On 4/29/2017 at 6:28 PM, Punning Pundit said:

PTL Tycho with Stealth device was 32 points. Did _not_ reach god mode. It wasn't the 2 points that kept him from it, either.

PTL soontir with Stealth was 33 points. Also didn't reach god status.

Umm, hmm. I was around during Wave 2, and I can assure you that both ships were definitely almost impossible to kill in 60 minutes (as the time limit was typically shorter back then), especially because there were so many 2-Die attacks in the meta still. Tycho was a monster to try and kill, but his 2-die attack has always kept him from defining the meta or being worth his points since he rarely shot down enough TIEs to be worth it. But my point stands in that NO ONE, especially back then, has ever said Tycho was easy to kill. Soontir had always been god mode, and even before Autothrusters while Double Falcons were a popular list he was good enough to be winning large Regionals, sometimes paired with two Bounty Hunters even (where he did most of the heavy-lifting).

So I guess maybe my memory is a bit different than yours.

55 minutes ago, AllWingsStandyingBy said:

Umm, hmm. I was around during Wave 2, and I can assure you that both ships were definitely almost impossible to kill in 60 minutes (as the time limit was typically shorter back then), especially because there were so many 2-Die attacks in the meta still. Tycho was a monster to try and kill, but his 2-die attack has always kept him from defining the meta or being worth his points since he rarely shot down enough TIEs to be worth it. But my point stands in that NO ONE, especially back then, has ever said Tycho was easy to kill.

Being hard to kill doesn't make you god-mode if you aren't killing enough stuff yourself.

55 minutes ago, AllWingsStandyingBy said:

Soontir had always been god mode, and even before Autothrusters while Double Falcons were a popular list he was good enough to be winning large Regionals, sometimes paired with two Bounty Hunters even (where he did most of the heavy-lifting).

So I guess maybe my memory is a bit different than yours.

Winning regionals ALSO does not make you god-mode, unelss you're winning almost all of them (paratanni I would argue winning multiple system opens and tons of regionals would have qualified as "god-mode"). Soontir was certainly good, and definitely a PITA to kill, but...

35 minutes ago, VanderLegion said:

Being hard to kill doesn't make you god-mode if you aren't killing enough stuff yourself.

Winning regionals ALSO does not make you god-mode, unelss you're winning almost all of them (paratanni I would argue winning multiple system opens and tons of regionals would have qualified as "god-mode"). Soontir was certainly good, and definitely a PITA to kill, but...

Okay, you guys win. The fact that most people now consider a 5HP 4-Agility ship with two Focus tokens 'easy to kill' is in no way indicative of a ramp up of offensive and defensive power. The fact that Soontir could literally solo 100pt lists by himself (seriously, a guy in Australia went above 0.500 with him and only him in a 35pt list at a Regional) or the fact that Soontir defined the Imperial meta-game from Whisper's nerf all the way up through the advent of X7s doesn't mean Soontir has ever been god mode. Oh, but we are willing to whine about Parattani as god mode? Do you not remember how many Spring 2016 Regionals were won by Soontir-led Palp Aces? Pretty much every single one of them except those that Torp Scouts or Dengaroo won, and Dengaroo was late to the party. But sure, parattani is fashionable to whine about it, so sure, let's whine about parattani while denying anything before it was of similar power, despite empirical results from past seasons to the contrary.

I really don't know why anyone bothers to say anything on these boards except "GUNBOAT!"

1 hour ago, AllWingsStandyingBy said:

Okay, you guys win. The fact that most people now consider a 5HP 4-Agility ship with two Focus tokens 'easy to kill' is in no way indicative of a ramp up of offensive and defensive power. The fact that Soontir could literally solo 100pt lists by himself (seriously, a guy in Australia went above 0.500 with him and only him in a 35pt list at a Regional) or the fact that Soontir defined the Imperial meta-game from Whisper's nerf all the way up through the advent of X7s doesn't mean Soontir has ever been god mode. Oh, but we are willing to whine about Parattani as god mode? Do you not remember how many Spring 2016 Regionals were won by Soontir-led Palp Aces? Pretty much every single one of them except those that Torp Scouts or Dengaroo won, and Dengaroo was late to the party. But sure, parattani is fashionable to whine about it, so sure, let's whine about parattani while denying anything before it was of similar power, despite empirical results from past seasons to the contrary.

I really don't know why anyone bothers to say anything on these boards except "GUNBOAT!"

5 hp 4 agility with 2 focus is easier to kill than 3 hp, 4 agility (until hit the first time) and focus/focus/evade/autothrusters/palp. Focus tokens don't help if you don't roll eye-balls, so they're less flexible than evade tokens.

And the guy that ook soontir with a 65 point bid to a regional only went 2-3, with those 2 wins being by killing a single small ship and running away until time. It's not like he went 4-1 or 5-0 or something. It's not like it's something someone's going to do if they're trying to actually win.

As for the 2016 regional season, if you look at meta-wing palp aces was the number 4 archetype for the season. Top was torp scouts (which would be the god-mode list of the season). Mynock special and imperial assholes were both higher than palp aces as far as archetypes go, neither of which used soontir. Soontir himself was the nubmer 8 ship for the season. Again, hardly seems "godlike" to me.

As for soontir-led palp aces winning pretty much every single regional before torp scouts or dengaroo? Uboats first reported tournament win on the

2016 regionalr results thread was the 10th tournament on the list. Wanna know what the first 9 tournaments on the list have in common? Not a single one of them has soontir in it. How did he win "pretty much every single one"? I had to go down to like the 19th regional on the list to find the first one with soontir in the list, and that's Duncan Howard. He made plenty of top cuts and runner-ups, but very few actual wins.

Compare that to paratanni:

Meta-wing archetypes: Paratanni is #1

Meta-wing pilots: Manaroo is #1, Fenn Rau is #2, Asajj is #5

Meanwhile, if you look at the regional results thread for 2016/2017 season, the first reported paratanni win is on November 13th (so the day after the season started)

1 hour ago, AllWingsStandyingBy said:

Okay, you guys win. The fact that most people now consider a 5HP 4-Agility ship with two Focus tokens 'easy to kill' is in no way indicative of a ramp up of offensive and defensive power. The fact that Soontir could literally solo 100pt lists by himself (seriously, a guy in Australia went above 0.500 with him and only him in a 35pt list at a Regional) or the fact that Soontir defined the Imperial meta-game from Whisper's nerf all the way up through the advent of X7s doesn't mean Soontir has ever been god mode. Oh, but we are willing to whine about Parattani as god mode? Do you not remember how many Spring 2016 Regionals were won by Soontir-led Palp Aces? Pretty much every single one of them except those that Torp Scouts or Dengaroo won, and Dengaroo was late to the party. But sure, parattani is fashionable to whine about it, so sure, let's whine about parattani while denying anything before it was of similar power, despite empirical results from past seasons to the contrary.

I really don't know why anyone bothers to say anything on these boards except "GUNBOAT!"

There is no convincing these people. They'll argue and argue until their mouth is dry that [BLATANTLY OVERPOWERED META DOMINATING SHIP] isn't overpowered, that it's "just really, really good, but it's not overpowered".

A favorite argument of theirs is to say that, "not liking a ship isn't a reason to nerf it." The whole point of the game is to enjoy it, so in order to win arguments they need to take the argument that something isn't fun away from you. That's the most valid possible argument you could ever make about something in this game.

And then FFG nerfs [BLATANTLY OVERPOWERED META DOMINATING SHIP] and they're wrong, and the game is better for it, and they shut up. Every ******* time.

And then another [BLATANTLY OVERPOWERED META DOMINATING SHIP] is released or discovered, and it starts all over again.

On 28/04/2017 at 4:11 PM, JohnWE said:

Next we'll be seeing perma-cloaked Whisper.

Who could possibly care? It was never the cloaking mechanic that got people's knickers all twisted up, it was the decloak/reposition.

a perma cloaked whisper would be 44 points of useless plastic.