So I'm joining another group's campaign and decided to go as a Marauder. I'm getting 80 extra exp (90 for starting obligations) so I figure I can just wait for that sweet sweet dedication to increase to Brawn 4. Also I have 3 points put into melee, 2 from starting skills, and I get 4 dice on an attack thanks to frenzied attack so I was just wondering on people's thoughts on the 3 3 3 3 2 2 build. IOW all 120 exp goes towards raising 4 stats to 3, as a human of course as compared to the 4, 3 build (one stat to 4 and another to 3)

Put a 3 in WP for the Strain and initiative.

Unless you are starting at knight level or higher, I almost always advise against starting without at least one 4. In my experience a 3/3/3/3 stat spread will only ever be good at being mediocre at everything. I could maybe see playing that spread in a very RP/narrative heavy game or in a very small group. There are also some builds that are more talent driven, like force power heavy builds, were characteristics matter less. Marauder isn't one of them. Marauders dmg being linked to your brawn makes a 3 even more of a challenge to play.

Hopefully that isn't too discouraging, I mean in the end the best option is usually to play what sounds fun. I've just seen too many players roll up 3/3/3/3 stat spreads and then beg for a respec down the road when they find they never seem good at anything.

For the same 120xp you can get a 5 in Brawn and be considerably more effective in combat.

spending all you XP on as many 3's as possible gets you close to the "Jack of all trades" character. The problem is, if every character in a party does that, you're not going to have anyone who's naturally strong at anything.

Keep in mind that Brawn and Willpower increases, post-character-generation, do NOT increase your Wound/Strain Thresholds. That could be worth the price of admission, spending "extra XP" for that Brawn 4 (or Willpower 4) so as to have a more hardy character with higher thresholds.

Wait what? Where does it say that?

Just now, TheShard said:

Wait what? Where does it say that?

In the book?! (EotE CRB p. 94)

I just figured since the Marauder has plenty of DMG buffs already it could work and with 1 strain per attack I could still be rolling 4 dice.

It could work, sure. There's nothing wrong with it.

I'm in favor of more well-defined characters, myself. I'd prefer to start with a 4 and a 3 that corresponds somewhat to my skill loadout (or just to my vision for what the character is like), so that I can meaningfully contribute to the party and also meaningfully stand out from the rest. And my hope is that they'll be doing the same, building characters that are unique and can contribute to a party in some practical, meaningful way (skillwise, that is).

31 minutes ago, ninjahX said:

I just figured since the Marauder has plenty of DMG buffs already it could work and with 1 strain per attack I could still be rolling 4 dice.

Depending on you game and GM that may work out for you. In a combat heavy game or one with even mildly optimised characters you will still likely feel underpowered in combat. Even with the 4 dice, you will be doing less damage, soaking less, and actively hitting your strain every turn. Since my goto technique when dealing with Marauders is to target their ST, you plan would put in you a real bad spot if you were in my games.

The issue with generalist characters is that they are seldom needed in most game sessions. An average sized group of moderately focused characters are going to cover like 80% of the skills naturally. Then consider that most encounters can be accomplished via multiple skills and that there are really only a handful of skills that everyone wants. This is due in large part to how the assist system works. Even in games without a dedicated role, a generalist with a pool of YYG is almost always going to get overshadowed by a higher characteristic group member assisting someone else.

For example. You've got a YGG pool for piloting, will you ever get to fly? Even in a group without a dedicated pilot, the gunslinger (4 agl) being assisted by someone with 2 ranks of piloting is going to be a much better choice.

I guess it comes down to, is the juice worth the squeeze. Namely, is having two more threes worth everything you have to give up. In a combat light game the answer could be Maybe, but in most games I'd suggest the answer is likely No.

I agree. Go 4 & 3, use the extra 20 xp for a couple more skill ranks or talents to better define your character.

You also don't have to give a flying flotz what anyone else says about your character, including me

Play the character you want to play, and take all our advice with a grain of salt. We are speaking from experience, but that might not be your experience, and you are the best judge of what is going to be fun for you.

2 hours ago, ninjahX said:

I just figured since the Marauder has plenty of DMG buffs already it could work and with 1 strain per attack I could still be rolling 4 dice.

It will work. You will be fine out the gate. You can always raise your Melee skill which frankly is smarter given that Marauder has 2 ranks of Enduring your base Soak will be fine. Put the 3 in Willpower, there are no ranks of Grit in Marauder, so until your branch to a different tree that's all the Strain you'll have.

57 minutes ago, awayputurwpn said:

You also don't have to give a flying flotz what anyone else says about your character, including me

Play the character you want to play, and take all our advice with a grain of salt. We are speaking from experience, but that might not be your experience, and you are the best judge of what is going to be fun for you.

Too true. I once played in a game that averaged less than a dozen rolls total per session. I could have been playing a mouse droid with a comm taped to its back and been fine stat wise. My advice was more about playing optimally which doesn't always correlate with most fun.

14 minutes ago, SladeWeston said:

Too true. I once played in a game that averaged less than a dozen rolls total per session. I could have been playing a mouse droid with a comm taped to its back and been fine stat wise. My advice was more about playing optimally which doesn't always correlate with most fun.

Also true I totally turned a player off to playing RPGs back in the Saga Edition days, just by being a bit overbearing on my suggestions as to how to "optimize" his character. I ruined his fun, which made me realize that, hey, certain people have fun differently than me

The optimized vs generalist issue plays out very differently depending on whether the party usually stays together or splits up all the time, the way the main characters in the movies do.

To get an idea of how the devs feel about this issue all one has to do is look at the character folios for the various beginner games. The characters are (mostly) optimized for their roles/professions. The FFG written modules have to be adjusted (nerfed) if the players' characters are not optimized for their roles, especially if they're sub-par at combat.

I think other species are far more interesting than Humans in this system. Most others can have a stat spread of 4/3/3/2/2/1 (in species specific orders). For me it makes for a far more interesting character when there is a weakness, but that is just me.

Focusing on Human I would say 3/3/3/3 is great in a game where your expecting to receive a lot of xp, where your fairly confident that 2 Dedications can be reached. But if your group tends to play shorter story arcs and jump between characters/systems then a 4 to start should be a priority.

A characteristic of 4 can succeed more often than not even with no skill ranks, that means skills that are not even career skills are still in your core focus.

As an example a Zabrak Marauder could start with a 3/2/2/4/3/1 spread without any additional Obligation. Using the 3 Brawn, 3 skill ranks and Frenzied Attack method they roll 4 dice for Melee. But they are incredibly Cunning, they are going to be excellent Survivalists and beast riders. But Deception, Perception, Skullduggery and Streetwise are now all skills you can confidently use, broadening the capabilities of your Marauder significantly.

1 hour ago, ShadoWarrior said:

To get an idea of how the devs feel about this issue all one has to do is look at the character folios for the various beginner games. The characters are (mostly) optimized for their roles/professions. The FFG written modules have to be adjusted (nerfed) if the players' characters are not optimized for their roles, especially if they're sub-par at combat.

Well, of the twelve characters included with the EotE, AoR, and FaD beginner games, 5 have a 3 as their highest characteristic, and 7 have a 4. I wouldn't take this as strong evidence that the games are assuming a 4 in your main characteristic.

There are 6 folios each for EotE, AoR, and FaD, plus 6 more for Under a Black Sun. Total of 24 folios. Your sample is incomplete.

32 minutes ago, ShadoWarrior said:

There are 6 folios each for EotE, AoR, and FaD, plus 6 more for Under a Black Sun. Total of 24 folios. Your sample is incomplete.

I specified in my post which characters I included in the sample.

Also, it's not really a sample when you include everything. :-P

Even if all the others have 4s, it still indicates that the game assumes that characters with just 3s and 2s are valid builds.

There's a vast difference between "valid", which merely requires a character to be RAW-legal, and effective . I recently tested a build that had no better than GG in space combat in a space encounter. The GG pilot missed nearly 90% of his shots. His NPC wingmates with YGG missed half their shots. I don't consider either of those results acceptable. YMMV.

Valid as in being able to meaningfully engage with the game system in an enjoyable manner.

Hitting half the time when you have only some very basic training sounds pretty reasonable to me, actually.

Personally I feel the system is most dynmaic when you have a strong core focus (a 4) and two 3's.

My Rodian PC started out 2,3,4,3,1,2. His first dedication went into Int as before as his trade was that of a skilled machanic. (5 int is incredible) his second went int agility and his third into cunning. This made for a PC who was a solid gunslinger who was a matchless mechanic who ended up picking odds skills to survive to kill his fathers killer (slicing, discovered a force senstivity after a long period of interaction with a Sith saber.). I'll tell you now that provided you pick your skills well you will never be short of interactions you can give; even though his strength and presence is average and his willpower is terrible I've never had a situation where I wasn't able to contribute something to the ongoing narrative, and I'll tell you now 4 dice is a huge leap up from 3. My PC hits most shots, which meant though elements of the underworld really hated him (for stealing from a Hutt) his set of skills were valuable enough that often people who hated the outlaw yesterday would hire him today. Yet he has no issue with being number 2 in a conversation; although he is confident his bad reputation, a general loathing for the empire and rough rim upbringing means he lacks tact when dealing with anyone he perceives as a "bully". It makes conversing with him rather funny though! XD

Basically, while putting absolutely everything into brawn is a terrible idea beyond measure (5 brawn really isn't that different from 4) having a brawn of 4 makes your attacks stick often, you are twice as fit as most uninvested characters are. And believe me, more so then any ranged character you need strength to make your damage stick as strength determines both your ability to hit and your damage. Which I personally think is a little off.

9 minutes ago, Stan Fresh said:

Hitting half the time when you have only some very basic training sounds pretty reasonable to me, actually.

Reasonable and acceptable are not synonyms. Is it reasonable that YGG hits half the time? Sure. Is it tolerable and enjoyable for a player? Not so much.