12 hours ago, Seam said:

I would use his meditations as adventure hooks for the next or upcoming adventures. I would use a mental list of which benefits might come in handy in the next sessions.

The Jedi could sence the location where a contact gives the incentives for the next adventure. Other times the Jedi sences that one of his mates is in danger and you use some advantages to save him/her in the next adventure. And so on...

I like this idea too actually. I would allow the Jedi some extra bonuses like sensing things or slight predictions (nothing major) after meditating. I would use the same home rule for downtime activities that I listed above; make the Jedi take a Discipline check to meditate and use the results to govern whatever bonuses he might accrue.

1 hour ago, Tramp Graphics said:

With Luke in ESB, you have to remember that there was a three year gap between ANH and ESB, during which he had been seeking out knowledge of the Force and training between missions, and we can gather that Obi-Wan was probably in contact with him periodically to guide that training to a certain extent. Thus, it's not likely that Luke just suddenly figured out how to use Move out of nowhere in the Wampa Cave. He had most likely been practicing it for a while.

That's assuming a lot that isn't actually supported by the movies. For one, when he sees the ghost of Ben in the snow, after using Move to get the saber , he sounds surprised to see him. His disbelief is completely audible. So I doubt he had seen Ben before that at any point. Plus, we don't know he was out looking for training, what we do know, is that he was working with the Rebellion, and was doing so enough to develop some relationships with the other pilots. It's more likely, based on what we see, that he didn't actually spend much time at all on the Force, and was busy being a pilot and rebel fighter.

Actually, the new canon books and comics do establish that Luke was training in telekinesis and seeking out other sources of Force training for quite some time before ESB, particularly in Heir to the Jedi.

There's only so much that can be gained by meditation and training.

Wuxia is a form of Chinese fiction that focuses on something called the "Martial Hero," which is a term that fits the Jedi appropriately. These heroes are constantly meditating and training to better themselves, but a common theme in most of the Wuxia stories is that they hit roadblocks in their training that cannot be overcome until they receive the necessary insight. Most often the insight is gained from outside experience, and the meditation and training only shows benefit afterwards.

My point is actually in line with Seam

19 hours ago, Seam said:

I would use his meditations as adventure hooks for the next or upcoming adventures.

By all means let him meditate and train, but give him feedback on it. Create hooks for him to follow in your upcoming adventures and let the hooks mirror your feedback during his downtime so he knows that this is the insight he needs to progress. Maybe these hooks can lead to unique rewards down the road, but it's important that he work for it beyond stating "My character isolates himself to meditate and train."

18 hours ago, Tramp Graphics said:

Actually, the new canon books and comics do establish that Luke was training in telekinesis and seeking out other sources of Force training for quite some time before ESB, particularly in Heir to the Jedi.

Eh, I don't really care what people have retconned into the canon to justify their own stories. Like the "plot hole" that is the flaw in the Death Star, needing an entire movie around why it's there, when simple bureaucratic incompetence, and massive scale construction projects alone, is more than enough to justify the flaw. I personally only go by the movies, and in those, there is no evidence that he was seeking out other training before ESB. Others accept book canon, and that's fine, but I don't. It's too easy for anyone to shoehorn in anything they want into those gaps, that likely had nothing to do with the original intent of the story.

58 minutes ago, KungFuFerret said:

Eh, I don't really care what people have retconned into the canon to justify their own stories. Like the "plot hole" that is the flaw in the Death Star, needing an entire movie around why it's there, when simple bureaucratic incompetence, and massive scale construction projects alone, is more than enough to justify the flaw. I personally only go by the movies, and in those, there is no evidence that he was seeking out other training before ESB. Others accept book canon, and that's fine, but I don't. It's too easy for anyone to shoehorn in anything they want into those gaps, that likely had nothing to do with the original intent of the story.

I disagree whole-heartedly. The very fact that his skills in the Force as a whole were vastly improved between ANH and ESB shows that yes, he was undoubtedly training during the three year interval. Even in ESB he tells Yoda that he has already learned much , when Yoda was going to deny him training for being too old. To quote, "But I've learned so much." What do you think he had been doing those three years?

2 minutes ago, Tramp Graphics said:

I disagree whole-heartedly. The very fact that his skills in the Force as a whole were vastly improved between ANH and ESB shows that yes, he was undoubtedly training during the three year interval. Even in ESB he tells Yoda that he has already learned much , when Yoda was going to deny him training for being too old. To quote, "But I've learned so much." What do you think he had been doing those three years?

It's not undoubtedly, because I doubt it. Vastly improved? He did 1 trick before finding a new teacher to actually focus cram his education, and did it only after 2 failed attempts. That's hardly "vastly improved". As to learning so much, he was simply talking about being able to, you know, block blaster bolts while blindfolded, and perfectly time a torpedo shot on intuition alone. He had a taste of it, and wanted more.

What do I think he was doing those three years? I already told you as much. He was working with the Rebellion, and was too busy being a soldier in a war to go off adventuring for obscure, occult knowledge.

2 minutes ago, KungFuFerret said:

It's not undoubtedly, because I doubt it. Vastly improved? He did 1 trick before finding a new teacher to actually focus cram his education, and did it only after 2 failed attempts. That's hardly "vastly improved". As to learning so much, he was simply talking about being able to, you know, block blaster bolts while blindfolded, and perfectly time a torpedo shot on intuition alone. He had a taste of it, and wanted more.

What do I think he was doing those three years? I already told you as much. He was working with the Rebellion, and was too busy being a soldier in a war to go off adventuring for obscure, occult knowledge.

Nope. Even in the old canon, including Splinter of the Mind's Eye (which was originally a planned sequel movie, by the way) established him as training between missions during that three year gap. Luke did not learn much under Obi Wan. He didn't have time. Therefore, his statement of having "learned so much ," doesn't make sense if all he had learned was a little bit of deflecting blaster bolts. Therefore, he had to have been training during the three year interval between the events of the movies. No, what he was talking about was all of the things he had been able to teach himself from his travels and quests for more information on Jedi training over the three years between ANH and ESB. That's canon .

I'd actually ask Lucas what he meant by that, not some separate author that came along afterwards. But really, doesn't matter. You can quote canon all you like, at my table, you can learn force powers without having a mentor. And the FFG books also support this concept as well.

@KungFuFerret and @Tramp Graphics . You are arguing over canon in a game that's specific purpose is for you to write your own canon. You keep saying it is "in your own opinion", Ferret, but you seem to also be insisting that everyone should share that opinion. If Lucas' canon is so special to you then don't watch any of the new movies or bother playing Star Wars games. Lucas never counted any of these as canon either. You are hijacking a thread. If you want to continue discussing this start your own thread.

1 hour ago, McHydesinyourpants said:

@KungFuFerret and @Tramp Graphics . You are arguing over canon in a game that's specific purpose is for you to write your own canon. You keep saying it is "in your own opinion", Ferret, but you seem to also be insisting that everyone should share that opinion. If Lucas' canon is so special to you then don't watch any of the new movies or bother playing Star Wars games. Lucas never counted any of these as canon either. You are hijacking a thread. If you want to continue discussing this start your own thread.

First off, we're not arguing, we're having a discussion. 2nd, I never once said anyone had to share my opinion, but when someone else says to me something is definitely one interpretation, that I happen to disagree with, I am going to say so. As to me hijacking the thread, my point was actually on point, as someone else said they didn't let people train force powers without a trainer, and I pointed out that there was precedent for players doing exactly that. As to your comment about never watching star wars movies, or playing games, that's just childish and completely pointless.

1 hour ago, KungFuFerret said:

First off, we're not arguing, we're having a discussion. 2nd, I never once said anyone had to share my opinion, but when someone else says to me something is definitely one interpretation, that I happen to disagree with, I am going to say so. As to me hijacking the thread, my point was actually on point, as someone else said they didn't let people train force powers without a trainer, and I pointed out that there was precedent for players doing exactly that. As to your comment about never watching star wars movies, or playing games, that's just childish and completely pointless.

You've made plenty of derisive comments about "what people use to justify canon" and made statements about how all that matters to you is what Lucas says is canon. I think that is pretty narrow minded, hence the statement about forsaking every other aspect of Star Wars; it is kind of what you were saying by saying anything not Lucas is not worth it. Anyways, perhaps I'm wrong but you didn't really seem like you were discussing more repeatedly reiterating your opinion while Tramp offered a number of alternative sources. I'm not trying to antagonise you here or anything, but it is totally off topic at this stage. Like I said, perhaps I am mistaken and have completely misread the tone of what you are saying, but to me it seemed like you were really trying to push your opinion without taking anything else into account. If I am wrong, then I am genuinely sorry. I wasn't trying to have a go at you. I just didn't want to see another thread get flushed down the toilet of that old "canon at the table" debate.

My real point here is that whether there is canon sources, legends sources or anything else that might contradict what a GM wants to do, it really doesn't matter seen as it is the GM's game. Allowing canon to rule your story restricts you a lot. If a GM wants to implement something they don't need to be able to cite canon precedent for anything.

1 hour ago, McHydesinyourpants said:

You've made plenty of derisive comments about "what people use to justify canon" and made statements about how all that matters to you is what Lucas says is canon. I think that is pretty narrow minded, hence the statement about forsaking every other aspect of Star Wars; it is kind of what you were saying by saying anything not Lucas is not worth it. Anyways, perhaps I'm wrong but you didn't really seem like you were discussing more repeatedly reiterating your opinion while Tramp offered a number of alternative sources. I'm not trying to antagonise you here or anything, but it is totally off topic at this stage. Like I said, perhaps I am mistaken and have completely misread the tone of what you are saying, but to me it seemed like you were really trying to push your opinion without taking anything else into account. If I am wrong, then I am genuinely sorry. I wasn't trying to have a go at you. I just didn't want to see another thread get flushed down the toilet of that old "canon at the table" debate.

The other person stated many things as fact, I disagreed, and said why. If you don't like that, or my tone, fine, I personally don't really care to continue the conversation, which is why I had already ended it prior to your comment. You can think I was being snippy or whatever, again, I don't really care. I wasn't being, though as this point I am somewhat annoyed, and that IS coloring my current comments. You say you weren't trying to goad me, but you did. But whatever, I'm officially done with the thread, as I've stated my piece on the subject matter.

1 hour ago, McHydesinyourpants said:

My real point here is that whether there is canon sources, legends sources or anything else that might contradict what a GM wants to do, it really doesn't matter seen as it is the GM's game. Allowing canon to rule your story restricts you a lot. If a GM wants to implement something they don't need to be able to cite canon precedent for anything.

I've never said that I let canon "rule" my story. Far from it, I toss canon out the window with every campaign I run. What I was commenting on, again, was the other poster, who I don't even think is the person who was debating with me, saying that they don't let their PC's learn force abilities without a mentor or holocron, saying they can't just naturally learn force powers. I was pointing out, simply to inform, that there is precedent for it. In the rules of the very system, and, if you share my opinion on what the story of Star Wars is, in the movies. The other person disagreed, citing EU material as evidence for the canonicity of having a mentor, I disagreed with their disagreement. That's it.

5 minutes ago, KungFuFerret said:

The other person stated many things as fact, I disagreed, and said why. If you don't like that, or my tone, fine, I personally don't really care to continue the conversation, which is why I had already ended it prior to your comment. You can think I was being snippy or whatever, again, I don't really care. I wasn't being, though as this point I am somewhat annoyed, and that IS coloring my current comments. You say you weren't trying to goad me, but you did. But whatever, I'm officially done with the thread, as I've stated my piece on the subject matter.

I've never said that I let canon "rule" my story. Far from it, I toss canon out the window with every campaign I run. What I was commenting on, again, was the other poster, who I don't even think is the person who was debating with me, saying that they don't let their PC's learn force abilities without a mentor or holocron, saying they can't just naturally learn force powers. I was pointing out, simply to inform, that there is precedent for it. In the rules of the very system, and, if you share my opinion on what the story of Star Wars is, in the movies. The other person disagreed, citing EU material as evidence for the canonicity of having a mentor, I disagreed with their disagreement. That's it.

I was addressing you both when I said that it is restrictive to let canon dictate what can happen at your table. You were both arguing over canon, and whether or not there was precedence for certain things. Hence why I said it.

One thing I have considered doing is changing the conflict roll at the end of the session to a difficulty that the force-user must overcome through a Discipline check. All of the meditating that your character is doing could the time spent overcoming the conflict he gains during the previous session.

Perhaps conflict points could work on the same scale as Rarity in terms of the difficulty to overcome.

So, if you take this approach, make sure to have them do a check for their meditation, to represent them attempting to center themselves in the force.

Then, give them a blue die for any force power use attempts (that match their current alignment) and whenever they make a lightsaber check. It gives them the feeling of improvement, and everyone likes rolling more dice.

I have a houserule that swearing in star wars swears only the entire session earns everyone a 5xp bonus, so I agree with giving them a small bonus in place of my idea, it borders on too much to be added with the blue dice perhaps.