So if i used the move power and did an opposed check say discipline vs resilience or discipline to throw a creature against a wall using the control upgrade for damage. Would the thrown creature take damage equal to 10x its silhouette or would it take damage based on the silhouette of the object it hits doing the maximum possible damage if its say silhouette planet. Or rather should this be handled, im leaning towards the former for an aggressive force push against a wall.

If this helps: https://community.fantasyflightgames.com/topic/108101-ffg-developer-answered-questions/?do=findComment&comment=2088913

Physics tells us there is an equal and opposite reaction.

So the thrown creature would take damage equal to its own Silhouette.

9 hours ago, Ocule said:

So if i used the move power and did an opposed check say discipline vs resilience or discipline to throw a creature against a wall using the control upgrade for damage. Would the thrown creature take damage equal to 10x its silhouette or would it take damage based on the silhouette of the object it hits doing the maximum possible damage if its say silhouette planet. Or rather should this be handled, im leaning towards the former for an aggressive force push against a wall.

The target being hurled would take damage equal to it's Silhouette x 10 (or 5 damage if it's Silhouette 0), whether it's been thrown against a wall or "Force pushed" (effectively slammed into the ground).

Going by the films and Clone Wars show, the only thing a Force push effect really only takes down with any regularity are minions, which tend to be Silhouette 1 (so damage 10+successes from the Discipline check) and rarely have a combined Soak plus Wound Threshold greater than 10. You do occasionally see named characters get hurled about (Maul does it to Kenobi in TPM during their one-on-one fight), but rarely does such an attack take them out of the fight; depending on how the Force user's Discipline check pans out, the target may very well 'power' their way through it (i.e. the attacking Force user got zero uncancelled successes on their Discipline check); Anakin did this when Ventress attempted to Force push him in the initial 2D Genndy Tartoffsky Clone Wars series before hitting her with a Force push that sent her sailing.

RAW, not only would the individual being thrown take damage as determined by his silhouette, but the wall would also take the same amount of damage

5 minutes ago, awayputurwpn said:

RAW, not only would the individual being thrown take damage as determined by his silhouette, but the wall would also take the same amount of damage

Which most of the time isn't going to be that much of an issue, given walls in Star Wars are made of metal and fairly sturdy.

Of course, if the walls in question are made of far flimsier material, such as sheetrock, thin wood, flimsy glass, or even paper, then the damage might matter.

Or just say that if the PC rolls a Triumph, then the target hit the wall with enough force to put a hole in it.

Thanks for the feedback just some stuff i wish was a little more clear in the power description because who doesn't like force pushing people into walls, or off cliffs.

19 hours ago, Blackbird888 said:

If this helps: https://community.fantasyflightgames.com/topic/108101-ffg-developer-answered-questions/?do=findComment&comment=2088913

And yes that was very helpful

So far it looks like discipline vs resilience to throw, success allows you to throw someone. Damage dealt will be based on the person being thrown, or the object he collides into whichever has a smaller silhouette/mass. Of course requiring relevant upgrades to move

Something to keep in mind; Jedi using the Force as a direct weapon is not something we see much. It's mentioned as being antithetical to their Code. Knock enemies over or remove them from the area, sure. Deal damage, no.

Accelerating a person into a wall would cause a great amount of terror in the victim, which regardless of whether the person has shot at you or not is not something the Force smiles on. It's the easy path to destroy.

It is completely reasonable (if not imperative) that the GM hand out Conflict for such attacks.

Now if I hurl a Yt-2400 at a squad of Storm Troopers would I deal 40 points to the Troopers and 4 points to the YT-2400?

Would the people in the YT take damage?

Now lets say I am at extreme range of the Deathstar and manage by some miracle to Hurl it at a Victory class Star Destroyer?

Would everyone on board both the Deathstar and the Star Destroyer take 90 damage?

11 hours ago, emsquared said:

It's mentioned as being antithetical to their Code.

By the same guy who does it, though. This indicates to me that it wasn't against Jedi policy, but that Yoda arrived at that conclusion only after the fall of the Order.

Quote

Accelerating a person into a wall would cause a great amount of terror in the victim

Far less terror than getting body parts lopped off with a lightsaber, and yet there's rarely anyone contending that Obi-Wan would have taken Conflict for the bar fight.

Personally I don't feel either is worthy of conflict in a combat situation. If throwing someone at a wall to subdue them is the quickest way to diffuse a situation, then it's fine. That isn't to be confused with starting a situation by doing either of those two things. Just both of these methods are valid in certain situations, especially if they intend to kill over "not liking someone".

11 hours ago, Decorus said:

Now if I hurl a Yt-2400 at a squad of Storm Troopers would I deal 40 points to the Troopers and 4 points to the YT-2400?

Would the people in the YT take damage?

Now lets say I am at extreme range of the Deathstar and manage by some miracle to Hurl it at a Victory class Star Destroyer?

Would everyone on board both the Deathstar and the Star Destroyer take 90 damage?

You still gotta get past the vehicles armor but sure makes sense that the object being thrown takes damage as well.

14 hours ago, emsquared said:

Something to keep in mind; Jedi using the Force as a direct weapon is not something we see much. It's mentioned as being antithetical to their Code. Knock enemies over or remove them from the area, sure. Deal damage, no.

Accelerating a person into a wall would cause a great amount of terror in the victim, which regardless of whether the person has shot at you or not is not something the Force smiles on. It's the easy path to destroy.

It is completely reasonable (if not imperative) that the GM hand out Conflict for such attacks.

That would imply also using the force to throw objects at people. I'd probably lean towards intent and if the method was designed to kill, subdue or simply cause pain and terror. But i agree with those posting above, lightsabers would be far more terrifying than being thrown against a wall.

Using a Lightsaber is not using the Force as the weapon.

Any other time you use the Force as the weapon it causes Conflict. Move should be no different.

[edit] And I'm not saying you should get Murder Conflict, Im saying you should get a comparative amount to Harm or Unleash: 1 per use.

19 minutes ago, emsquared said:

Using a Lightsaber is not using the Force as the weapon.

What's your argument that this distinction matters?

19 minutes ago, emsquared said:

Any other time you use the Force as the weapon it causes Conflict. Move should be no different.

Had it been intended that way, it would have been stated in the rules. Besides, the idea that a telekinetic strike automatically incurs Conflict is not something supported by the movies. The only one implying that is Yoda, and he's also telling Luke a bunch of other stuff that turns out not to be true.

15 minutes ago, Stan Fresh said:

What's your argument that this distinction matters?

Had it been intended that way, it would have been stated in the rules. Besides, the idea that a telekinetic strike automatically incurs Conflict is not something supported by the movies. The only one implying that is Yoda, and he's also telling Luke a bunch of other stuff that turns out not to be true.

Clearly using a Lightsaber - or even killing in general - doesn't cause Conflict in and of itself. Sitting their during of a blaster wound would cause tremendous fear and suffering Root But we know those aren't issues. So saying, "Well a Lightsaber causes more fear." Is a moot point. It's not the topic at hand.

its how you're using the Force. What kind of tool you use it as.

And clearly I'm not saying this is in the rulebooks - clearly it's not. But we also no there's a lot of stuff (not) in the rulebooks that make Morality useless as-is.

So if you want to use the Morality mechanic in a way that reflects "What Jedi generally (don't) do is 'Lightside'", this is an imperative part of that.

The lightsaber stuff is on topic because it's an example of a terrifying weapon that doesn't automatically incur Conflict, and the fear caused by being smacked into a wall is part of what generates Conflict, according to you.

Quote

So if you want to use the Morality mechanic in a way that reflects "What Jedi generally (don't) do is 'Lightside'", this is an imperative part of that.

But we see Jedi use the Force to attack all the time. Following your logic, it shouldn't automatically cause Conflict.

Not at all, I never said Jedi never do anything that causes Conflict.

But we generally don't see them cause damage with the Force, slamming people into walls, or crushing them with giant objects, or throwing them off cliffs.

8 minutes ago, emsquared said:

Not at all, I never said Jedi never do anything that causes Conflict.

And neither did I?

I'm talking about telekinetic slams.

Which since there is no such thing in F&D, it is either a narrative flavoring of Move, or Harm, yes?

IMO harm is more force choke/crush

Force Slam is when you use Move to throw someone into an object this will cause damage and will not in of itself cause conflict anymore or less then shooting someone with a blaster or chopping them up with a lightsaber.

Force users do not gain conflict when defending themselves or others.

They gain conflict when they attack people without trying everything else first.

Meaning if someone pulls out a blaster pistol and starts shooting at them they can use the force to put him through a wall without generating conflict. How ever if its a Stormtrooper guarding a door and they shoot, stab, throw him through the door they will gain conflict.

When Yoda says the force is for defense not attack he means Self Defense not randomly attacking everyone you meet with weapons or the force. So if you walk up and punch someone in the face you get the same amount of conflict as you would for picking him up with the force and slamming him into the ceiling.

And honestly I'm getting tired of people going he hit him with a rock using the force omg so much conflict, but shooting him in the face with a blaster pistol generates nothing.

Lets review

Move = Throwing people or objects to do damage does not generate conflict in of itself.

Harm = Sucking the life out of people and oh boy does it generate conflict.

Bind= Force Choke/Crush/Hold and only generates conflict if you do really bad things like execute people who have upset you.

Unleash = Force Lightning and oh boy does it generate conflict just for using it.

22 hours ago, Decorus said:

Now if I hurl a Yt-2400 at a squad of Storm Troopers would I deal 40 points to the Troopers and 4 points to the YT-2400?

Would the people in the YT take damage?

Now lets say I am at extreme range of the Deathstar and manage by some miracle to Hurl it at a Victory class Star Destroyer?

Would everyone on board both the Deathstar and the Star Destroyer take 90 damage?

Depends. If you're planetside (or have gravity), then I'd say the freighter takes damage equal to its silhouette x 10, not from hitting the troopers but from impacting the ground. Just like if you lifted it straight up and dropped it. GM discretion on the actual height because who wants to be doing physics calculations?

In space, I would say the freighter just takes the 4 points (nets to zero due to its hull armor) because after the troopers slam into it, it just keeps whirling through the vacuum of space.

1 hour ago, Decorus said:

Force Slam is when you use Move to throw someone into an object this will cause damage and will not in of itself cause conflict anymore or less then shooting someone with a blaster or chopping them up with a lightsaber.

Force users do not gain conflict when defending themselves or others.

They gain conflict when they attack people without trying everything else first.

Meaning if someone pulls out a blaster pistol and starts shooting at them they can use the force to put him through a wall without generating conflict. How ever if its a Stormtrooper guarding a door and they shoot, stab, throw him through the door they will gain conflict.

When Yoda says the force is for defense not attack he means Self Defense not randomly attacking everyone you meet with weapons or the force. So if you walk up and punch someone in the face you get the same amount of conflict as you would for picking him up with the force and slamming him into the ceiling.

And honestly I'm getting tired of people going he hit him with a rock using the force omg so much conflict, but shooting him in the face with a blaster pistol generates nothing.

Lets review

Move = Throwing people or objects to do damage does not generate conflict in of itself.

Harm = Sucking the life out of people and oh boy does it generate conflict.

Bind= Force Choke/Crush/Hold and only generates conflict if you do really bad things like execute people who have upset you.

Unleash = Force Lightning and oh boy does it generate conflict just for using it.

Decorous, I believe Stan was referencing a "Telekinetic Slam" as the times when we see Yoda just blow a group of combat droids to pieces using the Force in Clone Wars. He clearly doesn't slam them into anything, he just blows them apart.

This clearly isn't possible under RAW of Move. You have to move them into something or vice versa. So, what exactly he is doing is open to interpretation, and that's what I was referencing.

Apologies, but you seem to have missed the hair that Stan is trying to split.

Or at least I think that's what he was talking about.

It is. There is this thing called a floor. Or each other. Or as I like to put it I hit them with the Air. Air if you did not know is a sil 0 object.

You can also use Unleash its not just for lightning.

Still haven't gotten an answer on if the people in the Death Star and the Star Destroyer take the full 90 points when one is hurled into the other inquiring minds want to know.

9 hours ago, Decorus said:

It is. There is this thing called a floor. Or each other. Or as I like to put it I hit them with the Air. Air if you did not know is a sil 0 object.

You can also use Unleash its not just for lightning.

Great, we're on the same page there.

Now there is also this thing called the canon media.

Genuine question cuz I haven't seen much of Clone Wars and none of Rebels: how often do we see Jedi smashing people into walls or crushing them with large objects, or throwing them off cliffs with the Force?