I was hoping to have a discussion about a few aspects of what the L5R community would like to see when FFG takes over the tournament scene. This the Kotei and Jeweled events were a big part of Old5R. From the little I know about the tournament play for FFG's other games it would appear this would go away. I wouldn't expect any special treatment, but I wonder if FFG would explore the option of allowing player run events conducted outside the standard FFG tournament schedule that could still have an impact on the story.

Granted that is a big ask, but, I just worry that a leaner tournament schedule than what was available in the past could be somewhat of a disconnect for those players that really enjoyed the Kotei and Jeweled events seasons and how those results impacted the ongoing story.

For a slightly smaller ask.......can we please have a good tie-break system in place for tournament play? I remember at certain points in Old5R's history there was a point scoring system that assigned points to things that were in line with the various win conditions. 1 point for each point of honor of -1 point if you were below 0 honor. 10 points for each province you destroyed in combat. 8 points per ring you mastered. I could be off on the exact point system but I believe it changed a couple times and there was never anything official.

The point is that I would hope FFG explore including some sort of point system for determing ties in tournament play, it simply grant players fewer tournament points for a tie......instead of forcing a dice roll.

There are probably a bunch of other things people would like to see in tournament play, so please feel free to share.

When I was in high school, I won 2 different local tournaments that gave away replica daishos as prizes, and I believe that was not uncommon. I would love to see FFG providing an option (even if a super-expensive tournament pack) to support a similar thing, but that may be asking a bit much.

I believe FFG announced 8 Kotei's, Regionals, Nationals and Worlds. FFG allows independent events, AGOT has a history of large fan run events.

They also have said OP will affect the story.

1 minute ago, SlackerHacker said:

I believe FFG announced 8 Kotei's, Regionals, Nationals and Worlds. FFG allows independent events, AGOT has a history of large fan run events.

They also have said OP will affect the story.

This is why FFG sells a "Tournament Support Kits", that contain some previously mentioned things like acrylic tokens, alternate/full-bleed art, boxes and playmats. My TO for Netrunner used this all the time for both a monthly league and a normal tourney every so often. Then on top of that, there was store credit for the winner.

That being said, a lot of the unique prizes (3D strongholds, swords, etc) from Kotei were not from official AEG support, but come from the TO adding that in to pull in crowds, etc.

16 minutes ago, Ishi Tonu said:

I was hoping to have a discussion about a few aspects of what the L5R community would like to see when FFG takes over the tournament scene. This the Kotei and Jeweled events were a big part of Old5R. From the little I know about the tournament play for FFG's other games it would appear this would go away. I wouldn't expect any special treatment, but I wonder if FFG would explore the option of allowing player run events conducted outside the standard FFG tournament schedule that could still have an impact on the story.

Granted that is a big ask, but, I just worry that a leaner tournament schedule than what was available in the past could be somewhat of a disconnect for those players that really enjoyed the Kotei and Jeweled events seasons and how those results impacted the ongoing story.

For a slightly smaller ask.......can we please have a good tie-break system in place for tournament play? I remember at certain points in Old5R's history there was a point scoring system that assigned points to things that were in line with the various win conditions. 1 point for each point of honor of -1 point if you were below 0 honor. 10 points for each province you destroyed in combat. 8 points per ring you mastered. I could be off on the exact point system but I believe it changed a couple times and there was never anything official.

The point is that I would hope FFG explore including some sort of point system for determing ties in tournament play, it simply grant players fewer tournament points for a tie......instead of forcing a dice roll.

There are probably a bunch of other things people would like to see in tournament play, so please feel free to share.

1) Player-Run Tournaments and Story Impact: Highly unlikely, but is a possibility as the game matures.

2) Tie-breakers: If I had to guess, I would go with a) Broken Provinces b) Honor c) Fate remaining d) Standing Character Strength/Glory e) Die-roll

Broadly speaking, I would warn you not to get your hopes up as far as sanctioned OP goes. They've already said that L5R will follow the basic FFG series of Championships (Store, Regional, National, Continental, World) plus the eight extra Kotei world-wide. Prizes usually consist of tokens, mats, cardboard deck boxes, and alt-art cards.

1 minute ago, Mirith said:

This is why FFG sells a "Tournament Support Kits", that contain some previously mentioned things like acrylic tokens, alternate/full-bleed art, boxes and playmats. My TO for Netrunner used this all the time for both a monthly league and a normal tourney every so often. Then on top of that, there was store credit for the winner.

That being said, a lot of the unique prizes (3D strongholds, swords, etc) from Kotei were not from official AEG support, but come from the TO adding that in to pull in crowds, etc.

Yeah, I think for the bigger events like Kotei's there's a possibility something cool like that could be part of the support. Don't see weapons of any sort though, do to legal stuff.

The FFG kits a cool and but if people want to chip in and go above and beyond then there's nothing stopping them.

Just now, SlackerHacker said:

Yeah, I think for the bigger events like Kotei's there's a possibility something cool like that could be part of the support. Don't see weapons of any sort though, do to legal stuff.

The FFG kits a cool and but if people want to chip in and go above and beyond then there's nothing stopping them.

Usually got eaten up by the cost of entrance to the Kotei. I don't know the specific economics, and I'm sure it depends on the store, but I know my FLGS usually broke even during Netrunner stuff, and depended on other sales that day (Mainly beer, would be my guess, Yay game store with beer.). That being said, the LCG model doesn't really lend itself to selling its own product during a tournament, unlike a CCG.

37 minutes ago, Ishi Tonu said:

I was hoping to have a discussion about a few aspects of what the L5R community would like to see when FFG takes over the tournament scene. This the Kotei and Jeweled events were a big part of Old5R. From the little I know about the tournament play for FFG's other games it would appear this would go away. I wouldn't expect any special treatment, but I wonder if FFG would explore the option of allowing player run events conducted outside the standard FFG tournament schedule that could still have an impact on the story.

I believe this is part of the issue AEG had towards the end. There were so many story tournaments that every fiction had to contain story results and there was no real moving of the plot. I would be much happier with fewer but more impactful story tournaments.

I didn't pay much attention to Thrones OP, but I believe they had store championships with the winners all getting automatic bids or something to the next level which were the regional events similar to Kotei. The winners of the kotei got automatic bids to Nationals and the the winner of Nationals got automatic bids to worlds. Someone can correct me on that. With this setup, you can have the store championships be a Global Storyline Event where each winner gets a vote towards a story and the total of the votes drive the story. Kotei's can then be more specific similar to how kotei were before. Nationals and Worlds can then be BIG story events (i.e emerald/jade chamionships, days of thunder, etc).

26 minutes ago, Mirith said:

This is why FFG sells a "Tournament Support Kits", that contain some previously mentioned things like acrylic tokens, alternate/full-bleed art, boxes and playmats. My TO for Netrunner used this all the time for both a monthly league and a normal tourney every so often. Then on top of that, there was store credit for the winner.

That being said, a lot of the unique prizes (3D strongholds, swords, etc) from Kotei were not from official AEG support, but come from the TO adding that in to pull in crowds, etc.

The problem is, that FFG treat their OP Kits as another product to earn money instead of promotion. There's long list of jokes about content of OP Kits and their price.

6 minutes ago, kempy said:

The problem is, that FFG treat their OP Kits as another product to earn money instead of promotion. There's long list of jokes about content of OP Kits and their price.

This is sadly true

13 minutes ago, kempy said:

The problem is, that FFG treat their OP Kits as another product to earn money instead of promotion. There's long list of jokes about content of OP Kits and their price.

^ so much this. For ANR the custom prizing from TO where often waaaay better that the actual prizing (click counters, custom playmates, fancy dice or deckbox...).

I have more faith in the future nu5r community than in FFG regarding... Pretty much everything except the actual cards.

We have some months to make them change their ways about OP kits? Let them know that L5R deserves better? I would go to an store tournament no matter the potential rewards, just to be able to play the game. But I would not mind better kits.

Prize support isn't what it once was in Card Games. Anyone remember getting to open the "Can of whoop-ass" that you'd get if you won a Shadowfist tournament. That was among the coolest prize support of any game for just a weekly event.

19 minutes ago, Wintersong said:

We have some months to make them change their ways about OP kits? Let them know that L5R deserves better? I would go to an store tournament no matter the potential rewards, just to be able to play the game. But I would not mind better kits.

They have no basis to listen to the complaint since everyone gets the kits anyway.

My only hands-on experience of FFG Organized Play is through Thrones 2.0, but gaming OP is something that greatly interests me and I've had a considerable amount of experience with several different systems.

There are definite positives to FFG's system. Their OP pyramid (Store Championships into Regionals into Nationals into Worlds/Continentals) means there are clear seasons when events take place, and their Game Night Kit events mean that stores wanting run events can do so all year round. Old school L5R players will very much remember the post-GenCon lull that always seemed to last until the New Year, and even with AEG's attempts to address this, there were certainly stretches of inactivity in the old L5R calendar that made drumming up interest in competitive play a challenge. I haven't seen that to the same degree in Thrones...the quicker release schedule of an LCG combined with the aforementioned pyramid mean it always feels like we're moving forward towards the next event/season. I really hope this system transitions into L5R 2.0, as I think the potential here is enormous.

As has been mentioned on multiple occasions, FFG Koteis seem like they'll be much more akin to the Jewel Championship events in Old5R, while Regionals will take the place of what AEG called Koteis. It's perhaps not a perfect match, but I think it's close enough. I think that opportunities to influence the storyline will come in two ways: specific choices made by the winners of those new Koteis, and perhaps one or two more general 'global storyline events', similar to the recent Battle of the Trident (in essence, a GST is a tournament held at multiple locations worldwide where the results are tallied to give a final outcome). I know that some players will balk at this reduction on direct influence on the story, but honestly, personally I feel it is necessary. The AEG system(s) was/were unwieldy, under-resourced, poorly implemented, and at times shambolic. A clear structure and fewer results to implement will give each of these Koteis a sense of occasion and importance, and hopefully they'll be spread across the globe in such a manner that they're relatively accessible to as many players as possible.

Finally, a quick note on prize support, as it is very much something that deserves it's own topic. The better Old5R TOs have known for years that simply giving away product isn't enough to attract and retain attendees, and many of them have given away custom bling that is considerably more valued than another box of boosters or rare set. FFG's official prize support for their events can be poor, but TOs will very much step up to the plate and provide mementos that will be coveted and treasured.

I've never had any problems with FFG's OP kits, nor been aware of any gripes from others about them, but i think the LCG format (regular new product releases) and the structure of FFG's official OP means reduced reliance on prize support to attract players.

l don't know how much money my nearest gaming store has to pay for the seasonal Games Night Kits, but they usually charge players no more than £5 to play. Yeah I know, I'm unlikely to win £5 worth of product, but I'll have at least 3 hours of pure gaming bliss, socialise with fellow gamers, and it's a great chance to either experiment with new cards/decks or get some decent practice in for the official competitive OP season (depending what time if year it is). While I'm there I'll probably also spend money on some gaming accessories that I don't really need, so the store owner is happy too.

My main curiosity is around how they'll achieve a balance in their OP structure between catering for those players for whom Clan loyalty and Storyline is the most important thing, and those already familiar with FFGs 'traditional' OP structure for whom Nationals/Worlds is the pinnacle of their year (their Wimbledon, in sporting terms, or their Masters). Arguably two different mindsets, but both will need to be accommidated. Only way I can see this working is to keep the format for SC/Regionals/Worlds unchanged, but make the focus of the Koteis all about storyline & clan loyaly. So I get to bring my strongest deck to Regionals/Nationals without fear of bring labelled a "mercenary", and then I get to play in support of my favourite clan at my nearest Kotei and thereby do my bit to help influence the story. Would that work?