EDIT: Added Fighter dropped an ability (cause otherwise some comments make no sense)

I know that's TIE Fighters are the model of efficiency and are still "really good" and can't be improved because they are bastion of all point cost math... whatever... then why aren't they ever in top lists or even competitive lists?

Because they're not good. They can't scratch away at an opponent before they're dead and in swarms their damage output falls off quickly.

So I'm always trying to come up with the easiest fix that requires minimal work to implement. Now I know that this would work for other TIEs too... but it's a title: so Aggressors, Punishers, and Bombers wouldn't get extra attack die with anything but primaries, while Defenders, Advanced, Prototypes, Interceptors, SFs, and Captured TIEs would have to sacrifice their existing titles to use this. Which should be a fair trade.

I think it'd help Fighters and FOs, can be nullified be being at range 2, and would help just a bit with lethality and survivability.

Anyone can become Talonbane Cobra for 1 pt? That's too much IMO. I'll gladly take this on a Phantom. Or Omega Leader. Or even Soontir so I can turn him into Fenn.

If you gave this to "Mauler Mithel" he would get 5 attack dice at Range 1.

(Or would it be 4 attack dice, double it, get 8 attack dice? )

27 minutes ago, defkhan1 said:

Or even Soontir so I can turn him into Fenn.

Because Talonbane is so awesome and always on the table?

and here's my point, look at Soontir... he'd be the same cost but still be behind 1 hull, 1 upgrade slot, couldn't take Royal Title, doesn't get Fearless, can't take Fenn Rau's title... even with this "undercosted" upgrade, Soontir still can't touch a native Fenn Rau at the same points... then toss on Mindlink and it gets silly.

I know others are going to think what you think... "Too cheap"... and then they'll be a Scum parallel that will still be better as is almost every time

@AwesomeJedi

lol... I assume you mean Mauler Mithel, yes he'd be 5 die

While I agree the the Tie fighter needs some help, I also feel like this will over do it. Especially if you allow it on any "Tie" craft. Put this on 5 Alpha Squadron Pilots at 95 points would have 25 shots per turn at range one. Or block with one and shoot 20 shots at the sucker you blocked. Or 4 Saber Squadron Pilots with this title and crackshot can fire 20 shots at Range one and deny up to four evades. Deadly. I'm sorry, but this title is OP.

This card is utterly broken and would destroy the game. TIEs don't need any help, they are still very good and TIE swarms remain a tough list to beat. An upgrade like this would make them invincible.

5 minutes ago, JJFDVORAK said:

While I agree the the Tie fighter needs some help, I also feel like this will over do it. Especially if you allow it on any "Tie" craft. Put this on 5 Alpha Squadron Pilots at 95 points would have 25 shots per turn at range one. Or block with one and shoot 20 shots at the sucker you blocked. Or 4 Saber Squadron Pilots with this title and crackshot can fire 20 shots at Range one and deny up to four evades. Deadly. I'm sorry, but this title is OP.

Although that being said, how often do you see a Tie Interceptor swarm? Maybe I'm really all for it.

I find Ties hard to beat as it is.

Not sure about that card. Turns everyone into Advanced Mauler Mithel.

What I'd like to see is this:

Dual sided. Title.

Imperial Prefix Codes.

When attacking a TIE Defender X7, you may discard this card to cause that ship to lower its shields.

(opposite side) Action. Flip this card face up.

29 minutes ago, Lobokai said:

Because Talonbane is so awesome and always on the table?

and here's my point, look at Soontir... he'd be the same cost but still be behind 1 hull, 1 upgrade slot, couldn't take Royal Title, doesn't get Fearless, can't take Fenn Rau's title... even with this "undercosted" upgrade, Soontir still can't touch a native Fenn Rau at the same points... then toss on Mindlink and it gets silly.

I know others are going to think what you think... "Too cheap"... and then they'll be a Scum parallel that will still be better as is almost every time

@AwesomeJedi

lol... I assume you mean Mauler Mithel, yes he'd be 5 die

Talonbane Cobra doesn't suck because of his ability. He sucks because of his chassis. Put him in virtually any other ship and he'd be amazing. All you have to do is look at Fenn Rau to see how that kind of ability can make a ship into a monster. Giving this ability to literally any TIE variant is going to open a whole can of worms. Whisper with 6 dice at range 1? I'll take it! And with regard to Soontir you're forgetting his access to an Evade action and better action economy. I'd gladly drop Stealth Device from Soontir for prockets every turn, 5 dice at range 3, and a 2 pt bid.

The problem with this type of fix is that while it helps the ships that need it, it also buffs the ships that don't need it. Mindlink is a great example of this. Mindlink takes awful Scum ships like the StarViper and Scyk and makes them playable. But it also takes good Scum ships like the Protectorate and Shadowcaster and makes them ridiculously powerful. I'm all for helping out the old TIE fighters but this fix doesn't feel right.

I think TIEs should work via "death by a thousand cuts" style of combat. This would be more like death by a couple sledgehammers.

...and who said TIEs are no good. They are great in their own role. No ship should be everything.

I am always amused to see the "fixes" people think are balanced.

I'm sure Inquisitor would happily give up his TIE/v title to take this. He loses his Evade, which is a bummer, but at Range 3 he's rolling 4 Attack Dice and 5 Defense Dice with Autothrusters. I suspect he's okay with that. TIE Phantoms would take this as a no-brainer as well, since they are primary based and have nothing else in the title slot. I suspect TIE Interceptors would give up Royal Guard title for this as well, especially since at only 1 point it's cheaper than all the other standard "second mods" that are usually taken.

My gut says this is very broken, especially in a 6-7 TIE Swarm or Crack Swarm, but probably also on TIE Phantoms and TIE Interceptors and the Inquisitor. But that's...just like... my opinion man.

34 minutes ago, Pewpewpew BOOM said:

I think TIEs should work via "death by a thousand cuts" style of combat. This would be more like death by a couple sledgehammers.

...and who said TIEs are no good. They are great in their own role. No ship should be everything.

Other than blocking (which is a function of PS) and point filling (which isn't really a thing anymore), what are they good at?

I sit across a list with 3 or more TIE Fighters at any competitive venue and I tell myself to be careful and be sure and get the 200-0 and not leave points on the table... and I play more Imperial than anything else.

What on earth are those TIE Fighters going to do? My biggest conundrum is if I see Howlrunner and Youngster which one to erase before it can do anything and which one to only "most likely" kill in the opening shot.

I get if you think it should be TIE Fighter only or you hate the card or if you think it's an awkward fix, I get that. But if you think 4 reds at range 1 is a sledgehammer then I'm not sure what game you're playing, because that's standard fare every where all the time often out of every arc. And if you think TIEs Fighters, FOs (besides OL), Interceptors, or the non unique anything not Defender or SF are viable as the dogfighters they're supposed to be.... then you're remembering a meta that's long gone or playing missions or flying super casual

1 hour ago, JJFDVORAK said:

While I agree the the Tie fighter needs some help, I also feel like this will over do it. Especially if you allow it on any "Tie" craft. Put this on 5 Alpha Squadron Pilots at 95 points would have 25 shots per turn at range one. Or block with one and shoot 20 shots at the sucker you blocked. Or 4 Saber Squadron Pilots with this title and crackshot can fire 20 shots at Range one and deny up to four evades. Deadly. I'm sorry, but this title is OP.

3 Concord Dawn Veterans and Fenn Rau has the same odds as 25 dice and can target lock... at 98 points... this is already in the game, but better health and Mindlink options to turn up the lethality even more... I'm gonna put the math in and brb.

So if 5 alphas with 5 dice and a focus shoot at an agility 2 ship with a focus they'll average 2.5 damage... 12.5 total

those 4 Sabers, spending crack shot do 10.7

However, already do able

4 concord vets will score 14 hits on the same target and have 1 more hit point

Now that's not exactly apples to apples, but if this is OP to you, it's already in game

43 minutes ago, Lobokai said:

I sit across a list with 3 or more TIE Fighters at any competitive venue and I tell myself to be careful and be sure and get the 200-0 and not leave points on the table... and I play more Imperial than anything else.

Speechless.

27 minutes ago, Vargas79 said:

Speechless.

That's what I am trying to make any non-First Order TIE list work that isn't Defenders... I don't mean local pick up games. I mean in an optimized competitive event. I'm sure there's someone somewhere that can use Fighters and Interceptors and make it to a top table... but they're flying way up hill to do it

1 hour ago, Lobokai said:

That's what I am trying to make any non-First Order TIE list work that isn't Defenders... I don't mean local pick up games. I mean in an optimized competitive event. I'm sure there's someone somewhere that can use Fighters and Interceptors and make it to a top table... but they're flying way up hill to do it

I've been meaning to try this out...

Gamma Squadron Veteran (19)
Snap Shot (2)
Operations Specialist (3)
Intelligence Agent (1)
Lightweight Frame (2)
TIE Shuttle (0)

Gamma Squadron Veteran (19)
Snap Shot (2)
Operations Specialist (3)
Intelligence Agent (1)
Lightweight Frame (2)
TIE Shuttle (0)

Saber Squadron Pilot (21)
Snap Shot (2)

Saber Squadron Pilot (21)
Snap Shot (2)

Total: 100

View in Yet Another Squad Builder

If ANYONE gets a snapshot (and misses), that's 2 extra focus tokens thrown around an agility 3 list. With the intel agents, you should be able to get snaps on anyone short of scouts.

Tie fighter are born to play in swarm ! Since FFG give swarm tactics and swarm leader, let make the swarm great again (or whatever)

Title : Tie/LN

Cost : 0 pt

When defending, if you have 2 friendly ship in range 1, you may reroll a defense dice.

However in epic game, tie fighter are very good, especially with snapshot !

6 hours ago, Lobokai said:

EDIT: Added Fighter dropped an ability (cause otherwise some comments make no sense)

I know that's TIE Fighters are the model of efficiency and are still "really good" and can't be improved because they are bastion of all point cost math... whatever... then why aren't they ever in top lists or even competitive lists?

Because they're not good. They can't scratch away at an opponent before they're dead and in swarms their damage output falls off quickly.

So I'm always trying to come up with the easiest fix that requires minimal work to implement. Now I know that this would work for other TIEs too... but it's a title: so Aggressors, Punishers, and Bombers wouldn't get extra attack die with anything but primaries, while Defenders, Advanced, Prototypes, Interceptors, SFs, and Captured TIEs would have to sacrifice their existing titles to use this. Which should be a fair trade.

I think it'd help Fighters and FOs, can be nullified be being at range 2, and would help just a bit with lethality and survivability.

How about instead of this, you make an offensive version of Lightweight Frame? That way it's not super duper obnoxious all of the time.

13 minutes ago, Turbo Toker said:

How about instead of this, you make an offensive version of Lightweight Frame? That way it's not super duper obnoxious all of the time.

Problem is, most of the annoying large base ships in the meta are already agility 1-2. lightweight frame-ing a 2 die attack doesnt actually add anything.

My own solution card is a 0 point Tie only modification that only works when there's no shields. So cheaptie fighters, bombers and low ps intercepters gain the best benifit, with Defenders, Phantoms, SF and Advanc ePrototypes getting nothing for half their existance.

1 minute ago, Rakaydos said:

Problem is, most of the annoying large base ships in the meta are already agility 1-2. lightweight frame-ing a 2 die attack doesnt actually add anything.

My own solution card is a 0 point Tie only modification that only works when there's no shields. So cheaptie fighters, bombers and low ps intercepters gain the best benifit, with Defenders, Phantoms, SF and Advanc ePrototypes getting nothing for half their existance.

Then two attack dice is enough to get the job done. And incase of something tanky with low agility that relies on tokens or abilities like Kanan pilot or Asajj with Latts Razzi crew, the ability to take 6 or 7 TIE Fighters with offensive Lightweight Frame should should provide should allow you to get the job done.

TIE fighters are good. You just need more than one of them

Lol, IKR? Because I often hear people say they wish they owned more TIEs

On the off chance you're being serious

http://meta-wing.com/ships/5?

data says otherwise

EPT for tie fighters only: add one hit result when this ship hits with a primary weapon.

How much would his be worth?

how about a title that adds a focus when using an evade action?

6 minutes ago, GrimmyV said:

How much would his be worth?

I guess that comes down to how much help you think the TIE needs (since this is Fighter only). I'd say 1 or 0. It's not a reusable Crackshot since you have to hit first. So good but not crazy strong.

Ie: you get 2 hits against 2 evade and spend Crackshot to get 1 damage, but with your EPT it wouldn't activate.

So it'd help with low agility ships, but not ships that a TIE struggles to hit (anything with higher than 2 agility and/or token generation abilities).