15 minutes ago, Matt Antilles said:

It doesn't need a second black hit.

You gotta be kidding

48 minutes ago, Matt Antilles said:

I love Scout Frigates. Run them with Mothma. The base build I use for them is this:

MC30c Scout Frigate (69 points)
- Intel Officer ( 7 points)
- Ordnance Experts ( 4 points)
- Advanced Projectors ( 6 points)
- Turbolaser Reroute Circuits ( 7 points)
- Assault Proton Torpedoes ( 5 points)
= 98 total ship cost

Shout out to @Lyraeus who first turned me on to them with his Dodonna the Oppressor build way back in Wave 2.

As you can see, this ship is SPENDY. It is not an efficient ship, it is an EFFECTIVE ship. That's what I go for when I use them, Combat Effectiveness in terms of damage output. This ship outputs a huge amount of damage all game. I basically look at it as a TRC90 and a Torpedo Frigate combined into 1 ship. The TRCs pound rounds down-range from Turns 2 through 6. You only get 1 or 2 black dice shots per game, so the long range fire allows the ship to contribute through the whole battle. The TRCs also up the black dice damage and increase reliability. With this setup I can expect to do 7 damage with an APT out the side (combined w Intel Officer) and 5 with APT out the front. It is enough to kill most small ships and severely maul a medium or large ship. The long range fire before and after the black dice hit allow me to send it after an ISD alone and expect to kill it.

I prefer them built like this as opposed to a Torp Frigate because I can put more damage into the target on my close range runs, and put more damage into the target on the turns in between those runs.

TL:DR: I run them because they are more effective, although they are more expensive. I've always felt I've gotten what I've paid for.

I call them "Murder Boats"

48 minutes ago, Matt Antilles said:

I love Scout Frigates. Run them with Mothma. The base build I use for them is this:

MC30c Scout Frigate (69 points)
- Intel Officer ( 7 points)
- Ordnance Experts ( 4 points)
- Advanced Projectors ( 6 points)
- Turbolaser Reroute Circuits ( 7 points)
- Assault Proton Torpedoes ( 5 points)
= 98 total ship cost

Shout out to @Lyraeus who first turned me on to them with his Dodonna the Oppressor build way back in Wave 2.

As you can see, this ship is SPENDY. It is not an efficient ship, it is an EFFECTIVE ship. That's what I go for when I use them, Combat Effectiveness in terms of damage output. This ship outputs a huge amount of damage all game. I basically look at it as a TRC90 and a Torpedo Frigate combined into 1 ship. The TRCs pound rounds down-range from Turns 2 through 6. You only get 1 or 2 black dice shots per game, so the long range fire allows the ship to contribute through the whole battle. The TRCs also up the black dice damage and increase reliability. With this setup I can expect to do 7 damage with an APT out the side (combined w Intel Officer) and 5 with APT out the front. It is enough to kill most small ships and severely maul a medium or large ship. The long range fire before and after the black dice hit allow me to send it after an ISD alone and expect to kill it.

I prefer them built like this as opposed to a Torp Frigate because I can put more damage into the target on my close range runs, and put more damage into the target on the turns in between those runs.

TL:DR: I run them because they are more effective, although they are more expensive. I've always felt I've gotten what I've paid for.

I call them "Murder Boats"

1 hour ago, Matt Antilles said:

I love Scout Frigates. Run them with Mothma. The base build I use for them is this:

MC30c Scout Frigate (69 points)
- Intel Officer ( 7 points)
- Ordnance Experts ( 4 points)
- Advanced Projectors ( 6 points)
- Turbolaser Reroute Circuits ( 7 points)
- Assault Proton Torpedoes ( 5 points)
= 98 total ship cost

Shout out to @Lyraeus who first turned me on to them with his Dodonna the Oppressor build way back in Wave 2.

As you can see, this ship is SPENDY. It is not an efficient ship, it is an EFFECTIVE ship. That's what I go for when I use them, Combat Effectiveness in terms of damage output. This ship outputs a huge amount of damage all game. I basically look at it as a TRC90 and a Torpedo Frigate combined into 1 ship. The TRCs pound rounds down-range from Turns 2 through 6. You only get 1 or 2 black dice shots per game, so the long range fire allows the ship to contribute through the whole battle. The TRCs also up the black dice damage and increase reliability. With this setup I can expect to do 7 damage with an APT out the side (combined w Intel Officer) and 5 with APT out the front. It is enough to kill most small ships and severely maul a medium or large ship. The long range fire before and after the black dice hit allow me to send it after an ISD alone and expect to kill it.

I prefer them built like this as opposed to a Torp Frigate because I can put more damage into the target on my close range runs, and put more damage into the target on the turns in between those runs.

TL:DR: I run them because they are more effective, although they are more expensive. I've always felt I've gotten what I've paid for.

*wipes a tear from my eye* They have gone and grown up on me...

1 minute ago, Lyraeus said:

*wipes a tear from my eye* They have gone and grown up on me...

I know. I remember when he was struggling to avoid sending his MC30s of the table, and now look at him.

So proud

1 hour ago, Matt Antilles said:

It doesn't need a second black hit.

It really does not. You push enough long range damage in that it is usually stripped of shields and the brace quite efficiently

25 minutes ago, Ginkapo said:

I know. I remember when he was struggling to avoid sending his MC30s of the table, and now look at him.

So proud

Those were the days...

2 hours ago, Matt Antilles said:

I love Scout Frigates. Run them with Mothma. The base build I use for them is this:

MC30c Scout Frigate (69 points)
- Intel Officer ( 7 points)
- Ordnance Experts ( 4 points)
- Advanced Projectors ( 6 points)
- Turbolaser Reroute Circuits ( 7 points)
- Assault Proton Torpedoes ( 5 points)
= 98 total ship cost

Shout out to @Lyraeus who first turned me on to them with his Dodonna the Oppressor build way back in Wave 2.

As you can see, this ship is SPENDY. It is not an efficient ship, it is an EFFECTIVE ship. That's what I go for when I use them, Combat Effectiveness in terms of damage output. This ship outputs a huge amount of damage all game. I basically look at it as a TRC90 and a Torpedo Frigate combined into 1 ship. The TRCs pound rounds down-range from Turns 2 through 6. You only get 1 or 2 black dice shots per game, so the long range fire allows the ship to contribute through the whole battle. The TRCs also up the black dice damage and increase reliability. With this setup I can expect to do 7 damage with an APT out the side (combined w Intel Officer) and 5 with APT out the front. It is enough to kill most small ships and severely maul a medium or large ship. The long range fire before and after the black dice hit allow me to send it after an ISD alone and expect to kill it.

I prefer them built like this as opposed to a Torp Frigate because I can put more damage into the target on my close range runs, and put more damage into the target on the turns in between those runs.

TL:DR: I run them because they are more effective, although they are more expensive. I've always felt I've gotten what I've paid for.

I have one bit to add to this. These are not efficient on their own. They are efficient in a list and pull well above their weight

51 minutes ago, Lyraeus said:

It really does not. You push enough long range damage in that it is usually stripped of shields and the brace quite efficiently

Well the ISD is pushing on you at long range too, and then all the way at medium, and since that shrimp is most probably the most valuable ship in your fleet if you want to get at least 4 activations the ISD is not going to be the only one pushing. It will get your opponets full attention. So, IF you get a black hit you will definetely need much luck to get a second. Anyway, is going to be a suicide task affordable for a torpedo frigate not too heavily equipped. Absolutely not for a 100 points ship.

Really guys you always talk into single ships builds completely out of the game frame and thinking of a perfect stupid opponet.

Just now, xerpo said:

Well the ISD is pushing on you at long range too, and then all the way at medium, and since that shrimp is most probably the most valuable ship in your fleet if you want to get at least 4 activations the ISD is not going to be the only one pushing. It will get your opponets full attention. So, IF you get a black hit you will definetely need much luck to get a second. Anyway, is going to be a suicide task affordable for a torpedo frigate not too heavily equipped. Absolutely not for a 100 points ship.

Really guys you always talk into single ships builds completely out of the game frame and thinking of a perfectly stupid opponet.

I ran 2 of these and 3 TRC30's with Dodonna. A very aggressive list

Xerpo. Give this a read. Run speed 4 and the ISD only gets one shot if that.

8 minutes ago, Ginkapo said:

Xerpo. Give this a read. Run speed 4 and the ISD only gets one shot if that.

Don't corrupt him with your dirty Torpedoe frigate ways

18 minutes ago, xerpo said:

Really guys you always talk into single ships builds completely out of the game frame and thinking of a perfect stupid opponet.

I have this lovely belt notched with wins over these... "perfectly stupid opponents"... They might feel a bit slighted though.

10 minutes ago, Ginkapo said:

Xerpo. Give this a read. Run speed 4 and the ISD only gets one shot if that.

This is an actual strategy that I've been using myself for a while. Problem with speed 4 is that you have a single shot, because next turn you will move away from close range.

The argument here is that, apparently, you can mess with an ISD shields at long range unharmed and then finish it with a single close range black shot.

If you move in fast you may survive the blow, you have one shot, that mc30 is flying through the table the rest of the game.
If you move in slow youre going to take shots in exchange, so IF you have one shot is going to be the last one.
If you sneak around with Ackbar tactics then youre spending more points in a weaker ship instead of a cheaper one that can do this better like the AFM.

Sorry but you cant have all of them.

1 minute ago, Lyraeus said:

I have this lovely belt notched with wins over these... "perfectly imaginary stupid opponents"... They might feel a bit slighted though.

Better like that?

1 minute ago, xerpo said:

Better like that?

I don't know... HERO is not imaginary, Mikael, etc.

Even so, these types of lists are high skill lists where timing and positioning is key. Letting that ISD catch me in blue range before activation on the front arc never happened. That sharp angle is just too easy to dodge when all you do is navigate

3 hours ago, xerpo said:

In the end you're paying more for the Scout+Ackbar setup than an AFM for the same purpose. Its too expensive and too weak. Just to make it "reliable" you have to spend 8 points in a must take title. This puts them 5 points ahead from a naked AFM. Then start building up from here.

I think we can agree to disagree here. It's a more maneuverable small-base ship and with the Admonition or Foresight title it's very hard to make significant amounts of damage stick on it. Even an well-piloted ISD gets 1 good shot at it before this thing circles to its rear flank. 4 red dice thrown at an MC30 is a hit it can easily take, especially with its evades and titles.

The killer aspect of the MC30 is that you don't want to try and logjam it as you would an AFMKIIb. Getting in front of the AF means you've got it in a great spot, whereas getting in front of an MC30 means double arc black dice next round. This causes opponents to react very differently to it which allow you to pick the time of choosing to close the gap. Black dice deterrent works.

double post

Excellent discussion! I have decided that the scout frigate will join my Tiger MKII for my CC campaign fleet build. We'll see if this list will work:

I used the Scout MC30 similar to Matt Antillies build (sans IO, which is a strong addition) back when the ship first released in wave 2. I really liked the long range damage the TRCs provided. It has a higher raw damage output then the Torpedo frigate.

Then I shifted to using some EL torpedo variants, to both help practice with second player, and the point savings allowed me to use multiple. Once wave 3/4 hit and flotillas came on the scene, I've kept using the torpedo variant since H9s make for incredible flotilla and ECMless ship killers. It is more of a brawling style, but works out rather well.

I can also see their use with ackbar, but I've never actually gone and used them that way, mainly because with ackbar I use the torpedo variant. Since I don't use TRCs and instead go for H9 or Xi7s, I prefer the consistency of the blues. The price cut is also always appreciated.

One last note about the Scout TRC build vs the Torpedo H9 or XI7 build. While the Scout has more raw damage, without intel officer you don't have the defense mitigation to push it through. The torpedo frigate build does this very very well, especially against smaller ships, so while it's less damage it can be more focused. Intel officer changes that equation quite a bit, and pushed the TRC scout ahead in damage, but it is a good deal more spendy than my traditional torpedo build.

Intel Officer is what made Dodonna the "Oppressor". It got oppressive with 3-5 of them stripping shios of their tokens faster than anything and suddenly boom!

The Murder Boat is very synergistic with Dodonna which is something not discussed. You don't always need to TRC to 2 hits if a Crit can get through and get that damage you suddenly see 4 cards and some dangerous situations can occur

Hmmmm thinking on it, depending on the Hammerheads... I could see DtO making a fun comeback... Hmmm