The small yet growing infection of militant, win-at-any-cost players. The rude mathematicians...

On 4/25/2017 at 4:23 PM, ThalanirIII said:

I've literally never experienced this in any of the tournaments I've been to (from store level to system open) - much less it's "mostly" true. I've heard stories but they're the exception by far. It's a shame if this is actually the case.

I've seen yelling at the last tournament I was at (not participating in). The same guy apparently threw his dice into the face of his opponent at the previous event.

My friend and I were commenting that there seemed to be few people at the last tournament that looked like they were actually having fun. Everything was really stressful.

2 minutes ago, heychadwick said:

I've seen yelling at the last tournament I was at (not participating in). The same guy apparently threw his dice into the face of his opponent at the previous event.

My friend and I were commenting that there seemed to be few people at the last tournament that looked like they were actually having fun. Everything was really stressful.

That sounds horrible.

I've only played one tournament so far, for the wave X release. Had a ton of fun. Playing Campaign Against Cancer this weekend too. Maybe I'm just lucky with the community up here, or maybe I'm lucky that I don't go to many events and just play with friends and family mostly.

The by now overcrowded design - with combos upon combos. It started as a simple thematic space dogfighting game. Now it is neither simple nor thematic as the ships we saw in the movies are rarely seen at tournaments (with some exceptions).

The lack of actual dogfighting when using all upgrades and trying to win.

Having played just a couple of tournaments I gave up on that as i was extremely booring and started to play friendly casual missions and HoTAC instead.

I play Armada for tournaments instead and now try to avoid getting drawn towards Runewars miniature...

List building isn't fun anymore. When I found a FLGS to play X-Wing at weekly I had a great time experimenting with lists and list building. Now I've been to too many tournaments and I can look at a list and decide pretty quickly if it is decent.

For me, when I try to build lists now I am not happy with anything. I like the Scum faction but I'm not a fan of large ships or two ship lists, that doesn't leave much in the way of competitive options and what little is left just isn't fun for me to put on the table. The lists I want to run have really bad match ups in the local meta, so I don't bother trying them out.

38 minutes ago, GilmoreDK said:

I play Armada for tournaments instead and now try to avoid getting drawn towards Runewars miniature...

Sort of venturing off topic, but how do you like Armada and how do you find it similar/different to xwing?

Liking the idea of it in theory, but not sure it isn't just because I have almost all the non epic xwing ships.

48 minutes ago, heychadwick said:

apparently threw his dice into the face of his opponent

Why does this not happen to me?

I need new dice, mine suck.

30 minutes ago, ScummyRebel said:

Sort of venturing off topic, but how do you like Armada and how do you find it similar/different to xwing?

Liking the idea of it in theory, but not sure it isn't just because I have almost all the non epic xwing ships.

I can keep it on-topic: Opposed to Armada and Runewars I find the X-wing 100/6 Standard tournament format extremely bland - It is ALWAYS the same. This lends itself to favor a specific type of list building and flying that seems to be very similar within each wave.

In Armada (and now also in Runewars) the system where the first player (having the initiative) chooses one of 3 objectives from the second player goes a long way to avoid this. I build my list to either be good at having the initiative or around 3 different objectives. If i have a list with few heavy ships (Imperial Star destroyers, MC80 etc) i select objectives that play to that strength by maximising my own firepower or slowing down the enemy. If i have a squadron heavy list i select objectives that gives me points for scoring hits with bombers or that allows me to ambush with my squadrons. If i have a list with many fast and light units (CR-90 corvettes for example) i play to their strengths by selecting missions that provides points for moving about (recon run).

This also help to avoid dead ships that are never used: Even the Nebulon that was hated during wave 1+2 now has a role (for the right fleet). I think only the Imperial Light Cruiser can be considered dead (but I would not bet on it).

Armada is about long term tactical thinking. Building a coherent list is one thing, but you need to match it with objectives that fits the list and know how to mitigate different types of opposing lists and how to compensate if you are the first player while choosing the objective from the second player that is least harmful to my list and playstyle.

Flying and maneuvering is a much bigger part of the game as well. An error made two rounds ago (No navigate command on your dial this round? You cannot slow down and cannot turn as well - You should have thought about that two turns ago when you set the dial). In Armada there is momentum and you need to see how it unfolds ahead of time - and then adapt when something else happens.

I would have loved if X-wing had some sort of inertia system where you could only accelerate or decelerate one speed step unless you had taken a "maneuver" action.

Also: Luck is there but there is less luck in the attack dice (they have a less swingy probability spread and there is more of them) and there is no defence dice. Only defence tokens that gives you an active role in how to defend as you really have to think carefully when to spend (or double spend and thus discard) your defence tokens.

2 hours ago, heychadwick said:

I've seen yelling at the last tournament I was at (not participating in). The same guy apparently threw his dice into the face of his opponent at the previous event.

My friend and I were commenting that there seemed to be few people at the last tournament that looked like they were actually having fun. Everything was really stressful.

That's a very specific experience, and I've never seen anything even close to that level. From casual tournaments to regionals and opens, people have enjoyed playing with plastic spaceships and had fun. Sure, the top tables were nailbiting, but everyone was still having fun.

1 hour ago, ScummyRebel said:

That sounds horrible.

I've only played one tournament so far, for the wave X release. Had a ton of fun. Playing Campaign Against Cancer this weekend too. Maybe I'm just lucky with the community up here, or maybe I'm lucky that I don't go to many events and just play with friends and family mostly.

I'm pretty sure it's not the norm - I've been to a few tournaments and none of them have been as he described.

1 minute ago, ThalanirIII said:

That's a very specific experience, and I've never seen anything even close to that level. From casual tournaments to regionals and opens, people have enjoyed playing with plastic spaceships and had fun. Sure, the top tables were nailbiting, but everyone was still having fun.

I'm pretty sure it's not the norm - I've been to a few tournaments and none of them have been as he described.

It's true that most are not like that, but it does happen and it's not super rare. It's not common, but it does happen. I'm not saying that most tournaments are like that, but I have seen people post about how they never see anything bad happen at tournaments.

37 minutes ago, heychadwick said:

It's true that most are not like that, but it does happen and it's not super rare. It's not common, but it does happen. I'm not saying that most tournaments are like that, but I have seen people post about how they never see anything bad happen at tournaments.

I'd say it is rare. Not 'super rare' or even legendary, but certainly not as often as you were making it sound.

1 minute ago, ThalanirIII said:

I'd say it is rare. Not 'super rare' or even legendary, but certainly not as often as you were making it sound.

I didn't mean to make it sound as often. I only reported about the last event I went to. I also reported about the prior event that a specific other person went to.

I'd like to have players in my area. Especially for an Epic game. Also I wish the balance wasn't so critical/tight and that the game hadn't become so complex.

On 4/26/2017 at 1:55 PM, ImperialPropaganda said:

My god I saw this too...

LGS1: "But...but... they make 10% off AND a fidelity card too!"

LGS2: "And they don't get/sell on ebay their store kits, and their tournaments are insanely expensive(that one's true) and during game night if magic players show up they have to leave them the table!"

ME: "PEW PEW?"

3

This is partly why I am glad the local community (both players and store) are very good here. That being said, I work at that store and I like to think we support our players a lot. Never have we had to ask people to leave because of any game. Although I've had to ask the magic players to shift to the other end of the hall. Seriously when there are 5 rows of tables, and you know X-Wing takes up two to three rows, why do you all decide to play on the middle row. It makes no sense!

What I find unfun?...

The meta, now don't give me wrong. I know that you can't stop a meta from forming or players from chasing the meta. Nor should you. However, last year during the reign of the triple jumps, we started to regularly stream our X-Wing tournaments and I was always commentating, something I enjoy very much. As time went on it became very disheartening: "Oh look...another triple jumpmaster vs. triple jumpmasters! I wonder who will win this one..." to the point that these days if I see any sign of a Jumpmaster in a list, it automatically goes into the 'no' pile for streaming. Less so if it is a very different and intriguing build. The meta at the time, and to an extent to this day still tries my patience. Though, I am aware there is nothing much I can do about that and I simply have to go with the flow. I am not going to let something like that deter me from a game I love very much.

Edit: Tabling also gets on my nerves, no matter which side of it I am on. I feel bad if I completely table someone, and I also feel awful if I am also tabled. In my opinion, I don't mind losing so long as I get some small victory out of it...being tabled rarely is that and is disheartening when I have to say "100-0 to him..."

On 4/26/2017 at 3:26 PM, Viktus106 said:

I do wonder how many more waves it will be before we enter Attack Wing style list building. I mean, we are almost there with the Ghost + shuttle + Ashoka lists as the only source of damage is the Ghost.

For example:
Bioship Beta - A: 6 E: 2 H: 5 S: 6
Action: Evade, target lock, Scan (reduce agility of target) + Regen
Captain - Khan (PS8) Ability - Always matches the pilot skill of the highest on the field if Khan isn't already the highest.
Lure EPT - Basically Intel Agent
Organic Conduits - Adrenaline Rush

Shuttle - A: 1 E: 2 H: 2 S: 2
Action: Evade + Scan
Improved Deflectors (Zeb's pilot ability).
Cloaked Mines (Deploy within range 2 of you Prox mine that explodes if someone gets within range 1 of it.)
Stasis Field - Target ship within range 1 - 2 loses all shield tokens and cannot attack this round. You also lose all shields and cannot attack this round (Your shields come back the next round though.)

And here is the kicker!
U.S.S Hathaway - A: 3. E: 1. H: 4. S: 3
Ability: Push the limit
Actions: Evade. Focus. Target Lock. Scan
Captain Kor - PS8. Add additional modification slot. When you attack, re-roll dice equal to your amount of upgrade cards.
EPT: CHoose a enemy ship, make them change their dial to a one striaght.
Crew: Wolf - Veteran Instincts
Crew: Sakonna - Add another torp slot. All torps cost - 2
Torp: Upgrade Phasers - Plus 1 attack dice
Torp: Type 8 Phases - Plus 1 attack dice
Torp: Tactical Station - Add another torp slot. Disable to add 1 attack dice. Discard to add 2 attack dice.
Admiral: Boost.
Cloaked Mines (See shuttle)

Those three ships, one which does NOTHING but objectives and reduce your agility (Shuttle) is bang on 120 points. The Hathaway, which is a 22 point ship has 35 point of upgrades. HOWEVER:

This list:

Is always the highest pilot skill.
Can see your dial
Can boost prior to moving as a free action
Can change your dial.
Re-rollable attack dice
Mines
Reduces your agility (which is mostly one or two anyway)
Has two ships capable of consistently putting out 6 attack dice, even 8 for one round.

In X wing, we have most of that already.

8

As someone who also plays Star Trek Attack Wing...the Ahsoka + Shuttle + Ghost is a very different beast and to be quite frank, Attack Wing does nothing to dissuade you from jousting with no obstacles in most games and if there is it's usually a planet which most people avoid anyway...

We do have a lot of stuff that can somewhat do most of the stuff you describe, but not all together and nothing so ubiquitous. There's nothing that can change an opponent's dial (other than Boshek and he adds another layer of tactical depth into the game rather than "I'm going to change your move to what I want now."

Pilot skill generally stays in its area and you have to pay to increase it by a set amount, there's nothing to my knowledge that always matches X pilot skill, and that's a good thing, even if that was a pilot ability for one ship, the fact you can't put it on anything like you can with Khan does hamper its effectiveness.

Boost prior to moving is nothing new, ships have to pay to do this and generally are skilled in the mid range PS to avoid being unable to be pinned down. This is why I think a new Phantom pilot who's ability is to decloak via the old rules (upon dial reveal) would be okay so long as his PS was 5ish.

Re-rolling attack dice is not new, Predator has been a thing for awhile now.

Mines are an issue only thanks to Sabine...and besides, nothing in X-Wing comes even CLOSE to cloaked mines. Cloaked mines explode if you go anywhere in range 1 of them with 3 attack dice? Sounds bad right? It gets worse...those mines REMAIN. They are NEVER REMOVED unless you have the counter card which is unique and the mines are not unique (slow clap).

I think a primary weapon value of 4 is the highest we will ever see in X-Wing, pushing it higher is starting to get to ridiculous levels.

21 hours ago, heychadwick said:

My friend and I were commenting that there seemed to be few people at the last tournament that looked like they were actually having fun. Everything was really stressful.

I found Regionals in January very stressful. TBH; it wasn't down to my opponents (well, maybe 1 slow player) but more down to thinking whiskey was a good night cap, getting stuck at a level crossing on the way to the venue, arriving with 2 minutes until round 1 & all 3 games before lunch going to time. This stopped me getting coffee, inhaling nicotine or even emptying my bladder for over 2.5 hours.

10 hours ago, Ebak said:

As someone who also plays Star Trek Attack Wing...the Ahsoka + Shuttle + Ghost is a very different beast and to be quite frank, Attack Wing does nothing to dissuade you from jousting with no obstacles in most games and if there is it's usually a planet which most people avoid anyway...

We do have a lot of stuff that can somewhat do most of the stuff you describe, but not all together and nothing so ubiquitous. There's nothing that can change an opponent's dial (other than Boshek and he adds another layer of tactical depth into the game rather than "I'm going to change your move to what I want now."

Pilot skill generally stays in its area and you have to pay to increase it by a set amount, there's nothing to my knowledge that always matches X pilot skill, and that's a good thing, even if that was a pilot ability for one ship, the fact you can't put it on anything like you can with Khan does hamper its effectiveness.

Boost prior to moving is nothing new, ships have to pay to do this and generally are skilled in the mid range PS to avoid being unable to be pinned down. This is why I think a new Phantom pilot who's ability is to decloak via the old rules (upon dial reveal) would be okay so long as his PS was 5ish.

Re-rolling attack dice is not new, Predator has been a thing for awhile now.

Mines are an issue only thanks to Sabine...and besides, nothing in X-Wing comes even CLOSE to cloaked mines. Cloaked mines explode if you go anywhere in range 1 of them with 3 attack dice? Sounds bad right? It gets worse...those mines REMAIN. They are NEVER REMOVED unless you have the counter card which is unique and the mines are not unique (slow clap).

I think a primary weapon value of 4 is the highest we will ever see in X-Wing, pushing it higher is starting to get to ridiculous levels.

Well, 30 waves will do that to you I guess? Ha ha.

The Ahsoka + Hera combo is the closest I have seen to ST:AW cheese and I hope that is as close to it as it gets.

Unfun, never getting to make pew-pew sounds because my opponent never lets me get a ship in my sights to shoot at.

On ‎4‎/‎27‎/‎2017 at 10:16 AM, macmastermind said:

The small yet growing infection of militant, win-at-any-cost players. The rude mathematicians...

Casual players that consider the win-at-any-cost ones "human garbage".

Casual players that hate Majorjuggler just for stating the truth.

Casual players that ask for list advice, and then when you tell them how their squad could be improved or that it would lose super hard to [top tier netlist], they get angry with you and tell you how they don't want to netlist or play the meta. Why the **** are you asking for advice then?

4 hours ago, Turbo Toker said:

Casual players that consider the win-at-any-cost ones "human garbage".

Casual players that hate Majorjuggler just for stating the truth.

Casual players that ask for list advice, and then when you tell them how their squad could be improved or that it would lose super hard to [top tier netlist], they get angry with you and tell you how they don't want to netlist or play the meta. Why the **** are you asking for advice then?

Agreed about the first statement, play how you like. Although I think there can be a balance between playing for fun and playing to win so long as the addage of 'Don't be a d***' is followed.

I think Majorjuggler does a great service to the community, nothing wrong with him doing what he does and I've never seen him be rude.

As for asking for list advice, being told to play a meta list is not what people are looking for. They are looking for discussion on how their list can be improved, not how they can replace their entire list with a meta list.

Keeping all the millions of pieces organized and ready for games/tournaments. The set-up takes at least 15 minutes unless you keep your different lists organized and put away together.

People who get overly pissed off if you accidently bump or move your ship wrong. The rules state there is a slight margin of human error (not that anyone should take advantage that rule).

And I'll join on the Kylo Ren hate. Especially when he's cruising with Palp.

I hate how the game is called x-wing but the x-wing is nothing but a HP buffer upgrade at this point for other ships that apparently are "better" up and including somehow the Y-Wing Bomber

On 28 April 2017 at 5:01 PM, Turbo Toker said:

Casual players that consider the win-at-any-cost ones "human garbage".

Casual players that hate Majorjuggler just for stating the truth.

Casual players that ask for list advice, and then when you tell them how their squad could be improved or that it would lose super hard to [top tier netlist], they get angry with you and tell you how they don't want to netlist or play the meta. Why the **** are you asking for advice then?

Life is too short in my view to take extreme positions on a spaceship game (or even in a historical one).

Playstyle is a personal thing - I may not play someone who wants to 'win at all costs' because it does not match what I want out of a game. (This is becaus I don't play tournaments - I am into missions and very casual 100/6 while being moderately competitive.) An individual's game style is a matter for them unless it is actively making other people uncomfortable.

Majorjuggler provides information on ships 'jousting' capabilities and that is useful input. Not sure I've seen much 'hate' - possibly people saying it is not the only thing to take into account?

List advice depends on the context, I think. In an Internet discussion it is easy to lose or not make clear what the context of the question is.

regards

Edward

Blinded Pilot.

Ok silly question here what is this 100/6 I keep seeing???Is it some sort of tournament thing?