me so she doesn't want to lose that hahaha

You are not going to get your wife into Armada. Armada is the sort of game that potentially interested parties will be drawn to immediately after seeing it on the table.

It's possible that someone might be unsatisfied with a 180 point starter match but then love full 400 point games, but that person isn't your wife.

In fact, having your wife play Armada over and over again, assuring her that she will like it "soon" will actually make her start to hate it.

Stick to the board games she actually likes.

TRY THIS:

200 pt game over 3x3 table, 3 rocks1station.

I made a MC80 list + 4 rogue YT24s. It simplifies things hugely. 1 ship, 4 squadrons. Big pow. I had a lady friend try this. She enjoyed the game.

Dodonna Pickle 3 rogues

Faction: Rebel Alliance
Points: 198/200

Commander: General Dodonna

Assault Objective: Advanced Gunnery
Defense Objective: Fire Lanes
Navigation Objective: Superior Positions

[ flagship ] MC80 Command Cruiser (106 points)
- General Dodonna ( 20 points)
- Skilled First Officer ( 1 points)
- Engine Techs ( 8 points)
- Electronic Countermeasures ( 7 points)
- H9 Turbolasers ( 8 points)
= 150 total ship cost

3 YT-2400s ( 48 points)

Card view link

Fleet

Very forgiving. You have engine Techs so that she can reposition, and SFO to dig up a command you need, and Rogue so you don't have to worry about squads that much. Very tough to kill.

If too many upgrades, just drop Engine Techs and H9 and go for 4 YT24s.

vs

2 Kittens

Faction: Galactic Empire
Points: 195/200

Commander: Admiral Motti

Assault Objective: Most Wanted
Defense Objective: Planetary Ion Cannon
Navigation Objective: Solar Corona

[ flagship ] Arquitens-class Light Cruiser (54 points)
- Admiral Motti ( 24 points)
- Captain Needa ( 2 points)
- Reinforced Blast Doors ( 5 points)
- Turbolaser Reroute Circuits ( 7 points)
= 92 total ship cost

Arquitens-class Light Cruiser (54 points)
- Skilled First Officer ( 1 points)
- Reinforced Blast Doors ( 5 points)
- Turbolaser Reroute Circuits ( 7 points)
= 67 total ship cost

2 Firespray-31s ( 36 points)

Card view link

Fleet

2 minutes ago, bleezy said:

You are not going to get your wife into Armada. Armada is the sort of game that potentially interested parties will be drawn to immediately after seeing it on the table.

It's possible that someone might be unsatisfied with a 180 point starter match but then love full 400 point games, but that person isn't your wife.

In fact, having your wife play Armada over and over again, assuring her that she will like it "soon" will actually make her start to hate it.

Stick to the board games she actually likes.

This would be my thoughts too. She played Armada. She doesn't like Armada. That is her stance right now.

Forcing more of the game down her throat isn't likely to make her want to like it any more - in point of fact, she's probably going to double down on the dislike because you're trying to MAKE her like it.

Maybe try to introduce her to X-Wing (an inferior game, I know) because it has a more personal touch with a lot fewer rules to remember (at least if you're not playing competitive cutthroat Latest Wave Combo List stuff). If she likes that, let her play it a while, THEN broach the Armada subject again.

If she likes Star Wars (something you haven't actually mentioned much other than her absolutely good reason for disliking Episode 2), then sell her on the appeal of having a nice display of the miniatures somewhere on a shelf, maybe even next to some X-Wing stuff.

Take my wife. She doesn't MIND Malifaux, she tried a demo game and pronounced it 'playable', and insisted I buy the Dreamer after I read his little story to her, but her focus is mostly on Super Dungeon Explore stuff. So that's fine. But when they put out the second edition of the RPG this summer I'm planning on introducing her into the world more with that and maybe getting her involved in the actual game.

Or not. My wife doesn't HAVE to like all the same things I do, and I just plain don't understand how she can enjoy that Gaea.com crap.

This is a very fun and engaging fleet:

1 ship, Dodonna with Rogue Bombers (for crits) with Grit, so you can move them around. Very entertaining.
200pt, On a 3x3 map, 3rocks1station, with easy objectives. Very few upgrade cards, very few rules, Rogue means she doesn't HAVE to use squadron commands.

You just tell her, don't let something get in front of the pickle, and use the 4 rogue bombers to help that. AND the pickle is incredibly hard to kill. All the upgrades are defensive and noob friendly. Walex gives you Braces all game long.

Pickle + 4 Lancers

Faction: Rebel Alliance
Points: 199/200

Commander: General Dodonna

Assault Objective: Advanced Gunnery
Defense Objective: Fire Lanes
Navigation Objective: Superior Positions

[ flagship ] MC80 Command Cruiser (106 points)
- General Dodonna ( 20 points)
- Walex Blissex ( 5 points)
- Medical Team ( 1 points)
- Electronic Countermeasures ( 7 points)
= 139 total ship cost

4 Lancer-class Pursuit Crafts ( 60 points)

Card view link

Fleet

Does she like to play the good guys? Give her an Ackbar MC80 Defiance and run a simple ISD list against her. She'll get to roll a ton of dice and it'll feel epic.

8 hours ago, Blail Blerg said:

TRY THIS:

200 pt game over 3x3 table, 3 rocks1station.

I made a MC80 list + 4 rogue YT24s. It simplifies things hugely. 1 ship, 4 squadrons. Big pow. I had a lady friend try this. She enjoyed the game.

Dodonna Pickle 3 rogues

Faction: Rebel Alliance
Points: 198/200

Commander: General Dodonna

Assault Objective: Advanced Gunnery
Defense Objective: Fire Lanes
Navigation Objective: Superior Positions

[ flagship ] MC80 Command Cruiser (106 points)
- General Dodonna ( 20 points)
- Skilled First Officer ( 1 points)
- Engine Techs ( 8 points)
- Electronic Countermeasures ( 7 points)
- H9 Turbolasers ( 8 points)
= 150 total ship cost

3 YT-2400s ( 48 points)

Card view link

Fleet

Very forgiving. You have engine Techs so that she can reposition, and SFO to dig up a command you need, and Rogue so you don't have to worry about squads that much. Very tough to kill.

If too many upgrades, just drop Engine Techs and H9 and go for 4 YT24s.

vs

2 Kittens

Faction: Galactic Empire
Points: 195/200

Commander: Admiral Motti

Assault Objective: Most Wanted
Defense Objective: Planetary Ion Cannon
Navigation Objective: Solar Corona

[ flagship ] Arquitens-class Light Cruiser (54 points)
- Admiral Motti ( 24 points)
- Captain Needa ( 2 points)
- Reinforced Blast Doors ( 5 points)
- Turbolaser Reroute Circuits ( 7 points)
= 92 total ship cost

Arquitens-class Light Cruiser (54 points)
- Skilled First Officer ( 1 points)
- Reinforced Blast Doors ( 5 points)
- Turbolaser Reroute Circuits ( 7 points)
= 67 total ship cost

2 Firespray-31s ( 36 points)

Card view link

Fleet

Instead of yt2400s. How about Han Solo? I mean what girl can resist Han Solo? But really, he is a simple and a squadron that she will actually know.

Also im impressed you got a single game! I'm happy when I get my wife to play pandemic legacy! She tried LOTR LCG once, but she didn't bite on that, so I long since gave up on the idea of armada.

Advice: Take what you can as long as it's fun for both. I did a test game with my SO, it wasn't for her and that is fine. There are plenty of other games we can enjoy together. Even if those are light-weight in comparison, it's still a lot of fun. And there is always hope to exland on that, Mice&Mystics actually got her into miniature painting, something I would never have expected! Who knows what will be next?

I run a monthly casual game day at our local store and encourage new players alot at these days.

The way i've found best so far is to introduce them slowly into the game as it is quite complex and being dropped in at the deep end quite unforgiving. To that end I start with fleets with just one upgrade per ship, then a 2 upgrade list and so on to ease them into it. Once they are confident then let loose the full lists. It seems to work quite nicely so far.

Hope that helps you

15 hours ago, DUR said:

Well, I got her into shooting... (although empowerment is a big part of the appeal for that one)

She's also naturally extremely competitive, which is why I'm bothering with this exercise at all, but I'll keep that in mind. In terms of her conflict-desire: she used to compete in martial arts tournaments on a regular basis, so I got that one covered (yes, I know: a keeper!)

Are you secretly me from the past?

It is really hard to get players into Armada that don't see the ships and instinctively state "I have to get this on the table". I got my wife to play, helped her construct a good list, talked her through basic strategy: "This is why I am moving here. What ship do you think you should activate next?"

She won. She said she had fun.

She said she had no desire to play another game.

She just isn't into miniatures, and that is okay.

I very much hesitate to say girlfriends, wives, females, and significant others in general won't enjoy the game. I do however acknowledge that PASSIONATE LOVE of Star Wars capital ship combat as a theme is the #1 selling point. It may be a good game, but it is an uphill battle to draw new players in. Good luck and I hope you succeed. And we see your wife posting about what an idiot you are with your fleet builds and how she routinely 9-2s you in a couple months time.

On ‎4‎/‎28‎/‎2017 at 6:14 AM, BiggsIRL said:

Are you secretly me from the past?

It is really hard to get players into Armada that don't see the ships and instinctively state "I have to get this on the table". I got my wife to play, helped her construct a good list, talked her through basic strategy: "This is why I am moving here. What ship do you think you should activate next?"

She won. She said she had fun.

She said she had no desire to play another game.

She just isn't into miniatures, and that is okay.

I very much hesitate to say girlfriends, wives, females, and significant others in general won't enjoy the game. I do however acknowledge that PASSIONATE LOVE of Star Wars capital ship combat as a theme is the #1 selling point. It may be a good game, but it is an uphill battle to draw new players in. Good luck and I hope you succeed. And we see your wife posting about what an idiot you are with your fleet builds and how she routinely 9-2s you in a couple months time.

Yeah, it's tough. I think part of it is the drive to get better, be more efficient...whatever you can do to make your strategy more effective. Some people just don't have that as it relates to gaming. They may put that energy into other things instead (jobs, kids...etc). I won't say mine had no fun playing a ship only match, but its a significant time investment in a niche type of tabletop game (even if its the coolest looking tabletop game ever...sigh).

That or maybe my mix is off. I've been running 1 part rebels, 1 part imperials, 1 part kids are in bed. Maybe I need to follow Undeadguy's advice and add a splash or two of wine.