What happened to this thread

4 minutes ago, Undeadguy said:

What happened to this thread

God only (and maybe @Drasnighta and @geek19 ) knows. I certainly don't

25 minutes ago, GiledPallaeon said:

God only (and maybe @Drasnighta and @geek19 ) knows. I certainly don't

@Hockeyzombie said team peridot, so I made another Crystal Gems reference.

Team Tiger Millionaire?

This thread is a disaster area... it needs quarantining ASAP.

18 hours ago, Drasnighta said:

Well, We've been arguing it since reveal, after all.

And yes, I am getting annoyed. Mostly because unlike what I aspire to do - utilise logical discussion and rules precedence - I instead get veiled abuse, snickering and hyperbole. Which is intended to do nothing but annoy and belittle.

But I'm allowed to be annoyed.

Just as people are allowed to annoy.

This is the internet, after all.

I'm not really trying to be annoying, I'm just succeeding without effort. I believe that means I'm living the American Dream.

Nostromoid may have been rather sarcastic about it, but his post does kind of summarize my argument. As I've said, I don't really have an opinion on whether or not the mystery title will allow Rebels to take the ship. But if it does then Nostromoid demonstrated why I would consider that absolute proof that you only check your list for legality after you've finished building it. Sorry if I came across as making fun of you, I was mostly just mildly frustrated by what I considered to be a dumb argument.

As for my #TeamMauve/Peridot thing, I'm just jumping in on the joke Nostromoid started.

Honestly at this point, I kind of hope the title doesn't do any cross-faction shenanigans. That would be neat and all but can you imagine the reaction on these forums if the Quasar preview started hyping up how there's only one title, but boy howdy it's a doozy!

...And then it's just something like "when you reveal a command dial you may gain a squadron token." Or anything else that's pretty good but not in a weird, unprecedented way like a faction-changing title would be. Imagine watching new members of the forum try to figure out, months after release, why people seem to have this weird aversion to the Quasar title(s) despite being perfectly playable. If that happens please respond to all questions about the titles with that picture of Leia looking frustrated.

1 hour ago, Hockeyzombie said:

I'm not really trying to be annoying, I'm just succeeding without effort. I believe that means I'm living the American Dream.

Nostromoid may have been rather sarcastic about it, but his post does kind of summarize my argument. As I've said, I don't really have an opinion on whether or not the mystery title will allow Rebels to take the ship. But if it does then Nostromoid demonstrated why I would consider that absolute proof that you only check your list for legality after you've finished building it. Sorry if I came across as making fun of you, I was mostly just mildly frustrated by what I considered to be a dumb argument.

As for my #TeamMauve/Peridot thing, I'm just jumping in on the joke Nostromoid started.

Honestly at this point, I kind of hope the title doesn't do any cross-faction shenanigans. That would be neat and all but can you imagine the reaction on these forums if the Quasar preview started hyping up how there's only one title, but boy howdy it's a doozy!

...And then it's just something like "when you reveal a command dial you may gain a squadron token." Or anything else that's pretty good but not in a weird, unprecedented way like a faction-changing title would be. Imagine watching new members of the forum try to figure out, months after release, why people seem to have this weird aversion to the Quasar title(s) despite being perfectly playable. If that happens please respond to all questions about the titles with that picture of Leia looking frustrated.

Then let me summarize what the #OtherTeam is saying.

Could that title do this? Yes. It could be. But it would open a discussion about fleet building that that title must clarify. Not saying the title won't do, just saying the title should do. Someone say that the mere existence of the title would clarify that, maybe not as the mere existence of all kind of upgrades card don't allow you to put them wherever you want. So with the title will be require the clarification about something is not clear in the rules. Dras actually added in his first answer that his position was based partially on advice given by Mr. Gernes even when he didn't say that was something definitive.

The thing is that the easiest way to add a cross faction quasar would be a unique rebel quasar ship card, not a title. Easier, indisputable and money-maker.

7 hours ago, ovinomanc3r said:

Then let me summarize what the #OtherTeam is saying.

Could that title do this? Yes. It could be. But it would open a discussion about fleet building that that title must clarify. Not saying the title won't do, just saying the title should do. Someone say that the mere existence of the title would clarify that, maybe not as the mere existence of all kind of upgrades card don't allow you to put them wherever you want. So with the title will be require the clarification about something is not clear in the rules. Dras actually added in his first answer that his position was based partially on advice given by Mr. Gernes even when he didn't say that was something definitive.

The thing is that the easiest way to add a cross faction quasar would be a unique rebel quasar ship card, not a title. Easier, indisputable and money-maker.

I didn't see anything from Gernes, but it's possible that I missed it. My reasoning for the Rebel Quasar title being proof that list building isn't procedural is that as Dras has pointed out, the upgrade literally can't do anything if you have to check legality after each upgrade. I don't know what Gernes said but is it possible he meant that it's easiest to spot rule-breaking lists if you do it that way? I mean, the second I go over 134 in squadrons I make adjustments so that I don't accidentally complete a list that can't be played.

I don't see that a Rebel title would cause any issues with the rules as they currently exist. I can see why it would probably end up in an FAQ, it's just that if the title does exist then it seems inevitable that the FAQ will basically say "yes, you can add the Quasar to your Rebel lists as long as this title is equipped to it." At present if it can be taken in a Rebel list it looks like it has to be through a title, since there's no sign of a Rebel Alliance back for the card. I suppose that could be something they left out of the wave six reveal so they could drop it as the big bombshell of the Quasar reveal. Or maybe the Armada designers that check this forum are reading this thread and rolling their eyes at the nonsense we come up with. If so, hey guys! When's the Executor coming out and will it be the herald of Epic Armada?

I agree with you on just making an actual Rebel Quasar being simpler. That also allows them to tweak it a bit, by adding or removing upgrade slots or adjusting the points cost. Make it feel a little different than the Imperial Quasar. That would be a good thing to include if/when they make another campaign box. I've been hoping that they add a special mission that lets you "steal" an enemy ship--like, if you capture Kuat you can add (slightly modified) Star Destroyers to a Rebel list, or something. Maybe certain ships require control of certain planets before you can add them to your list, but having access to an enemy ship lets you take slightly weaker versions of it or something. That would probably be a campaign only thing but they could add cross-faction ships that are playable in regular games to the box along with the campaign only variants.

Why do the Rebels need the Quasar other than thematic reasons anyways?

6 minutes ago, TallGiraffe said:

Why do the Rebels need the Quasar other than thematic reasons anyways?

Yup, we have a Pelta. It's like a Quasar in that it can have Expanded Hangar Bays and Command 4 squadrons, and you can attach Raymus Antilles to it for 5, and even go super crazy and have Leia push 5 with it, all with All Fighters Follow Me! I'm a bigger fan of the Pelta myself. We don't need your dumb ol' Imperial triangles anyways!

12 minutes ago, geek19 said:

Yup, we have a Pelta. It's like a Quasar in that it can have Expanded Hangar Bays and Command 4 squadrons, and you can attach Raymus Antilles to it for 5, and even go super crazy and have Leia push 5 with it, all with All Fighters Follow Me! I'm a bigger fan of the Pelta myself. We don't need your dumb ol' Imperial triangles anyways!

Until Darth Vader (squadron) destroyed your precious Pelta...

1 minute ago, ovinomanc3r said:

Until Darth Vader (squadron) destroyed your precious Pelta...

That's on me for not fielding squadrons, then, isn't it, haha?

1 hour ago, geek19 said:

Yup, we have a Pelta. It's like a Quasar in that it can have Expanded Hangar Bays and Command 4 squadrons, and you can attach Raymus Antilles to it for 5, and even go super crazy and have Leia push 5 with it, all with All Fighters Follow Me! I'm a bigger fan of the Pelta myself. We don't need your dumb ol' Imperial triangles anyways!

And you can turn a hammerhead into a cheap squadron pusher as well with flight controllers.

37 minutes ago, TallGiraffe said:

And you can turn a hammerhead into a cheap squadron pusher as well with flight controllers.

If they're Squadron 1, they're Raiders in pocket carrier configuration, but probably less combat effective. If they're Squadron 2, they'll be ubiquitous. Either way, it's a far more viable tactic for the Rebels than the Imperials.

1 hour ago, TallGiraffe said:

And you can turn a hammerhead into a cheap squadron pusher as well with flight controllers.

Hammerheads make great, cheap Star Destroyer pushers too.

1 minute ago, Derpzilla88 said:

Hammerheads make great, cheap Star Destroyer pushers too.

Need the lightbringer

@Drasnighta even if it were procedural, where do you get your procedure from?

2 hours ago, FourDogsInaHorseSuit said:

@Drasnighta even if it were procedural, where do you get your procedure from?

By "procedural" he means that first you choose a faction, then add a ship. From there, after each addition (ship, squadron, or upgrade) you do a legality check. So I decide I'm Imperials and add an ISD. ISD is Imperial and I have the points, so I'm fine. Next I add Relentless to it. Relentless is an Imperial title, equipped to the correct ship and I have the points. Jolly good, moving on. This process continues until you either stop adding things or do something you can't. For example, I add an MC80. That's a Rebel ship in my Imperial list, can't do that. I reverse the last addition and the list is once again legal.

By this logic the faction-changing title fundamentally can't work because the process would go "I add a Quasar to my Rebels list. Can't do that, have to go back." So you would never get to the part where you can actually equip the title and make it legal. I've argued that if the title does allow Rebels to use the Quasar, then it must be taken as proof that lists are not built in the way I described and you only have to check for legality after you consider it finished (but with time to correct it, just in case).

Apparently someone that works on Armada (Gernes) suggested that lists are built procedurally but currently that isn't an official thing. I haven't seen what Gernes said so I can't say if he meant it as a suggestion or if he felt it was relevant to how upgrades are designed, but I'll take Dras' word for it that something along those lines was said. I just see it as subject to change since it would be very awkward for them to make a faction-changing title if it worked that way.

Of course it should be emphasized that the title is only conjecture and there's literally no evidence that the Quasar can be taken in a Rebel fleet, so this could all be totally beside the point.

You could also have a title that changes your faction from Imp to Rebel along with the ship.

1) Pick faction: Imp

2) Pick ship: Quasar

3) Pick title: Phoenix Home

Title changes your faction to Rebel and the ship to Rebel.

4+) Start adding Rebel ships/upgrades to your fleet.

The next big thing is gonna be the 2-faction VSD: Imp and Corporate Sector Authority.

Yes, I know what what a procedure is . What I'm asking is where he or anyone else got that order from.

On 5/2/2017 at 10:52 AM, geek19 said:

@Hockeyzombie said team peridot, so I made another Crystal Gems reference.

Team Tiger Millionaire?

Team Avatar don't care. Team Avatar don't give a ****.

As for the broader argument, my position is simple: the state of any given ship or squadron is irrelevant until it actually arrives on the table. The icons in the card can be changed, why not the faction symbol too?

I'd also like to point out that if there was a title that made the Quasar Fire a Rebel ship, then the Rebels get two new ships in wave 6 while the Imperials only get one. That seems a little unfair in my opinion.

On 2017-05-12 at 0:34 PM, Derpzilla88 said:

I'd also like to point out that if there was a title that made the Quasar Fire a Rebel ship, then the Rebels get two new ships in wave 6 while the Imperials only get one. That seems a little unfair in my opinion.

War is by nature... unfair

Bring me the Unique Quasar for the Reb's and the number you want in your fleet for the Imp's

1 hour ago, DOMSWAT911 said:

War is by nature... unfair

Bring me the Unique Quasar for the Reb's and the number you want in your fleet for the Imp's

Is it really going to be worth having two in an Imperial fleet? They look pretty frail. That would be a lot of squadron activations, but two Quasars seems both redundant and very, very easy to kill with anything that can get near them. As always it depends on how many points they cost and how many upgrades you want to put on them, but even with the cheapest guess I've heard they look like 80+ easy points if you can catch them out of position. For two of them, I mean.