3 hours ago, Stay On The Leader said:

The reality is that only Scum ships with good green moves are really viable. Scyks currently aren't rocking it but if Inaldra/Pulsed Ray Shield are good enough to break into squads with Mindlink,then if the reality of that is that she becomes an 18pt Manaroo pissing around on the backline feeding focus with impunity then I'm not sure that's the sort of game experience we should be celebrating.

You don't need good greens. Stay stressed and have another ship do a green maneuver so get a focus.

It helps underperforming Scum ships. People incessantly complain about the Starviper or Syck dial not having good greens. Firstly, their dials are perfectly fine already, secondly Mindlink gives them focus when they're stressed so it doesn't even matter.

It's only really a problem with Asajj and Fenn. Everything else is fine with Mindlink.

Shadow caster should have no primary arc, just the mobile arc. As it is now you just set the arc to a side and fly around in circles, functionally indistinguishable from a fat turret. This also incentivizes using the Firespray, you get 2 arcs but your extra one is locked in place. This is also a kind of a buff to Ketsu pilot, so it's not all downside.

As it is now, why would I ever pick a Firespray when I could pick where I want my extra arc to go? Get an insane dial and a diagonal 180 degree arc, which combined with a green 3 speed turn is no different than outright having a PWT. For an equal or lesser amount of points.

Fenn, IDK. Defensive bonus requires that Fenn have you in his arc?

6 minutes ago, Turbo Toker said:

t's only really a problem with Asajj and Fenn. Everything else is fine with Mindlink.

Jumpmasters are not fine with mindlink. But then, they're not fine generally.

6 minutes ago, Turbo Toker said:

Shadow caster should have no primary arc, just the mobile arc. As it is now you just set the arc to a side and fly around in circles, functionally indistinguishable from a fat turret. This also incentivizes using the Firespray, you get 2 arcs but your extra one is locked in place. This is also a kind of a buff to Ketsu pilot, so it's not all downside.

Ketsu's ability stops functioning entirely if she doesn't have a primary arc and would need rewriting.

How would your proposed fix actually stop the perceived problem of 'set the arc to one side and fly gentle circles'? I've flown entire games with Assaj and never once moved her arc from its 'to one side' position, nor failed to have a ship in it.

18 minutes ago, thespaceinvader said:

You got very lucky to do 6 hull to Dengar in two attacks. Assaj very rarely has Target Locks and would often not want to spend her focus on the attack, or have already spent it by the time she attacks. Doing 6 damage in two hits is well over the odds even if he *didn't* have evade dice.

Push the limit :-) 1 TL + 1 focus each time. When you have Asajj with 2 TLT, shes got 50 points for herself. I might have had a TLT shot on him as well, not sure. I got a little lucky on offense but my point was more that i did manage to survive 4x attack from Dengar. 2 of those attacks were at range 1

Ah. Taking the TL instead of the evade is a great way to get killed IME.

It was probably the defence you got a bit lucky on there. Or both.

Assaj is tanky AF, but has to choose between tankiness and damage with most builds. Taking a TL instead of an evade costs you, taking K4 instead of Latts costs you, etc.

I like Debris Clouds to increase her defences actually. A well-placed cloud saved me at least 5 damage in one game earlier this week.

12 minutes ago, thespaceinvader said:

Jumpmasters are not fine with mindlink. But then, they're not fine generally.

Ketsu's ability stops functioning entirely if she doesn't have a primary arc and would need rewriting.

How would your proposed fix actually stop the perceived problem of 'set the arc to one side and fly gentle circles'? I've flown entire games with Assaj and never once moved her arc from its 'to one side' position, nor failed to have a ship in it.

Ketsu would require that rewording then.

It would fix that because sometimes ships would be in front of you that you wouldn't be able to fire at without moving the mobile arc. As it is now, you have a 180 diagonal arc, which is the only relevant part of your base that you need in order to function as a PWT.

Mindlink Jumpasters are just fine. Without Deadeye, their low PS and the long distance that their large bases carry them often prevent them from firing their torpedoes in the first engagement and for multiple turns after that because it's very easy to close to range one of a Jumpmaster that's currently at range three and flying towards you.

7 hours ago, Cerve said:

Are you really thinking about the background in this game?

I know all these points of view. I just ignore them for a better solution in-game.

Why shouldn't I? Yes, Gameplay > fluff, but the fluff is what makes the game Star Wars.

Your "better solution" has no precedence, as I have shown your Jabba example doesn't work. And I also disagree that your suggested fix is necessary, making the loss of fluff an actual factor.

1 hour ago, Turbo Toker said:

You don't need good greens. Stay stressed and have another ship do a green maneuver so get a focus.

It helps underperforming Scum ships. People incessantly complain about the Starviper or Syck dial not having good greens. Firstly, their dials are perfectly fine already, secondly Mindlink gives them focus when they're stressed so it doesn't even matter.

It's only really a problem with Asajj and Fenn. Everything else is fine with Mindlink.

Shadow caster should have no primary arc, just the mobile arc. As it is now you just set the arc to a side and fly around in circles, functionally indistinguishable from a fat turret. This also incentivizes using the Firespray, you get 2 arcs but your extra one is locked in place. This is also a kind of a buff to Ketsu pilot, so it's not all downside.

As it is now, why would I ever pick a Firespray when I could pick where I want my extra arc to go? Get an insane dial and a diagonal 180 degree arc, which combined with a green 3 speed turn is no different than outright having a PWT. For an equal or lesser amount of points.

Fenn, IDK. Defensive bonus requires that Fenn have you in his arc?

you obviously don't know what a build like Parattanni wants if you think that they don't want to get rid of stress as fast as possible. Ventress wants to either TL, Evade, or shift her mobile arc for her action (as long as Manny is providing the focus). If she doesn't have these options, her hits are potential weaker, she is easier to damage (not good for a tank), or someone can Arc dodge her and there is nothing she can do about it. Fenn has a similar problem because he either wants a second focus to help stay alive, use a repositinal action to get to a more desirable location, or TL for a range 1 shot. To say that he'll be just fine staying stressed and having just one focus shows a lack of understanding for the build.

And your analysis of the Lancer is off. Having no primary arc makes no sense as it clearly has forward facing guns. It is also a Pursuit vessel, which means it needs good armaments to take down what its pursuing. making it mobile arc only wouldn't remove your objection to it being too much like a PWT (which is debateable). It only weakens a ship that is in a good place. As for the Firespray, it has long ago been demoted to low tier use. Making ships that have to make the Firespray look good just means we have even more bad ships. The Lancer shouldn't be bragged down to that level, though the Firespray could stand being buffed up to the Lancer's level.

and you couldn't even make a clear argument against Fenn. Why even include him if you can't articulate why he is a problem?

15 minutes ago, SabineKey said:

you obviously don't know what a build like Parattanni wants if you think that they don't want to get rid of stress as fast as possible. Ventress wants to either TL, Evade, or shift her mobile arc for her action (as long as Manny is providing the focus). If she doesn't have these options, her hits are potential weaker, she is easier to damage (not good for a tank), or someone can Arc dodge her and there is nothing she can do about it. Fenn has a similar problem because he either wants a second focus to help stay alive, use a repositinal action to get to a more desirable location, or TL for a range 1 shot. To say that he'll be just fine staying stressed and having just one focus shows a lack of understanding for the build.

And your analysis of the Lancer is off. Having no primary arc makes no sense as it clearly has forward facing guns. It is also a Pursuit vessel, which means it needs good armaments to take down what its pursuing. making it mobile arc only wouldn't remove your objection to it being too much like a PWT (which is debateable). It only weakens a ship that is in a good place. As for the Firespray, it has long ago been demoted to low tier use. Making ships that have to make the Firespray look good just means we have even more bad ships. The Lancer shouldn't be bragged down to that level, though the Firespray could stand being buffed up to the Lancer's level.

and you couldn't even make a clear argument against Fenn. Why even include him if you can't articulate why he is a problem?

You obviously have a fundamental misunderstanding of a card like Mindlink if you think stress is relevant against it.

He's a problem for multiple reasons. He's too hard to kill for how powerful he is while also being cheaper than equivalent ace options like Soontir or Inquisitor with Prockets, and with the ability to also get focus while stressed or blocked. Here is a better fix: His ability only works defensively, not offensively.

He's Soontir with unlimited Proton Rockets for less points. If you don't see why that's a problem, there is nothing I could say to convince you.

Eh, Firespray with Mindlink isn't half bad. Like I've said before, Mindlink makes underperforming ships viable and good ones OP. If Parattanni had to use a Mercenary PS 5 Firespray instead of Asajj, it would still be a good list. Just not bonkers tier like it is/used to be.

I ran Bobatanni to cut at Regionals. It was good, but you always had a dodgy turn where the arc wasn't where you wanted it. I ran it as a genuine competitor to Paratanni (Boba's ability is SO nice with Mindlink/Manaroo) but ultimately the Shadowcaster is just that 10-20% better.

I do think Mindlink helps out the Firespray a bit because it makes it easier to eat the K-turn, so I was k-turning quite aggressively and keeping Focus. But yeah, it's better to just have a ship that doesn't have to k-turn because it's got a moveable arc.

30 minutes ago, Turbo Toker said:

You obviously have a fundamental misunderstanding of a card like Mindlink if you think stress is relevant against it.

He's a problem for multiple reasons. He's too hard to kill for how powerful he is while also being cheaper than equivalent ace options like Soontir or Inquisitor with Prockets, and with the ability to also get focus while stressed or blocked. Here is a better fix: His ability only works defensively, not offensively.

He's Soontir with unlimited Proton Rockets for less points. If you don't see why that's a problem, there is nothing I could say to convince you.

Eh, Firespray with Mindlink isn't half bad. Like I've said before, Mindlink makes underperforming ships viable and good ones OP. If Parattanni had to use a Mercenary PS 5 Firespray instead of Asajj, it would still be a good list. Just not bonkers tier like it is/used to be.

No, I'm speaking from experience of using it in several different builds. I stand by what I said about the Lancer and Fang. Staying stressed hamstrings them. That might not be fatal in all cases, but enough to consider the notion that they can just stay stressed preposterous.

For your Fenn argument: Fel and the Inquisitor play differently than Finn. The Inquisitor is best when used as a sniper rather than a procket carrier. And Fel is way more defensible then Fenn, what with being able to stack two focus and an evade every turn, if he so choices. Plus, the standard builds of both the Inquisitor and Fel include PTL because they don't have Mindlink. If we make things even by giving Fenn PTL, he come in and the exact same price as the Inquisitor with Prockets, and a point under Fel with PTL/title/AT/SD. Considering Fenn gets no evade, can't equip a second mod, or ignore range three bonuses (including AT), that looks to balance out well. Give the other two Mindlink, and it could still balance (though it would be interesting to see if Fel's ability would get good value with Mindlink).

Also, Fenn base costs more than Fel.

For the Firespray, it still isn't top tier with Mindlink, or we would see more of them at the system opens. Making the Lancer worse would not magically mean the Firespray would see more top level play. Once you can provide me with an example of a Mindlinked Firespray making top tables at a large event, then I will consider that the Lancer is suppressing Firespray use. Until then, this argument rings hollow.

and there is still the whole point that Jumpmasters pop up in more Mindlinked lists than Lancers that you don't touch.

15 hours ago, Stay On The Leader said:

I ran Bobatanni to cut at Regionals. It was good, but you always had a dodgy turn where the arc wasn't where you wanted it. I ran it as a genuine competitor to Paratanni (Boba's ability is SO nice with Mindlink/Manaroo) but ultimately the Shadowcaster is just that 10-20% better.

I do think Mindlink helps out the Firespray a bit because it makes it easier to eat the K-turn, so I was k-turning quite aggressively and keeping Focus. But yeah, it's better to just have a ship that doesn't have to k-turn because it's got a moveable arc.

ANd this is what bugs me about Mindlink. I really wish it could give under-used ships like the Firespray and the Scyk that kick they need to get into genuine competitiveness, and it could.

If it weren't SO good on the Fang, Lancer, and JM5k.

Hey, actually, maybe THAT's a possible fix:

Append 'You must treat your [turn] manoeuvres as white.'

Now it's way better for the ships without green turns than the ones with them, because they don't lose anything at all to use it.

33 minutes ago, thespaceinvader said:

ANd this is what bugs me about Mindlink. I really wish it could give under-used ships like the Firespray and the Scyk that kick they need to get into genuine competitiveness, and it could.

If it weren't SO good on the Fang, Lancer, and JM5k.

Hey, actually, maybe THAT's a possible fix:

Append 'You must treat your [turn] manoeuvres as white.'

Now it's way better for the ships without green turns than the ones with them, because they don't lose anything at all to use it.

That's a good idea.

It even makes it good on Kavil, because it gives him a white 3-turn, and makes it a little more possible for him to consider an astromech other than Unhinged.