27 minutes ago, FrogTrigger said:

I think there are 3 pretty popular builds we will see with some customization, Jedi Luke/Rangers, Terro/E. Jets, Jabba/E. Weequays/Vinto, and then I hope to be completely blown away by some far out there lists.

I feel like the world champ last year played it really safe, I hope he attempts something a bit more 'out there' this time. High skilled players with quirky lists are the most entertaining imo.

I wish we could have like 2 or 3 tournaments so I could play all of the lists I really want to play.

Last year there were 2, and luckily I was able to try one in the warmup tournament. This year, there are maybe 3 or 4 lists I want to play, but I'll have to settle for one.

The thing about wacky lists is that it is only cool if you actually win with them. Losing with some jank makes you just look stupid.

What's great about the popular builds this time around is that there is actually quite a lot of variation in exactly what you bring, and it is not obvious what is "the best". Last year before Worlds, I was fairly convinced of what was the "best" in each archetype and there were really only 2 lists I was considering.

Yeah, I hope to see some double rancors and some quirky lists as well. But I agree. What I love about the meta right now is that just because you've got eJets and Terro, there are still a lot of ways to fill out that build. Or maybe you just have Terro and some dewbacks and fill out the rest of your list completely differently (splash in HKs and Bossk--who knows?). So it should be a nice surprise to see how everything shapes out.

-ryanjamal

Since I'm not going to Worlds this year, I've spent the last couple of weeks helping my friends prepare. Other than that, I've just been dreaming up fun lists for the next wave, but without knowing all of the command cards the options are somewhat limited.

I am excited to see what the faction ratios look like this year. Mercs are probably going to get a lot of representation relative to the other two, and I think Imperials might go from most played to least played.

Not entirely sure what's happening at the upper level but it at my local level stores have just stopped running tournaments. Whereas we had many store events in the area through 2016 there have been none in 2017 (So I don't even have the spring-kit Officer Promos yet). I live in the SF Bay Area so no shortage of players you would think... I don't really understand. My own attention has been waning since there are lots great videogames along with plenty of important real-life stuff to worry about. I can't make it to Worlds (weekday schedule is unfortunate) and, as I stated: local events are non-existant.

What I hope is that FFG is short-staffed right now after Paul left (and with all the other stuff going on for worlds prep and their other games). But what I fear is that the interest in the game has capped off for a multitude of reasons.

I'm hopeful for a turnaround at/after Worlds as I think we've got a great community here.

1 hour ago, ryanjamal said:

Yeah, I hope to see some double rancors and some quirky lists as well. But I agree. What I love about the meta right now is that just because you've got eJets and Terro, there are still a lot of ways to fill out that build. Or maybe you just have Terro and some dewbacks and fill out the rest of your list completely differently (splash in HKs and Bossk--who knows?). So it should be a nice surprise to see how everything shapes out.

-ryanjamal

Well, their will be at least one Double Rancor list, mine!

The store championship list that went up today looked really populated. I mean kansas had four at least. That's crazy and I live here!

Is there a list of store championships? This game has died for me. I've tried for a year to build up a base of players, but really it's just me and my kids, which I can play anytime

https://www.fantasyflightgames.com/en/op/events/2017-store-championships-may-august/

On 4/24/2017 at 8:50 PM, ryanjamal said:

Ha ha, I'm the same. I am prepping for Worlds and would rather wait until afterwards to post my thoughts :-)

-ryanjamal

On 4/25/2017 at 2:19 PM, brettpkelly said:

I'd love to talk about all that stuff, but I feel it would be unfair to the people I've been practicing with who might bring some less well known units to worlds and I don't want to give away their edge. Especially since some of the people I've played with have kicked my ass with atypical stuff. That said, if you want to see what list I think is best I'm on Vassal all the time.

On 4/25/2017 at 2:59 PM, ryanjamal said:

Yeah, I don't want to discuss these things really before Worlds, but I'm hoping that afterwards we'll see these boards light up again. Only 9 days away!

-ryanjamal

Nothing against you guys personally, but I super duper hate this mentality.

Um, okay. Why? What I'm looking forward to at Worlds is (hopefully) a variety of lists and strategies. I'd like to see things I haven't thought of. I'd like to surprise others. And I'd rather come up with on my own what will work best and see others prove me wrong, rather than everyone dumping their lists and strategies in advance so we see a lot of the same.

I don't think my ideas will be that different from everyone else's, and I look forward to sharing my insights after Worlds and to reading others'. I just want a little mystery.

-ryanjamal

There's no reason to give away your worlds list secrets right before worlds, you don't want your opponents to be able to prepare for what you bring.

I agree with Brett and Ryan. At GenCon last summer I won the SWM Championship and I did it with a squad and tactic that was WAY out of left field...and the only thing I had going for me was the fact that it was new/different and that my opponents therefore wouldn't know the best way to counter it. It worked, and I won. But I can 100% guarantee you that it'll never work again, because people now know what to expect and how to counter it. I really was a sub-par squad, using the absolute worst piece in the game.

And one of the coolest things about it was that I had more fun with this squad in that tournament than I'd had for several years in that game previously...it was the risk, the inventiveness, and the "This is so stupid that it's genius...it might actually work!" mentality that made it fun!

So yeah, I'm very happy to put up with a dry meta discussion for now, if it allows people to try something new or different, which requires the element of surprise (not just the command card!) in order for it to work.

Just out of curiosity - what was that list, and what was the special tacs? We can still talk, while not talking about current Worlds lists

If you have to ask why a game discussion forum is dead because all the "experts" are sitting on their super sekrit lists that will definitely win worlds, it's a bad sign.

It's arrogant, elitist, and exclusionary. I know locally IA is on life support because of it.

If you have to rely on gotchas to win your games for you, I don't think you have a realistic shot of winning. The players that are better than you will not be surprised and beat you anyway, and the newbies like me are going to lose no matter what your secret weapon is.

17 minutes ago, Chumbalaya said:

If you have to ask why a game discussion forum is dead because all the "experts" are sitting on their super sekrit lists that will definitely win worlds, it's a bad sign.

It's arrogant, elitist, and exclusionary. I know locally IA is on life support because of it.

If you have to rely on gotchas to win your games for you, I don't think you have a realistic shot of winning. The players that are better than you will not be surprised and beat you anyway, and the newbies like me are going to lose no matter what your secret weapon is.

Whining about people not revealing their lists is entitled and selfish. No one owes you any discussion. I don't think anyone on this forum is arrogant or exclusionary, in fact some of the best players in the world are also the most humble. Most of them are on vassal all the time and willing to play with anybody who asks, no matter how much of a noob. If making time for a game with noobs isn't inclusive, i don't know what is

Nobody owes me anything. I play IA as a fun side game. My first tournament is going to be Worlds because I really like this game, I can do it and still play X-Wing, and I want moar prize tickets. I'm more concerned with meeting new people, seeing new stuff, and having fun. I think I'll be lucky to win two games.

You grow a game and community by talking about it, engaging people, especially if the player base is as small as it is. Going radio silent just to gain some nebulous advantage in plastic star wars toy battles is not a good way to grow a community.

Talking about the game in a forum will not attract people not already on the forum to the game.

If you think it does, you're welcome to start a thread and you will certainly get responses. Guilting the people that have already done that in the past will not help in fostering a welcoming environment.

Your argument seems lacking.

Wave 9 has already been discussed, so until people get to actually play with it there is little more to say, and everything about wave 10 is speculation and thus not applicable.

I find competition and competitiveness to be positively dis-interesting. Since that is what dominates the discussions, I ignore them. Even in skirmish, I find the game is best driven by a combination of story (ie, interesting scenarios) and the showing off of painted minis to create a little living diorama, a piece of popup art. I'm really into IA right now but the skirmish forum holds no interest to me so I lurk, at most.

To each his own. I enjoy skirmish both ways. I host tournaments at my FLGS for mainly newbies, supplying them with a list and giving advice on how to play. I also really enjoy playing the game competitively, which is why I'm also really excited about Worlds, the premier competitive event of the year. There's no right or wrong way to approach the game. Either way, it's a blast IMO :-)

-ryanjamal

To the OP, is there something you'd specifically like to discuss? I always enjoy a good conversation.

If you want to look at some (at least IMHO) interesting discussion about skirmish and competition and the "meta," then here are two threads that I found interesting:

There are lots of good discussions to follow (and perhaps resurrect with a new post), and you might find them helpful if you're looking for some input or conversation about a specific aspect of the game.

Personally, I think that the Triple-Focus Jabba/Gideon/3P0 squad (with 2x eWeequays) is a very strong contender in the meta. That's because it makes such excellent use of the Devious Scheme upgrade...and that can virtually guarantee victory on the Anchorhead Cantina map, for a number of different reasons. So I wouldn't be surprised to see several copies (or variations) of Merc Triple-Focus in the Top 8 or Top 16 at Worlds.

I do think that a swarm of Ugnaught Tinkerers could cause trouble too, and that's partially because it's deceptively powerful, and partially because people don't know how to counter it. Table-time with a match-up is always superior to theory-crafting about a given match-up. This is one squad that has been discussed, but I haven't seen it used much. I wouldn't be surprised to see a Ugnaught squad at the top tables either. This is perhaps one squad that relies a bit more on secrecy or the element of surprise, like I suggested earlier.

Personally, I think that the Imperials have lost a step since the points-for-kills rule change. Imperial squads are no longer 2x eStormtroopers +22pts. Terro and eJets (probably with an upgrade) are very solid, though. And Zillo is still very strong. Can Blaise be used effectively in such a squad?

So anyway, I'm not going to Worlds, but if I was, then this is what I'd probably expect to see (ranked in terms of power, from my perspective):

1. Mercs: Triple-Focus...almost certainly with Devious Scheme. There are several solid variations of how this could work. Perhaps Jedi Luke in a Jabba squad.

2. Rebels: Jedi Luke and eRangers as the core. (Or else maybe 2x eRangers as the core? The difficulty there is that all 6 of those Rangers want Focus, but only 2 are available per round)

3. Imperials: Terro and eJets, probably with Zillo Technique. Perhaps with Blaise (to mess with command decks, and therefore neuter the dominance of the powerful Hunter command cards)? Perhaps with the Inquisitor and some Temp Alliance Merc hunters (to use Hunter cards)?

4. Something interesting.... Perhaps an Ugnaught Tinkerer swarm? Perhaps a new way to run the Bantha? Perhaps a squad that is good at giving out the Stunned condition? Jedi Luke hates being stunned. So does Greedo, and the Bantha, and.... Basically, don't write off any deployment group until you've tested it thoroughly.

Anyway, that's what I'd expect right now.

I could be wrong, and I'm aware of what I said in #4 above, but I wouldn't expect to see too many of these pieces at the top tables (though I'd LOVE to be surprised and/or proven wrong!!!)....

--Rancors. Really cool and really fun, but they're probably a bit too short on Health. They tend to get focused down by an opponent's squad.

--Obiwan. After using him for a while, I like him because his control-removal ability is useful, but he tends to die too quickly in my experience. It seems to me (and I could be wrong) that you'd have to be really savvy to get great mileage out of him on a consistent basis.

--Trooper-centric squads. The points-for-kills rule change hit them hard. And they give extra points to Jabba more often. (I'm okay with this, by the way! I'm glad that they're no longer dominating competition the way that they used to.)

--Twins (Leia and regular Luke). Leia's 8 health disappears really quickly nowadays. She's always the opponent's prime target, and because of the high damage Hunter cards, she just seems too risky to use now, even though she does contribute some good things to a squad.

Those are my thoughts. Counter arguments? Questions? Other opinions? Let's let 'em fly! (especially those of us who aren't preparing for Worlds)

I'm also not going to Worlds, but I agree with your assessment of what we'll probably at the top tables. Hunter swarms are very strong, as is Jedi Luke, Elite Alliance Rangers, Terro, and Elite Jet Troopers.

4 hours ago, thereisnotry said:

I do think that a swarm of Ugnaught Tinkerers could cause trouble too, and that's partially because it's deceptively powerful, and partially because people don't know how to counter it.

I think this is a super interesting kind of list with a lot of possibilities. If I were running one though, I'd be very worried about running into Rancors. The droid has virtually no chance of getting meaningful damage through 2 black dice, and unless I have a massive figure, the Rancor will be able to dive the back line of Ugnaughts. I think any competitive Ugnaught list will have to have an answer to such highly defensive figures. I personally want to try an Ugnaught swarm list with Jedi Luke as that answer. In such a list Devotion becomes very useful since it drastically increases the chance of getting Son of Skywalker early, and the junk droid is so mobile between all the Ugnaught activations that I can reliably play it even if Luke is on the other side of the map.

4 hours ago, thereisnotry said:

Personally, I think that the Imperials have lost a step since the points-for-kills rule change. Imperial squads are no longer 2x eStormtroopers +22pts. Terro and eJets (probably with an upgrade) are very solid, though. And Zillo is still very strong. Can Blaise be used effectively in such a squad?

I was theory crafting earlier today -- rJet Troopers are currently the cheapest trooper deployment card. Their attacks are lackluster, but they make decent objective runners with their mobility. If you run Blaise and 2x rJet Troopers with Cross Training, that let's you use all the powerful spy cards, and leaves plenty of points for beefier, stronger units like Terro and eJets w/ Targeting Computer. What do you think?

4 hours ago, thereisnotry said:

2. Rebels: Jedi Luke and eRangers as the core. (Or else maybe 2x eRangers as the core? The difficulty there is that all 6 of those Rangers want Focus, but only 2 are available per round)

I've been running a 2x eRangers list for a while and in general it has done quite well. I run with 2x eRangers, Gideon, C3PO, 3x rAlliance Smuggler, R2-D2, Rebel High Command, and I have all of the focus command cards to help with the Focus issue you mentioned (Primary Target, Inspiring Speech, Focus, Stimulants, etc.). Having 8 activations has been really useful for getting the last activation with fully focused Rangers; it helps a lot against Devious Scheme lists with < 8 activations in particular. I think the list needs Hera when she comes out though, who would replace 2 of the smugglers. The free MP at the beginning of the game helps R2 get to a terminal and scomp round 1, Leader and Smuggler traits are perfect for pulling off Inspiring Speech and Stimulants, and her support ability is so perfect for the Rangers.

In our meta its all about the E-Jets and Terro with a fair smattering of New luke but I wouldn't say that E-rangers have had a huge uptake.

9 hours ago, turkishvancat said:

I was theory crafting earlier today -- rJet Troopers are currently the cheapest trooper deployment card. Their attacks are lackluster, but they make decent objective runners with their mobility. If you run Blaise and 2x rJet Troopers with Cross Training, that let's you use all the powerful spy cards, and leaves plenty of points for beefier, stronger units like Terro and eJets w/ Targeting Computer. What do you think?

2 x R jets w crosstraining 10

Blaise 6

2 x e-Jets with Targeting computers 16

Terro 7

Zilo 1

40 points and not bad at all IMO. Definately more of a swarm the objectives rather than a straight kill squad but there's enough objectives out there that it could be interesting. Plenty of good card options with spies and troopers.

The catch of course is who has that many goddam jets!

12 hours ago, turkishvancat said:

I was theory crafting earlier today -- rJet Troopers are currently the cheapest trooper deployment card. Their attacks are lackluster, but they make decent objective runners with their mobility. If you run Blaise and 2x rJet Troopers with Cross Training, that let's you use all the powerful spy cards, and leaves plenty of points for beefier, stronger units like Terro and eJets w/ Targeting Computer. What do you think?

I've been running a 2x eRangers list for a while and in general it has done quite well. I run with 2x eRangers, Gideon, C3PO, 3x rAlliance Smuggler, R2-D2, Rebel High Command, and I have all of the focus command cards to help with the Focus issue you mentioned (Primary Target, Inspiring Speech, Focus, Stimulants, etc.). Having 8 activations has been really useful for getting the last activation with fully focused Rangers; it helps a lot against Devious Scheme lists with < 8 activations in particular. I think the list needs Hera when she comes out though, who would replace 2 of the smugglers. The free MP at the beginning of the game helps R2 get to a terminal and scomp round 1, Leader and Smuggler traits are perfect for pulling off Inspiring Speech and Stimulants, and her support ability is so perfect for the Rangers.

I think that rJets are an excellent choice: cheap, mobile, cost-efficient. And since you can use them as Spies, they can be more helpful than rOfficers.

Furthermore, with the current map rotation it's valuable to have a squad full of Mobile figures! I really do need to go and pick up that second copy of Jabba's Realm at some point....

I like the idea of spyjets. I do like the Officers for Planning, but I love the jet trooper models.

Pretty much all I've seen in my limited play group is Jedi Luke and Rangers/Echos, eJets/Terro/eHeavies, and a smattering of scum from focus farm HKs to Jabba's Hunters.

I can't wait to get slapped around by something janky like a pile of ugnaughts.