34 minutes ago, AllWingsStandyingBy said:

Yes, based on other rulings about Feedback Array (e.g. you can Feedback while you have Blinded Pilot).

This is one of FFGs classic contradictory rulings. It says you can do one thing when blinded, but if you have a weapons disabled token, you cannot feedback (if I'm recalling correctly), meaning there are essentially 2 of the same situations in the game which have different rulings. As such, I don't think we can say for certain you can feedback when cloaked.

1 minute ago, Kdubb said:

This is one of FFGs classic contradictory rulings. It says you can do one thing when blinded, but if you have a weapons disabled token, you cannot feedback (if I'm recalling correctly), meaning there are essentially 2 of the same situations in the game which have different rulings. As such, I don't think we can say for certain you can feedback when cloaked.

But it's a token! And it's got a little no-no sign on the attack symbol. That means it's special!

I can see cloak being deferent and allowing feedback, but Blinded Pilot is basically a non-attack token on a damage card. Oh well, we don't get paid to make stupid rulings like they do.

9 minutes ago, Kdubb said:

This is one of FFGs classic contradictory rulings. It says you can do one thing when blinded, but if you have a weapons disabled token, you cannot feedback (if I'm recalling correctly), meaning there are essentially 2 of the same situations in the game which have different rulings. As such, I don't think we can say for certain you can feedback when cloaked.

I remembered, this is my thread containing Frank's reported e-mail ruling:

Based on this I think we can certainly say that you can feedback while cloaked unless FAQed otherwise.

7 minutes ago, Kdubb said:

This is one of FFGs classic contradictory rulings. It says you can do one thing when blinded, but if you have a weapons disabled token, you cannot feedback (if I'm recalling correctly), meaning there are essentially 2 of the same situations in the game which have different rulings. As such, I don't think we can say for certain you can feedback when cloaked.

You also can't feedback while you are on an asteroid.

I'd be more interested to know if you can use EMP device (same wording as feedback) so I would assume any ruling on feedback would apply...

I like the concept of permacloaking but doing so after your cloaking device is gone is just straight up dumb.

If this game were done merely through numbers with a small collection of chits or pixels representing stuff on a non-descript plane, then sure - this makes as much sense as anything else.

But since this is a minis game and gives the illusion of being anchored to something (the SW universe) I want it to thematically fit that context.

Sure, SW physics does not reflect the accrued physics understanding of our species, and well funded SW hegemonies funnel limited resources into failed concepts repeatedly without significant gain (no really...THIS base will be bigger and waaay better) - but until I see (in a SW movie or licensed holiday special) a SW character smear auto-catalytic self-healing cloak-o-matic goo on their ship that remains effective AFTER the cloaking device goes to the extra-planar junk heap, I'm calling shenanigans. Minis games need a mechanics/fluff balance, and this is out of whack.

50 minutes ago, Kdubb said:

This is one of FFGs classic contradictory rulings. It says you can do one thing when blinded, but if you have a weapons disabled token, you cannot feedback (if I'm recalling correctly), meaning there are essentially 2 of the same situations in the game which have different rulings. As such, I don't think we can say for certain you can feedback when cloaked.

You also can't Feedback when you're on an asteroid. The salient part is if you have an opportunity to attack (when you're on a rock or have a weapons disabled token you have no such opportunity). That doesn't mean that feedbacking counts as an attack or anything, though, just that you have to have an opportunity to attack to use it.

Next we'll be seeing perma-cloaked Whisper.

1 hour ago, AllWingsStandyingBy said:

Wow, I love how a ship with 5HP, 5 Agility and 2 Focus per turn is considered easy to kill garbage these days.

Back in Waves 1-3, that would have been god-mode levels of efficiency, and even by TIE Phantom Wave 4 standards it would have been great for only 30pts.

Power creep much?

How are you getting up to 5 agility and 2 focus per turn? He's only getting up to 4 agility, and he's only ever going to have one focus token, max without outside assistance.

And besides, certainyl for my part my criticism wasn't that he's easy to kill, it's that it's hard to do enough damage with him to offset his cost when his attacks are nonexistent.

Sarco Plank can get you up to 5 agility if you perform a 3-speed maneuver. Attanni gives you the two focus (one from mindlink, one from your action). However, on turns that you get the second focus, you can't drop a bomb or use your tractor array.

Regardless, I think this build will be a funny thing to bring to casuals but won't be anywhere near as effective as a pacifist build like Ahsoka. I could be wrong though.

2 minutes ago, mkevans80 said:

Sarco Plank can get you up to 5 agility if you perform a 3-speed maneuver. Attanni gives you the two focus (one from mindlink, one from your action). However, on turns that you get the second focus, you can't drop a bomb or use your tractor array.

Regardless, I think this build will be a funny thing to bring to casuals but won't be anywhere near as effective as a pacifist build like Ahsoka. I could be wrong though.

No, I think you're right. Ahsoka is not powerful because of her ability to drop bombs, but because of Sabine to garantee that at least some damage gets through. A token from a cluster bomb does 1 damage on average and landing all 3 on the same target is not an easy task. Still, I'm sure it would be fun to try.

4 minutes ago, mkevans80 said:

Sarco Plank can get you up to 5 agility if you perform a 3-speed maneuver. Attanni gives you the two focus (one from mindlink, one from your action). However, on turns that you get the second focus, you can't drop a bomb or use your tractor array.

Regardless, I think this build will be a funny thing to bring to casuals but won't be anywhere near as effective as a pacifist build like Ahsoka. I could be wrong though.

Sarco can't; cloak increases your agility, and his ability replaces your agility. He can only get up to 3 normally or 4 with Cloak.

I missed Mindlink, admittedly.

He's not even close to a patch on Ahsoka; she's immune to damage for much of the game, he's very much not, and she gets her actions at PS12 not ps 7 and can pass them to others, which makes a huge difference.

17 minutes ago, thespaceinvader said:

How are you getting up to 5 agility and 2 focus per turn? He's only getting up to 4 agility, and he's only ever going to have one focus token, max without outside assistance.

And besides, certainyl for my part my criticism wasn't that he's easy to kill, it's that it's hard to do enough damage with him to offset his cost when his attacks are nonexistent.

When he's not in range, he's can just focus for Mindlink.

When he closes in, you can drop a Cluster Mine, reverse, proc Pattern Analyzer, space tug something into those cluster mines, and then receive the stress.

Pattern Analyzer would be pretty good for triggering Mindlink too.

With 2 attack dice, your attacks are already non-existent. I suppose with tractor array they're workable I guess. Fenn and Teroch or Fenn and Guri would be responsible for damage dealing. That's kind of how Mindlink lists already work, they don't always have 3 attacks going, or if they do it's Manaroo's weak one.

Should the situation warrant it, you could always decloak and start attacking. Your opponent may not want to "waste" his attacks on your stupid tug boat and then a few turns later it's behind something at range one putting it onto a rock and attacking.

Guys guys...the thing is how much is your effort spent for killing this guy?

yes he will go down. Everyone in this game go down if focussed.

But your really spent that cluster for him (and still not sure if it will be enough)? How many TLTs? How many shots?

This guy is a 30 point scum biggs. Not bad at all.

"Going down" is not equal to garbage. This build is pretty good, high skill level anyway.

42 minutes ago, thespaceinvader said:

How are you getting up to 5 agility and 2 focus per turn? He's only getting up to 4 agility, and he's only ever going to have one focus token, max without outside assistance.

And besides, certainyl for my part my criticism wasn't that he's easy to kill, it's that it's hard to do enough damage with him to offset his cost when his attacks are nonexistent.

2 Agility Base + 2 (Cloaked) + 1 (Stealth)

Innate Focus + Focus from Mindlink.

5 minutes ago, AllWingsStandyingBy said:

2 Agility Base + 2 (Cloaked) + 1 (Stealth)

Innate Focus + Focus from Mindlink.

Spacetug Tractor Array is a modification. I suppose stealth device is an option.

2 hours ago, Pewpewpew BOOM said:

I like the concept of permacloaking but doing so after your cloaking device is gone is just straight up dumb.

If this game were done merely through numbers with a small collection of chits or pixels representing stuff on a non-descript plane, then sure - this makes as much sense as anything else.

But since this is a minis game and gives the illusion of being anchored to something (the SW universe) I want it to thematically fit that context.

Sure, SW physics does not reflect the accrued physics understanding of our species, and well funded SW hegemonies funnel limited resources into failed concepts repeatedly without significant gain (no really...THIS base will be bigger and waaay better) - but until I see (in a SW movie or licensed holiday special) a SW character smear auto-catalytic self-healing cloak-o-matic goo on their ship that remains effective AFTER the cloaking device goes to the extra-planar junk heap, I'm calling shenanigans. Minis games need a mechanics/fluff balance, and this is out of whack.

While I see where you're coming from, that ship has sailed away a long time ago. In this game we have (by no means an exhaustive list):

-Scum and Empire giving a **** about a Rebel Captive

-Robots getting stressed and doing drugs

-Boba Fett powering on his jetpack, flying to an enemy ship mid-combat, scrubbing the ship's name (title) off the hull then leaving

-People that weren't even alive at the same time flying together (like Kylo Ren and Palaptine)

-2 dudes that refit your ship mid combat (Azmorigan and Vizago)

Singling out this trick seems weird.

1 hour ago, AllWingsStandyingBy said:

2 Agility Base + 2 (Cloaked) + 1 (Stealth)

Innate Focus + Focus from Mindlink.

1 hour ago, Turbo Toker said:

Spacetug Tractor Array is a modification. I suppose stealth device is an option.

This. Plus, if your action is focus you're not tractoring so your damage is even worse.

Just now, thespaceinvader said:

This. Plus, if your action is focus you're not tractoring so your damage is even worse.

...if you're cloaked, you aren't shooting anyway.

Edit: Or do you mean for the rest of your list?

Just now, VanderLegion said:

...if you're cloaked, you aren't shooting anyway.

Edit: Or do you mean for the rest of your list?

Just so. The damage from a permanently cloaked quad is bombs, tbeams and blocking.

15 hours ago, Pewpewpew BOOM said:

I like the concept of permacloaking but doing so after your cloaking device is gone is just straight up dumb.

If this game were done merely through numbers with a small collection of chits or pixels representing stuff on a non-descript plane, then sure - this makes as much sense as anything else.

But since this is a minis game and gives the illusion of being anchored to something (the SW universe) I want it to thematically fit that context.

Sure, SW physics does not reflect the accrued physics understanding of our species, and well funded SW hegemonies funnel limited resources into failed concepts repeatedly without significant gain (no really...THIS base will be bigger and waaay better) - but until I see (in a SW movie or licensed holiday special) a SW character smear auto-catalytic self-healing cloak-o-matic goo on their ship that remains effective AFTER the cloaking device goes to the extra-planar junk heap, I'm calling shenanigans. Minis games need a mechanics/fluff balance, and this is out of whack.

Doot-doot-deal with it. *sunglasses descend onto face*

*reverses rapidly and turns invisible*

14 hours ago, dotswarlock said:

No, I think you're right. Ahsoka is not powerful because of her ability to drop bombs, but because of Sabine to garantee that at least some damage gets through. A token from a cluster bomb does 1 damage on average and landing all 3 on the same target is not an easy task. Still, I'm sure it would be fun to try.

Maybe you go for Conner Nets or one of the normal bombs then.

Remember, you can still drop these bombs from your rear guides normally. Constable Zuvio's ability gives you a lot of flexibility.

With pattern analyzer you can also sloop then bomb drop

Flipping hilarious.

It doesn't have to be great; it just has to be fun, and this would draw ire like my perma-cloaked "Can't touch this" Sigma Phantom (Sigma w/Sensor Jammer, Stealth Device, and Rebel Captive. People just can't help themselves -- they shoot at it.)

25 minutes ago, Hawkstrike said:

Flipping hilarious.

It doesn't have to be great; it just has to be fun, and this would draw ire like my perma-cloaked "Can't touch this" Sigma Phantom (Sigma w/Sensor Jammer, Stealth Device, and Rebel Captive. People just can't help themselves -- they shoot at it.)

Since Palp has been nerfed, maybe you go for a permacloaked Phantom with Hux or Mara Jade or something.

You have at least 29 points to work with now.

On 4/28/2017 at 6:45 AM, AllWingsStandyingBy said:

Wow, I love how a ship with 5HP, 5 Agility and 2 Focus per turn is considered easy to kill garbage these days.

Back in Waves 1-3, that would have been god-mode levels of efficiency, and even by TIE Phantom Wave 4 standards it would have been great for only 30pts.

Power creep much?

PTL Tycho with Stealth device was 32 points. Did _not_ reach god mode. It wasn't the 2 points that kept him from it, either.

PTL soontir with Stealth was 33 points. Also didn't reach god status.

39 minutes ago, Punning Pundit said:

PTL Tycho with Stealth device was 32 points. Did _not_ reach god mode. It wasn't the 2 points that kept him from it, either.

PTL soontir with Stealth was 33 points. Also didn't reach god status.

Those ships didn't also have Mindlink, Bombs, or automatic Tractor Beams.

Tycho can do a bunch of neat **** but at the end of the day he's just pissing in the wind with his garbage 2 attack dice.

Constable Zuvio can do something that's actually useful, even if it's just not dying and feeding other ships Mindlink focuses.