Local stores are getting more than what they thought, some are reopening pre orders. Starting to sound more like a distributor issue at this point. Or people ordered late/way to much.

10 hours ago, netherspirit1982 said:

FFG told us waves. This is the first wave of the new set that they said they printed way more of. Give it some time. If after wave 2 or 3 there's still an issue then it's probably a cause for concern. I just wish we knew how many waves there were going to be. As of now though, I'm not too worried.

Also, MM ordered 9000 boxes! I doubt they actually expected to get 9000 boxes, then they sent out the fear mongering email to their customers as way to explain that they over sold pre-orders once again...

Potomac is handling the situation much better.

the first wave should been big enough to cover the preorders at the very LEAST, what is the point of a preorder if it does not get you a copy on the day of release.

2 hours ago, krzykoopa said:

First you say "didn't you see the post in the other thread" now I am a stalker lol. Your stupidity stands out.

what.................. now your talking nonsense what does one have to do with another? you seem like you have some personal vendetta to respond and slur me on every single post I make. it's clear that your to far up FFG *** to see the truth and I about had it with your irrational defense of a company that has whether you like it or not hurt this game more then helped it. Maybe they made a mistake the first time but this is the second time they can't fill even the preorders, how many times do they have to do the same thing before you admit they made a mistake.

8 hours ago, Buhallin said:

Why is that? They're a retailer like any others, who operate at volume. The boxes aren't "suppose" to be going anywhere specific. They pay FFG and/or distributors for their product just like anyone else, and they sell it just like anyone else. I might as well argue that the other 5 shops in my area shouldn't get anything, because my preferred store deserves them all.

I much prefer buying from my local store whenever possible, but people need to get over these ham-handed attempts to strangle online sellers. Online sales are changing the way pretty much every product is sold, and the sooner people get over this idiotic protectionist attitude and figure out how to provide actual value within the brick-and-mortar stores the better off the entire industry will be.

And just for the record, I'm not a fan of MM either, but it has to do with cracking product to profit off singles rather than actually selling the product. This isn't unique or limited to online retailers, as I know a number of B&M shops that have done the same.

FFG owns their own product and they decide who will and won't sell it. They recently changed their policy to support local stores since those stores support their products. So you will no longer by buying your FFG products on release day straight from Amazon. MM online store isn't any different than Amazon though they do have a retail store that supports gaming, so they still get products on release day, just not 9000 boxes.

In short, FFG has got mad love for your FLGS. They haven't forgotten from whence they came.

MM, because it also has a retail store, likely receives two separate allotments of product. One for sale as sealed product online the other prohibited from that use. They probably utilize their retail allotment as what they open for singles.

So even them saying they only got 1000 boxes isn't accurate, as they are only referencing the boxes they can sell online as sealed product, not the boxes they can sell on site or open to stock their singles store.

16 hours ago, soviet prince said:

the first wave should been big enough to cover the preorders at the very LEAST, what is the point of a preorder if it does not get you a copy on the day of release.

I don't know if it was ever confirmed, but I had read that it was believed Someone higher up (Disney? Lucas film? Asmodee?) told FFG the release date was May 4 for promotional reasons when FFG had planned on a mid-to-late May launch. Because of this, for the first wave, they had to fly in product from China, so they flew in a very limited quantity. The rest of the product was sent by boat and the large wave FFG had planned now became Wave 2 instead of Wave 1 like they had originally planned. They tried their hardest to have a strong set launch, but promotional tie ins they didn't want were their undoing.

Same thing happened to MM. FFG said they had fixed supply, they were wrong. No surprises here for us pessimists, but I'm sure the white knight defenders are pissed. Oh well, maybe they'll run another printing after this one sells out. I really don't want scalpers to ruin this game, but with people trying to sell Sabine promos for $1,000 on Ebay, I guess it's inevitable.

Link to idiot on Ebay: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Star-Wars-Destiny-Sabine-Wren-Extended-Art-Celebration-Exclusive-/172637352451?hash=item2831fcf203:g:kQsAAOSwSypY-pD0 So

So I won a sabine but I am not allowed to sell it on ebay. So I am an idiot for selling it on ebay. I don't actually want to sell it, which is why I put it so high and let people make offers. I have now lowered it to close to what the offers were.

12 hours ago, Mep said:

FFG owns their own product and they decide who will and won't sell it. They recently changed their policy to support local stores since those stores support their products. So you will no longer by buying your FFG products on release day straight from Amazon. MM online store isn't any different than Amazon though they do have a retail store that supports gaming, so they still get products on release day, just not 9000 boxes.

Not every player has a local store that will stock Destiny or purchase OP kits for Destiny. For those that can't find an organized play event within an hour, should they just have to drive even further to preorder and purchase product? I think online sellers should just be accepted as a healthy part of the market that expands the interest in the game and increases accessibility of product to more potential players. We all want more players.

19 hours ago, soviet prince said:

the first wave should been big enough to cover the preorders at the very LEAST, what is the point of a preorder if it does not get you a copy on the day of release.

Okay, Ill bite again since you make me chuckle with your stupidity.

#1 SoR has been printing way long before Awakenings even released. The game is mfg'd 6+ months before its released.

#2 Soooo...do the math. Tell me what month that puts it back from today even. And when did the pre orders take place?

Now tell me youre answer and explain to me how YOU would produce and ship it if you have to do all this 6 months before release?

I'll wait...

~D

21 hours ago, Buhallin said:

Why is that? They're a retailer like any others, who operate at volume. The boxes aren't "suppose" to be going anywhere specific. They pay FFG and/or distributors for their product just like anyone else, and they sell it just like anyone else. I might as well argue that the other 5 shops in my area shouldn't get anything, because my preferred store deserves them all.

I much prefer buying from my local store whenever possible, but people need to get over these ham-handed attempts to strangle online sellers. Online sales are changing the way pretty much every product is sold, and the sooner people get over this idiotic protectionist attitude and figure out how to provide actual value within the brick-and-mortar stores the better off the entire industry will be.

And just for the record, I'm not a fan of MM either, but it has to do with cracking product to profit off singles rather than actually selling the product. This isn't unique or limited to online retailers, as I know a number of B&M shops that have done the same.

The job of protecting b&m sales should be FFG's, and their kits don't do it t well. And they are not free too. I don't separate online business from LGS because my own store (in a very distant country) has both and prices are the same both at the shop. Problem is that online sales push the prices down, and when the difference is high enough, people prefer to shop online. Me too, BTW, as I never have time going somewhere to shop in person.

Having LGS exclusive promotion helps, but it's not a cure for everything. For example it doesn't help me get more booster boxes.

Threads like this are exactly why FFG needs a full time Moderator if they don't have one. This is a sh!tpost and should have been deleted right away.

2 hours ago, Marshal8 said:

Same thing happened to MM. FFG said they had fixed supply, they were wrong. No surprises here for us pessimists, but I'm sure the white knight defenders are pissed. Oh well, maybe they'll run another printing after this one sells out. I really don't want scalpers to ruin this game, but with people trying to sell Sabine promos for $1,000 on Ebay, I guess it's inevitable.

Link to idiot on Ebay: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Star-Wars-Destiny-Sabine-Wren-Extended-Art-Celebration-Exclusive-/172637352451?hash=item2831fcf203:g:kQsAAOSwSypY-pD0 So

So I won a sabine but I am not allowed to sell it on ebay. So I am an idiot for selling it on ebay. I don't actually want to sell it, which is why I put it so high and let people make offers. I have now lowered it to close to what the offers were.

Lol, I'm not necessarily calling you out. I'm pointing out that FFG's handling of the game is making it a 'collector's item', and not a viable CCG. I was just using your ridiculous Ebay sale as 'exhibit one'.

3 minutes ago, dpb1298 said:

Lol, I'm not necessarily calling you out. I'm pointing out that FFG's handling of the game is making it a 'collector's item', and not a viable CCG. I was just using your ridiculous Ebay sale as 'exhibit one'.

And your "exhibit one" would get thrown out in court. It's a completely invalid comparison.

That card is 1 of 5 promotional giveaway items at a convention, is completely unplayable with no dice, and is from a set that won't release until the end of the year.

How that relates in any way to product scarcity killing the game beats me...

Purely anecdotal, but since the starter sets hit again my LGS has sold approximately zero of them. Could be people waiting for boosters before getting into the game, but it may also be that the current shortage/hype on SoR is driven entirely by existent players, and the conversion rate for the game has dropped dramatically.

4 hours ago, anthonybarnstable said:

Not every player has a local store that will stock Destiny or purchase OP kits for Destiny. For those that can't find an organized play event within an hour, should they just have to drive even further to preorder and purchase product? I think online sellers should just be accepted as a healthy part of the market that expands the interest in the game and increases accessibility of product to more potential players. We all want more players.

Pretty sure that is exactly why places like MM or Coolstuff get a 1000 boxes. They at least specialize in the gaming community unlike Amazon. They still under cut all the retail stores, so no, they won't get enough supply for everyone in the country to order from them and for go the local stores.

Wave 1 of SoR wasn't air mailed to the states or any where else. That was only the prerelease boxes. The would lose too much money shipping them that way.

@Buhallin I noticed the starter decks just setting around and collecting dust too. Seems everyone has all of those that they need. The supply of Awakening may have only been around 20% short of what it needed to be. Though those starter decks are on their 3rd printing now. This whole shipping in waves thing may just be FFG's way of keeping the supply artificially low to drive sales.

7 minutes ago, Mep said:

@Buhallin I noticed the starter decks just setting around and collecting dust too. Seems everyone has all of those that they need. The supply of Awakening may have only been around 20% short of what it needed to be. Though those starter decks are on their 3rd printing now. This whole shipping in waves thing may just be FFG's way of keeping the supply artificially low to drive sales.

"Everyone has all of those that they need" is pretty much exactly my point, and it's a problem. The major concern many people had with the shortages is that the hype would wear off, and many people who were interested in playing but couldn't wouldn't come back once product was available. It may be that they will once boosters are available, especially since the starters are unusually poor at providing a real play experience, but it's a real concern. In the mean time, though, it points to there not being a massive pool of players who are anxiously awaiting their opportunity to get into the game.

I doubt supply problems will kill the game. There have been other games that survived that challenge. I still say the real test comes in December when they have 3 expansions out and the first core set. Is there enough supply for demand then? Is the game even good enough at that point for there to even be demand?

It's just too early right now to make any judgements. The original star wars CCG didn't have supply problems and was a hit at first, but quickly fizzled away. This game needs a good year to know anything. The game still has room to grow though it could continue to shrink despite plenty of supply.

40 minutes ago, Mep said:

The original star wars CCG didn't have supply problems and was a hit at first, but quickly fizzled away.

Well, that's kind of the point of the concern, isn't it?

The vast, VAST majority of CCGs arc in a single direction - down. Even games which start off with a lot of hype quickly drop off. They're expensive games in an environment which provides more choice than ever. Destiny is a very solid game, but it also has a fair amount of poor choices working against it - making all dice rares increases the cost of even casual decks, the characters and ships people most identify with are a (numerically) small portion of decks, and locking popular characters behind legendary rarities makes it tough for people to play with the characters they love. That's only going to get worse as Awakenings vanishes, although if the reprint does manage to stay on shelves a while it may alleviate that. On the flip side it's definitely a good game (although I'm REALLY nervous about the direction SoR is going), and it is still Star Wars... but if you go back to Decipher's game, there's a reason Mains & Toys was such a popular deck style. Will people find Unkar Plott such a compelling character to play?

<shrug> I honestly don't know at this point, and I'm truly exhausted with the back-and-forth. Anything and everything that happens with this game is more of a Rorschach test at this point. But again, just historically the odds are against it. Right now, the current arc of the game's growth depends on two groups - ones who're still anxiously waiting to get in, and ones who gave up but will come back if they can actually buy it. How big are they? I have no idea, but starters sitting on the shelves should be a cause for concern because if all the demand for SoR is based on existent players then the game has already started its slide.

@Buhallin At this point it is all one big Rorschach test. Game is too new and not enough cards are out yet to make any determination. Each set will change the game in ways we have yet to find out. This is why I keep saying we will know something about this game in December when the core set comes out. Magic had horrid supply issues when it first came out and is still going strong as any of these types of games can. I personally think the lack of supply actually helps it, since it creates buzz, "it's the game so popular it sold out". When stock does become available it will get people interested because they know what it is from all the stories they heard about there not being stock.

Either way, product availability has never been the determining factor of a game's survival. The quality of the game and replay ability of the game is what's important, and we won't have a good feel for that until the core set releases. The survival of this game may rest largely with how good the Last Jedi is as well. If it is a great movie, people will be buying up everything star wars including this game. I also think there a lot FFG can do to promote this game, such as wide spread prerelease events, which they totally botched this last time. That hurts more than anything else. Though they really need to get on the tournament support, quarterly won't cut it, and draft kits as well. A big part of how well this game does really depends on how well FFG supports organized play.

I am going to go out on a limb here, but even in an ideal world we may find that Destiny goes away when/if FFG ever looses the Star Wars License.

Well that goes without saying..... We hope that they don't. Hasbro would run amuck trying to make these kinds of games.

4 hours ago, Mep said:

Pretty sure that is exactly why places like MM or Coolstuff get a 1000 boxes. They at least specialize in the gaming community unlike Amazon. They still under cut all the retail stores, so no, they won't get enough supply for everyone in the country to order from them and for go the local stores.

Wave 1 of SoR wasn't air mailed to the states or any where else. That was only the prerelease boxes. The would lose too much money shipping them that way.

@Buhallin I noticed the starter decks just setting around and collecting dust too. Seems everyone has all of those that they need. The supply of Awakening may have only been around 20% short of what it needed to be. Though those starter decks are on their 3rd printing now. This whole shipping in waves thing may just be FFG's way of keeping the supply artificially low to drive sales.

I'm not talking about the people who have a local store but choose to buy online anyways, I am talking about all of the people who DON'T have a local store because they are all too far away to be a reasonable drive. Should everyone who can't buy local just be told they can't play because online retailers are evil? No, we should encourage online retailers to exist because it allows those players that otherwise couldn't exist to play the game.

Are you sure about the air shipment? I remember it happening for the prerelease but I distinctly remember it ALSO being said it is happening for Wave 1, which is why the Wave seems so small.

Okay...

For those that don't have a local store, pretty sure that is exactly why places like MM and Coolstuff get a 1000 boxes. .......

It isn't wrong to buy online, but if you don't have a local store, maybe it's because you do buy online.

SoR was on the boat for a couple of months, so enough time. They may need to do some air shipments from the docks to the distributors since they are only shipping for one week rather than the normal two weeks. However the excuse they gave for not expanding the prerelease event was they had a small window while the boxes where being loaded on the boat to have some of them air mailed out. They simply didn't air mail a lot of them. You are the only one I heard them doing air mailing for wave 1 from, though I am sure you heard it some where. I can tell you, they are not air mailing that many boxes over seas when their margins are so thin. The pallet they mailed out for the SoR prerelease probably cost them a good amount.

15 hours ago, anthonybarnstable said:

I don't know if it was ever confirmed, but I had read that it was believed Someone higher up (Disney? Lucas film? Asmodee?) told FFG the release date was May 4 for promotional reasons when FFG had planned on a mid-to-late May launch. Because of this, for the first wave, they had to fly in product from China, so they flew in a very limited quantity. The rest of the product was sent by boat and the large wave FFG had planned now became Wave 2 instead of Wave 1 like they had originally planned. They tried their hardest to have a strong set launch, but promotional tie ins they didn't want were their undoing.

never heard of it, can you find a link?

13 hours ago, HoodieDM said:

Okay, Ill bite again since you make me chuckle with your stupidity.

#1 SoR has been printing way long before Awakenings even released. The game is mfg'd 6+ months before its released.

#2 Soooo...do the math. Tell me what month that puts it back from today even. And when did the pre orders take place?

Now tell me youre answer and explain to me how YOU would produce and ship it if you have to do all this 6 months before release?

I'll wait...

~D

maybe how ever other business manages to fulfill preorders??

10 hours ago, loki_tbc said:

Threads like this are exactly why FFG needs a full time Moderator if they don't have one. This is a sh!tpost and should have been deleted right away.

yes because deleting ever thread with anything negative is a swell idea

7 hours ago, Mep said:

@Buhallin At this point it is all one big Rorschach test. Game is too new and not enough cards are out yet to make any determination. Each set will change the game in ways we have yet to find out. This is why I keep saying we will know something about this game in December when the core set comes out. Magic had horrid supply issues when it first came out and is still going strong as any of these types of games can. I personally think the lack of supply actually helps it, since it creates buzz, "it's the game so popular it sold out". When stock does become available it will get people interested because they know what it is from all the stories they heard about there not being stock.

Either way, product availability has never been the determining factor of a game's survival. The quality of the game and replay ability of the game is what's important, and we won't have a good feel for that until the core set releases. The survival of this game may rest largely with how good the Last Jedi is as well. If it is a great movie, people will be buying up everything star wars including this game. I also think there a lot FFG can do to promote this game, such as wide spread prerelease events, which they totally botched this last time. That hurts more than anything else. Though they really need to get on the tournament support, quarterly won't cut it, and draft kits as well. A big part of how well this game does really depends on how well FFG supports organized play.

product availability is a big determine factor, how can you build a play group with 0 product?

7 hours ago, Mep said:

@Buhallin . Magic had horrid supply issues when it first came out and is still going strong as any of these types of games can.

I really wish people would stop using this as an example. Magic launched in a completely different environment, as a completely new style of game. Yes, it had ugly supply issues, but they were resolved before many people even heard of the game. If you tried to launch Magic today, I suspect it would fail rather dramatically, ironically largely because of the environment it created.

The point I'm trying to make is not strictly "Supply issues will kill the game". It's that history has shown that CCGs are terribly fragile things. ANYTHING can kill one, and every misstep makes that more likely. And you're probably right that we won't know for a while, but again, the trajectory on CCGs is about 95% downwards.