1 minute ago, thespaceinvader said:

I'd say 34 points personally. If it's more than a third of your list, it gives up half points if you get it to half health.

Regen ships are the trick there though.

Point fortresses into point piñatas.

5 minutes ago, Turbo Toker said:

Point fortresses into point piñatas.

What's your point? I'm really not sure.

As has been pointed out above, its less about whether half points is still relevant for big ships and more about whether half points would be relevant for all ships.

I think it would be as it changes the dynamic of the late game and will reduce the ability of one player to break off at a certain point and see the game out on points.

No doubt someone will chime in with a specific scenerios where that doesn't work and ask me to explain how it works in edge cases (regen etc), but I think that generally it will an improvement to how it is now if you made the rule half points for all ships at half health.

31 minutes ago, thespaceinvader said:

What's your point? I'm really not sure.

No half health scoring for large ships anymore, replaced with partial scoring for every ship. Some of the best point fortresses in the game right now are small base ships that have high agility and token stacks, or low agility and regen. They're also no longer necessarily expensive either, Asajj in Parattanni is only 40 points.

Then you take this one step further by keeping track of how much damage is done to ships that regenerate in order to prevent regen from dominating after the scoring change.

Let's say a ship has 5 health, can regenerate health, and is worth 25 points.

Each of its health is worth 5 points towards points destroyed.

At the end of the match, it's still alive but it has taken 6 damage over the course of the game.

Your opponent gets 30 points for doing 6 damage to a 5 health ship.

The max MoV one could get out of a game would be 200 in order to limit abuse of this.

So instead of regen ships being obnoxious point fortresses that get up on points and then just run until time is called, you can beat the points out of them like candy so that way they're forced to engage.

Point fortresses into point piñatas.

Quote

The idea of "Large" ships losing half points when down to half health gets kind of silly.

It might, until you face a Fat Han / Dash that snipes one of your ships and spends the rest of the game running away.

5 minutes ago, Keffisch said:

It might, until you face a Fat Han / Dash that snipes one of your ships and spends the rest of the game running away.

Same but with fat Miranda.

I'd support half points on all ships.

10 hours ago, Shenannigan said:

As much as I dislike chasing a regenning Miranda, she loses her offense to regen.

Chasing a regenning fat Han was just not at all fun.

She only loses one dice on the first TLT shot. It's not that much... I've been double shot by her even while she was on regen mode.

3 hours ago, Stay On The Leader said:

I'd support half points on all ships.

That would be fair for ships with 3-4 health...?

For regen, I'd say that if the ship reaches half-health at ANY point in the game, you score half points, regardless of their final state.

So no cigar for plinking 1 shield at a time from Miranda, but if you get a big turn and do lots of damage, you get credit for that even if she bugs out and fully regens.

10 minutes ago, Thormind said:

That would be fair for ships with 3-4 health...?

Why wouldn't it be fair? A damaged Soontir should pick up half points.

7 minutes ago, fiesta0618 said:

For regen, I'd say that if the ship reaches half-health at ANY point in the game, you score half points, regardless of their final state.

So no cigar for plinking 1 shield at a time from Miranda, but if you get a big turn and do lots of damage, you get credit for that even if she bugs out and fully regens.

Yup, that would be a solid way to deal with regen for my money - if at any point they have less than half their HP remaining, rounding down (i.e. 4 for Mira), they have given up half points, even if they later regen back to full.

It would make the regen one-on-one a LOT less frustrating, because regenning point fortresses like Corran and Mira suddenly have to take out a LOT more of the opposing list to ensure their win.

27 minutes ago, Thormind said:

That would be fair for ships with 3-4 health...?

Of course. A 3-4 health ship is generally cheaper so you'd get fewer points for half health. It's also less likely to be left at half health since it's easier to kill. Is there really a problem with giving someone 6 points for getting a TIE Fighter down to 1 hull?

Having all ships give up points at half health seems inherently fairer than having only a certain subset of ships do so, doesn't it?

IMHO, the original motivation for large ship 1/2 MOV was a backhanded attempt at balancing large base ships with engine upgrade. Problem now is that Miranda can do almost anything the old Fat Hans and Decimators could do but on a small base.

Is applying 1/2 points to all ships worth the hassle? Depends who you ask I suppose.

Just decide the end of every game by final salvo. That's actually quite neat - if you table your opponent you obv win but otherwise it would tend to go against turtling up expensive ships for MOV wins.

Im surprised nobody has thought of it before.

26 minutes ago, Stay On The Leader said:

Just decide the end of every game by final salvo. That's actually quite neat - if you table your opponent you obv win but otherwise it would tend to go against turtling up expensive ships for MOV wins.

Im surprised nobody has thought of it before.

Interesting idea. I'm not sure how workable and "fair" it is when determining a winner but I like the idea that the person with the tanky, points-fortress build is now forced to play aggressively to avoid what will often be an unfavourable final salvo. It'd be worth testing just to see how it changes the style of play. Anything that promotes a more aggressive and engaging style of play is worh looking into, I think.

30 minutes ago, Stay On The Leader said:

Just decide the end of every game by final salvo. That's actually quite neat - if you table your opponent you obv win but otherwise it would tend to go against turtling up expensive ships for MOV wins.

Im surprised nobody has thought of it before.

I like this. Puts a little jeopardy into slow play or running around the edge while up 6 points hoping for time. Want the sure thing? Then engage

12 hours ago, Nastrado said:

With heavier and heavier small ships coming into play with every wave. The idea of "Large" ships losing half points when down to half health gets kind of silly.

Take a look at these examples

Small

K-Wing: 9 health

ARC: 9 health Scurrg

Bomber: 10 health

Wookie Gunship: 9 health (also with reinforce)

Large

Jumpmaster: 9 Health

YT-2400: 10 Health

Firespray: 9 Health

Aggressor 8 Health

Lambda: 10 Health

When you actually look U it what is the real point of large ships losing half points? Heck you can't even say it's upgrade slots that make the difference since some of the small ships have as many or more than the large ships?

Discuss

With the exception of the Lamda, each large ship has two agility. Each small based ship listed has one agility. Upgrade slots unless they aid in survivability don't really matter.

In my personal opinion, it doesn't seem unfair if it were ruling were to be changed to half points for every ship that has 8 or more total health (shields + hull). Still covers all the large-base ships as well as the tanky and regenerating small-base ships.

I have to disagree with getting half points on all ships. It's incredibly easy to get 2-3 damage on all the 3-5 health ships (mostly because of bombs and turrets). It would make running them pointless because they'd be almost guaranteed half-points for your opponent.

6 hours ago, Turbo Toker said:

Soontir costs less points typically and each point of health of his is worth more. Each individual damage to him is harder to do, but worth more. That's the sliding scale for high agility, low health ships.

Punishers can't regenerate. If you have a naked Cutlass Squadron, your opponent can only get 21 points max out if it.

The difference between a naked Miranda and one that's 48 points is that each damage done to the 29 point one is worth about 3 points, and each damage done to the 48 point one is worth about 5 points. If the 48 point Miranda was killed twice over, it would be worth 96 points. If the 29 point Miranda took 18 damage, it would be worth 58.

Rebels are not at a distinct disadvantage for squad building. Biggs is a huuuuge meta staple. Miranda is the best ship in the game. They have great stresshog options, Dash and Rey and Kanan (and Miranda) are great fat turrets.

Biggs may be a huge staple but he's not the boogeyman he once was. I question Miranda being the best ship in the game. With a TLT she's tough and the slam makes her tough to pin down. The 1300 can be a beast but with one agility and regen that comes with a potential crit not an automatic winner.

If you don't think Rebels are hamstrung in squad building, put together a squad of PS 5 or 6 pilots from all three factions and look at the results. I think you'll be surprised. Specifically look at pilot ability and the presence, or lack, of an EPT slot.

42 minutes ago, Stay On The Leader said:

Just decide the end of every game by final salvo. That's actually quite neat - if you table your opponent you obv win but otherwise it would tend to go against turtling up expensive ships for MOV wins.

Im surprised nobody has thought of it before.

I hope that was just a joke and I have a terrible sense of humour not to see it.

Sure, I was dominant all game long, I've got my whole list left with 8 attack dice and you're left with an academy pilot. But you roll two hits and I happen to blank out. Congratulations! You won the game. Ugh. Final salvo is random enough but acceptable in the rare situation when the time runs out and both players have an equal number of points left on the table. In any other situation it's just ridiculous. Not to mention it would heavily favor some lists over others completely regardless of their actual performance on the table.

Overall I see lots of horrible ideas in this thread. Spreading the half point rule to small ships heavily favors regenerators. Scoring points for simply damaging ships on the other hand would completely wipe regenerators out of the meta (you might lose on points even when practically annihilating the enemy without losing a single ship!). It would also heavily favor ships that are fragile but otherwise hard to hit, possibly making it the only viable (or at least very dominant) archetype. Creating a set cutoff value when half points rule starts to have effect would result in that people would simply stop taking ships at or not much above that value. The only ones left on the tables would be ships below that value or ships much higher than that value and I honestly don't see how the game would become better because of that.

In fact, when I think about it, most of the posts here contain solutions looking for a problem. Nobody so far cared to explain why they think that the current rules negatively impact either the game's balance or fun factor. In other words, what's so problematic with the game right now that you want to risk seriously damaging it by taking such drastic measures? What problem are you trying to address?

1 minute ago, Lightrock said:

I hope that was just a joke and I have a terrible sense of humour not to see it.

Sure, I was dominant all game long, I've got my whole list left with 8 attack dice and you're left with an academy pilot. But you roll two hits and I happen to blank out. Congratulations! You won the game. Ugh. Final salvo is random enough but acceptable in the rare situation when the time runs out and both players have an equal number of points left on the table. In any other situation it's just ridiculous. Not to mention it would heavily favor some lists over others completely regardless of their actual performance on the table.

Probably should have killed that Academy Pilot. And let's not pretend that the current rules don't heavily favor some lists over others.

1 minute ago, Lightrock said:

What problem are you trying to address?

Fat point fortresses on small bases, particularly regenerating ones. Basically. Miranda, Norra, and Corran, specifically, can easily become functionally impossible to kill if they live past the mid-game (and they're often run alongside Biggs, giving them a good chance of living past the mid-game), and are typically worth well more than even the most expensive and durable non-regen ships (Norra's 42, Corran's 48, Mira's anywhere from the mid 40s up to above 50, etc) and well more than half of any large base in the game (the maximum cost for a single ship being 82ish, counting a ghost with a docked phantom as two ships, which you should), resulting in a boring, frustrating play experience for the person on the losing side trying to preserve MoV whilst having no meaningful chance of actually winning.

Making those same ships give up half points if they were at some point reduced to half health or below, would make them a lot more of an interesting prospect to play against for me.

7 minutes ago, Lightrock said:

I hope that was just a joke and I have a terrible sense of humour not to see it.

Sure, I was dominant all game long, I've got my whole list left with 8 attack dice and you're left with an academy pilot. But you roll two hits and I happen to blank out. Congratulations! You won the game. Ugh. Final salvo is random enough but acceptable in the rare situation when the time runs out and both players have an equal number of points left on the table. In any other situation it's just ridiculous. Not to mention it would heavily favor some lists over others completely regardless of their actual performance on the table.

Overall I see lots of horrible ideas in this thread. Spreading the half point rule to small ships heavily favors regenerators. Scoring points for simply damaging ships on the other hand would completely wipe regenerators out of the meta (you might lose on points even when practically annihilating the enemy without losing a single ship!). It would also heavily favor ships that are fragile but otherwise hard to hit, possibly making it the only viable (or at least very dominant) archetype. Creating a set cutoff value when half points rule starts to have effect would result in that people would simply stop taking ships at or not much above that value. The only ones left on the tables would be ships below that value or ships much higher than that value and I honestly don't see how the game would become better because of that.

In fact, when I think about it, most of the posts here contain solutions looking for a problem. Nobody so far cared to explain why they think that the current rules negatively impact either the game's balance or fun factor. In other words, what's so problematic with the game right now that you want to risk seriously damaging it by taking such drastic measures? What problem are you trying to address?

I saw it suggested on a previous thread a suggested twist on regen; You may regen up to your original shield amount. Flying Biggs with R2-D2, place 2 shield tokens on R2's card; Flying Miranda, place 4 shield tokens aside; Gonk on a Bossk, 6 tokens next to Gonk's card. Maybe this is the next step, maybe it's bad math, just a suggestion I saw someone else mention, that as a primary Imperial player, I didn't hate.

24 minutes ago, Lightrock said:

In fact, when I think about it, most of the posts here contain solutions looking for a problem. Nobody so far cared to explain why they think that the current rules negatively impact either the game's balance or fun factor. In other words, what's so problematic with the game right now that you want to risk seriously damaging it by taking such drastic measures? What problem are you trying to address?

Honestly I have little issue with the current rules. My suggestion was just based on what I've seen and heard from other games.

A typical regen Norra Wexley or Miranda build is easily similar in point cost to many large-base ship builds. They have just as much health and similar green dice for defense. But you can get Miranda down to 1 health at the end of the game and get no points for it, but you're opponent still gets half points for the seven or so damage they dealt to your Rey. It does seem a bit unfair.

And with making half points only for ships with 8 health or more, it keeps ships with weaker health values safe from pretty much giving your opponent free points.