Irresponsible speculation, part the Third

By Eugene Earnshaw, in Legend of the Five Rings: The Card Game

Lots of cool design decisions that we already know about, but lots still unknown. Here are some things I am curious about, and irresponsible speculation that will likely be wrong:

Imperial Favor : We know it's in the game. Questions are, how do you get it, and what does it do.

My speculation : It works very similarly to the original favor. Once per turn, the player with the highest honor can bow a personality to take the imperial favor. It can be used to send home a personality from battle bowed, to rehonor a personality, or to draw a card. Further speculation: you can use the favor to honor a personality -- it can move a character up an 'honor level', from dishonored to normal, or from normal to honorable. I also wouldn't be surprised if the battle action is cut or altered -- maybe it can only send home small people or something.

Alternatively, maybe it is an effect that the highest honor player gets automatically at the beginning of the turn, but if that is the case, it might be toned down somewhat.

If this is right, then maybe the favor gives a built in mechanic that can let people crawl to honor wins: the player ahead in honor can lobby, use it to honor a personality that is out of fate, and gains their glory in honor at the end of the turn. Rinse and repeat. Of course, they can also gain by winning attacks using the ring of air, even if they can't break provinces.

Actions and Phases: From various card texts, attacking back and forth takes place during the conflict phase. I think that most actions that would have been limited, open, or battle in the CCG is likely to read: Action: During the conflict phase... Even control effects are likely going to be mostly used during the conflict phase. There will be no rules of presence or relevance. Instead, many effects will specify that they have to affect an attacking, defending, or participating character.

Why? Interactivity is a good design goal, and the existence of political conflicts and political strength (plus the fact that you can defend without risking annihilation) means that there is no structural thing that stops the most pacifistic phoenix or crane deck from defending at battles. Even more control type effects might need to be performed often by people at the conflict -- so maybe the equivalent of Shosuro Maru might exist, but it would read something like 'During a political battle, if Maru is participating, bow Maru: The opposing player must choose and bow a character.' I don't think there will be many effects that can be generically played outside the conflict phase to bow, dishonor, or kill other characters.

Victory Conditions: It's pretty clear that province breaking will be a win condition for most clans at least sometimes, and probably the main win condition for most clans. Will there be clans that don't typically win through breaking provinces? Let's make bold predictions by clan:

Crab: Only province breaking. Military focus.

Crane: 50-50 province breaking/honor wins. Has the tools to opportunistically dishonor win if the opponent makes risky bids. Court focus. Could be dedicated honor wins, but I doubt it -- their spoiled cards have a LOT of raw courtly strength, including an 0/3 for 1 and a +4 court strength attachment for 2.

Dragon: Mostly province breaking wins. Balanced focus. Can win by honor if opponent bids risky and the game stalls.

Lion: Mostly province breaking. Military only. Probably can be built to switch to an honor win if needed.

Phoenix: I am guessing this is the one clan that primarily wins by honor. Doesn't have great either military or court stats: wins by saving provinces with battle control effects until they hit 25.

Scorpion: I would like to see this as 50-50 province breaking/dishonor wins. Courtly focus, but more balanced than crane. Probably will be more like 75/25 province busting/dishonor, or even less if there aren't many actual dishonor tools (as opposed to control tools).

Unicorn: Province breaking, military focus. Someday there will be a battle maiden honor switch deck, but probably not in the base set.

I think, or at least hope, the Imperial Favor isn't simply just limited to who ever has the highest honor. In keeping with the idea of player interactivity, I think it could be a sort of fifth 'conflict' where both players have the opportunity to send someone to the Imperial Court. Perhaps this is a contest of political action or even a personalities' glory? This would also keep in line with the idea that the Scorpion can play dishonorably but can still claim the Imperial Favor through their courtiers (Shoju/Kachiko).

Our only information on the Favor so far is:

"After all conflicts have resolved, one of the players will receive the Imperial Favor, a powerful force that we will explore in future gameplay previews."

Given FFG's tendencies in other LCGs, in which they link status effects to events/phases that just took place, a presumption will be the awarding of the Favor will be based how each player did in the conflict phase. This gives an additional carrot/stick for decks to strive for in the conflict phase beyond just province breaking, and also provokes more interactivity between decks (which the designers said they wanted), in that you have to actually get in your opponent's face to get a chance to earn the Favor (as opposed to Old5R's highest Honor just bowing someone to get it).

Given FFG's usual very...precise...wording in rules-based previews, it doesn't look like there's any action window there. The Favor is awarded based on some criteria. Certainly they might have cards that would modify the criteria (one would expect the Crane to excel at cards doing that), but we don't have enough to otherwise draw any conclusions.

Edited by Gaffa

Or maybe imperial favor could be given to the clan by adding up the glory of each side's standing characters. Because of the fading mechanic, it would be giving a lot to hold back some personalities, but worth it if you are trying to play defensive as you try to eek out that last honor. Or maybe for a military deck in setting up the next turn for one final push to break that last province.

5 hours ago, Gaffa said:

Our only information on the Favor so far is:

"After all conflicts have resolved, one of the players will receive the Imperial Favor, a powerful force that we will explore in future gameplay previews."

This bit here has me thinking that winning the Imperial Favor would be something akin to winning Dominance in AGoT. Though since L5R has multiple win conditions the IF would probably provide multiple choices on how to be spent...

Or player who ends turn with IF will have initiative on next one.

Edited by kempy

Or you get +1 Fate

Or you get +1 Force in your conflicts

Or you draw one additional card in the draw phase

Or you can Bow or Send Home an attacking character during conflicts

Or you can get the effect of a ring without having to claim it.

Etc.

I think the "standing glory" measure makes sense. It'd be somewhat similar to Star Wars LCG's measure of unexhausted Force pips, but perhaps without the need to commit to the struggle. It would also give players reason not to go all-in on conflict, and would give Glory something to do when neither player is honoring or dishonoring personalities.

i figure the Favor itself gives you priority in the following rounds.

Maybe the favor can also determine who wins ties similar to Rising Sun

3 hours ago, GooeyChewie said:

i figure the Favor itself gives you priority in the following rounds.

This now appears doubtful, as The Way of the Unicorn lets you stay as first player an additional turn, and makes no reference to the Favor in its text.

On the subject of (only very mildly) justified speculation, I note that the Matsu Berserker has Political skill of "-" while the Doji Whisperer has Military Skill of "0." To me this implies that the Berserker is forever locked out of courtly behaviour and cannot have its Political skill increased, but the Whisperer can get Military bonuses from attachments or events in order to become competent at fighting. Does this seem plausible to anyone else?

Yep.

11 hours ago, khaighle said:

On the subject of (only very mildly) justified speculation, I note that the Matsu Berserker has Political skill of "-" while the Doji Whisperer has Military Skill of "0." To me this implies that the Berserker is forever locked out of courtly behaviour and cannot have its Political skill increased, but the Whisperer can get Military bonuses from attachments or events in order to become competent at fighting. Does this seem plausible to anyone else?

That tends to be the difference between '-' and '0' in most games I've played.

Can you verbally bluff about the honor dial? Can I say to my opponent "I'm going to pick 3," or, "Let's both pick 4?" If we make some sort of statement is it binding? Can you spin the honor dial without looking at it to leave it in a random spot? Whenever you have secrecy in a game you need some rules about what information can be revealed.

1 minute ago, Ryric said:

Can you verbally bluff about the honor dial? Can I say to my opponent "I'm going to pick 3," or, "Let's both pick 4?" If we make some sort of statement is it binding? Can you spin the honor dial without looking at it to leave it in a random spot? Whenever you have secrecy in a game you need some rules about what information can be revealed.

I'm guessing they'll say "You cannot reveal your number". Also while I like the "Spin the dial" idea, I don't think we will be able to use it, too much friction between 2 pieces of cardboard. I'm going to keep a d6 handy.

Just now, Mirith said:

I'm guessing they'll say "You cannot reveal your number". Also while I like the "Spin the dial" idea, I don't think we will be able to use it, too much friction between 2 pieces of cardboard. I'm going to keep a d6 handy.

"You cannot reveal your number" still allows you to say "I didn't pick 2." Especially if you did, in fact, pick 2.

Just now, Ryric said:

"You cannot reveal your number" still allows you to say "I didn't pick 2." Especially if you did, in fact, pick 2.

It maybe you can say whatever you want, as long as it isn't rude. Its up to your opponent to trust you.

12 minutes ago, Ryric said:

Can you verbally bluff about the honor dial? Can I say to my opponent "I'm going to pick 3," or, "Let's both pick 4?" If we make some sort of statement is it binding? Can you spin the honor dial without looking at it to leave it in a random spot? Whenever you have secrecy in a game you need some rules about what information can be revealed.

?

I do not get that. You could recite the Tao of Shinsei if you wished. What matters is what you actually select in the Gift Box (dial) and is shown when the boxes are revealed.

"I am going to bid 3.1416..." Suuuuure.

Trying to verbally "assault" your opponent to force him to make a mistake would be quite impolite of you.

1 hour ago, Wintersong said:

Trying to verbally "assault" your opponent to force him to make a mistake would be quite impolite of you.

Such a breach of Courtesy could trigger an honor loss in itself, and/or a warning from a judge.

I wonder if "Breach of etiquette" will be in it?

Afbeeldingsresultaat voor breach of etiquette l5r

I assume it will be as most secret info is handled in games.

You can say anything you want because none of it is binding.

Edited by BayushiCroy

Yeah, I don't see why you couldn't say "I'm going to bid 2," and then bid 5. What's on the dial matters, and anything else is just table talk, right?

28 minutes ago, Robin Graves said:

I wonder if "Breach of etiquette" will be in it?

Afbeeldingsresultaat voor breach of etiquette l5r

I hope we get some iconic card titles back, including Breach of Etiquette. It doesn't need to have anything more than a spiritual connection to the former version.

3 hours ago, Kiseki said:

I hope we get some iconic card titles back, including Breach of Etiquette. It doesn't need to have anything more than a spiritual connection to the former version.

If Netrunner and GoT are any indication, FFG does tend to reuse old cards sometimes as straight copies or sometimes with mild tweaks.

I bet the imperial favor will be a token which does nothing by itself but modifies other cards and actions (as a wild guess)