My instincts have always been to trust FFG. I have just played so many games that were worse that X-wing in terms of balance and broken things. Even when I played Dangaroo for the first time in a tournament, and left with my mouth tasting like bile, I had to congratulate my opponent on making a list that I just couldn't touch.

That being said, I have been getting my new post-mega-nerf tournament list ready and watching the rest of the meta and I think Atanni Mindlink needs a little help. And not because I have been flying against it but because I have been using it and it is crazy good. Add the this a quick look at the lists that are winning tournaments and Mindlink keeps coming up a lot.

Here is the problem as I see it. When you first look at mind link you can tell it is a really powerful card but with a pretty strap price. You would think that mind link lists would be vulnerable to stress. But they are not. The fact that Attanni Mindlink doesn't give you a stress if you are already stressed and well, can give you a focus if you are stressed means that it deals with stress pretty well. The only thing you can't do is multiple red maneuvers in the same turn. If I am going to do one red manuvure I can give my other ships green moves and then have them go after the stressor and they are clear, they still get to take the focus if they want and give it out to the stressed ship. If I really want to do white maneuvers on the turn another ship is going to get stressed, you just go first. (Sure these shenanigans only work if you have multiple ships with the same PS, but that's not that uncommon on Mindlink lists)

In Short, stress was supposed to be (at least that is how it appeared to me at first) a liability for Atanni Mindlink, but it turns out the Mindlink list are some of the most stress resistant lists in the game.

So what would my fix be? Simple, either let ships that are already stressed get more stress from Mindlink or not let stressed ships get the focus. It would still be very good. Still something some people would take, but it wouldn't be an auto-include for all scum players.

I'd take your later fix... or just make the card unique and you pick a target of the link at deployment

21 minutes ago, Hrathen said:

My instincts have always been to trust FFG. I have just played so many games that were worse that X-wing in terms of balance and broken things. Even when I played Dangaroo for the first time in a tournament, and left with my mouth tasting like bile, I had to congratulate my opponent on making a list that I just couldn't touch.

That being said, I have been getting my new post-mega-nerf tournament list ready and watching the rest of the meta and I think Atanni Mindlink needs a little help. And not because I have been flying against it but because I have been using it and it is crazy good. Add the this a quick look at the lists that are winning tournaments and Mindlink keeps coming up a lot.

Here is the problem as I see it. When you first look at mind link you can tell it is a really powerful card but with a pretty strap price. You would think that mind link lists would be vulnerable to stress. But they are not. The fact that Attanni Mindlink doesn't give you a stress if you are already stressed and well, can give you a focus if you are stressed means that it deals with stress pretty well. The only thing you can't do is multiple red maneuvers in the same turn. If I am going to do one red manuvure I can give my other ships green moves and then have them go after the stressor and they are clear, they still get to take the focus if they want and give it out to the stressed ship. If I really want to do white maneuvers on the turn another ship is going to get stressed, you just go first. (Sure these shenanigans only work if you have multiple ships with the same PS, but that's not that uncommon on Mindlink lists)

In Short, stress was supposed to be (at least that is how it appeared to me at first) a liability for Atanni Mindlink, but it turns out the Mindlink list are some of the most stress resistant lists in the game.

So what would my fix be? Simple, either let ships that are already stressed get more stress from Mindlink or not let stressed ships get the focus. It would still be very good. Still something some people would take, but it wouldn't be an auto-include for all scum players.

Attanni Mindlink should give other ships free focus actions. This would make stress relevant against them. Allowing stress to stack with Mindlink would accomplish nothing in games against opponents without weaponized stress, and would make Mindlink players automatically lose to any list with weaponized stress in it.

Considering that Expertise costs 4 points and only works if you're not stressed, I think this is fair.

It's not really Mindlink itself, before the Protectorate and Lancer came out it was reasonable. So while Mindlink is a bit ahead of the curve on the Lancer and Protectorate, it brings other ships that are behind the curve such as the Quadjumper, Kirahxz, M3-A, G1-A, HWK, Firespray, and Starviper up to speed. It makes everything that's underperforming and Scum at least somewhat viable. I kind of like that about the card.

The meta is currently pretty well balanced, so I don't think this would be as necessary as the FAQ nerfs were. Same with TLT. They are a little annoying, but it's not the end of the world if they don't get changed.

What if you didn't assign focuses to stressed ships?

1 hour ago, Turbo Toker said:

Attanni Mindlink should give other ships free focus actions. This would make stress relevant against them.

I agree, this was just enough to bring the /x7 Defenders into balance and should work well with Mindlink.

I believe most people would want the card to read: This card does nothing!.

Nah, Turbo's idea is ideal.

Next best would be to limit it to "max two per list".

1 hour ago, Panax said:

I believe most people would want the card to read: This card does nothing!.

For only 1 single point the card should´´ not do THIS much!

It is undercostet really much. It is like a super cheap PUSH THE LIMIT, with no stress for the carrier. Oh and not only this - it protects from stress. As others said - stress is no weakness for a attanni list. It makes it relativly stress resistant. Even if 1 ship is loaded with stress (from a stressbot) - only 1 green maneuver from any one of the other ships and the stressloaded ship gets his focus too. Besides all other ships.

Same nerf like Defenders! The card should read: Each time you are assigned a focus each other friendly ship with Attanni Mindlink may perform a free focus action. Each time you are assigned a stress token, each other friendly ship with Attanni Mindlink must also be assigned a stress token if it does not already have one.

So NO 2 Focus for Attanni (or even triple focus with Manaroo). No focus when you ships are stressed - making stress a weapon against this kind of list. Manaroo can still give Fenn Rau his 2nd Focus if he needs it badly and a target lock most of the time.

With how massive the last faq nerfing was, I'm pretty sure that ffg did testing and concluded mindlink was not the problem. Otherwise it would have been nerfed along with the others.

Mindlink is fine now that Manaroo is nerfed. Manaroo was the problem before.

Easy.

"Small ships only."


Honestly, yes, I love the mindlink way to work but now....why I have to choose different EPTs? AM is simply the best EPT of the game.
Now think about it. Scum's large ships are amazing, where Scum's small ships are....kinda meh (minus Protectorate). Why I have to take a Scyk Swarm when I can take a Jumpmaster? Or a Shadowcaster?

They got a mistake by nerfing Deadeye. But with Mindilink they will not. First of all, it is already "Scum Only". Seconds, no one is screwing about a Mindlinked Fenn Rau. Yes he is strong, but not precisely broken.
All of the complain comes into green maneuvers for large ships! That's why Attanni Mindlink rocks! AM is an amazing EPT that is duty was to help SMALL SCUM SHIPS. Not to boosting already good scum large ships.

PTL on Shadowcaster still great, that's why the 3 green turns. PTL on the old Manaroo was great, PTL on Tel/Dengar still great. Seriously, there's no need to buff those large ships.
What is needed was a way to bring Scyks on the table, Kihraxzes on the table, and Starvipers on the table. Heck, even N'Dru and Kaato will love Attanni Mindlink.
Oh, and I forgot Palob!

I will not like any other fix. No needs to bring AM on range (which 1-3 will still too much, and 1-2 or minus will turn AM as an unplayable EPT). I want to see small ships again into the Scum Faction. Attanni Mindilink seems written for mates like Palob, like Guri....not for boosting Shadowcasters and co.
Listbuilding in scum faction, now, is SO BORING...when you cut AM, you feels like you are playing without an hand. When you cut AM Shadowcaster/Jumpaster is the same.
3 MangoScyk+Plaob, 3 HLCScyk+KaatoTracer, 2-3mixedScyk+Guri are all 3 fun and competitive lists. But why I have to bring theme in game, when I can simply run a Parattanni, or any Jumpmaster mindlinked list? Those are simply better......and less fun.
Event 3 AM Protectorates are great!....those 2 beast lists still better. And pretty boring to play with.

So, FFG in my opinion really needs to do TWO things:
1) Restore Manaroo as before (she were fixed 'casue Attanni, not for herself...). Illimitate range.
2) Bring Attanni Mindlink as "Scum Only. Small Ships Only".


Can you immagine how good will be a future with 2 archetype for Scum? See for the first time a completely small ships scum list? Or just some large ships, without AM?
Both of the ways will be playable and competitive. Please FFG, read this! I play only scum for flavour, but now I'm getting bored of this game, 'cause of Attanni everywhere.

5 minutes ago, Cerve said:

Easy.

"Small ships only."


Honestly, yes, I love the mindlink way to work but now....why I have to choose different EPTs? AM is simply the best EPT of the game.
Now think about it. Scum's large ships are amazing, where Scum's small ships are....kinda meh (minus Protectorate). Why I have to take a Scyk Swarm when I can take a Jumpmaster? Or a Shadowcaster?

They got a mistake by nerfing Deadeye. But with Mindilink they will not. First of all, it is already "Scum Only". Seconds, no one is screwing about a Mindlinked Fenn Rau. Yes he is strong, but not precisely broken.
All of the complain comes into green maneuvers for large ships! That's why Attanni Mindlink rocks! AM is an amazing EPT that is duty was to help SMALL SCUM SHIPS. Not to boosting already good scum large ships.

PTL on Shadowcaster still great, that's why the 3 green turns. PTL on the old Manaroo was great, PTL on Tel/Dengar still great. Seriously, there's no need to buff those large ships.
What is needed was a way to bring Scyks on the table, Kihraxzes on the table, and Starvipers on the table. Heck, even N'Dru and Kaato will love Attanni Mindlink.
Oh, and I forgot Palob!

I will not like any other fix. No needs to bring AM on range (which 1-3 will still too much, and 1-2 or minus will turn AM as an unplayable EPT). I want to see small ships again into the Scum Faction. Attanni Mindilink seems written for mates like Palob, like Guri....not for boosting Shadowcasters and co.
Listbuilding in scum faction, now, is SO BORING...when you cut AM, you feels like you are playing without an hand. When you cut AM Shadowcaster/Jumpaster is the same.
3 MangoScyk+Plaob, 3 HLCScyk+KaatoTracer, 2-3mixedScyk+Guri are all 3 fun and competitive lists. But why I have to bring theme in game, when I can simply run a Parattanni, or any Jumpmaster mindlinked list? Those are simply better......and less fun.
Event 3 AM Protectorates are great!....those 2 beast lists still better. And pretty boring to play with.

So, FFG in my opinion really needs to do TWO things:
1) Restore Manaroo as before (she were fixed 'casue Attanni, not for herself...). Illimitate range.
2) Bring Attanni Mindlink as "Scum Only. Small Ships Only".


Can you immagine how good will be a future with 2 archetype for Scum? See for the first time a completely small ships scum list? Or just some large ships, without AM?
Both of the ways will be playable and competitive. Please FFG, read this! I play only scum for flavour, but now I'm getting bored of this game, 'cause of Attanni everywhere.

Will never happen. Mindlink comes in a big ship.

Just now, xstormtrooperx said:

Will never happen. Mindlink comes in a big ship.

I don't care about it, if it is ruin my game.

But FFG will never be so brave to do something like this...so yes, you're right.

27 minutes ago, BlodVargarna said:

Funny. Never seen that before.

1 hour ago, Cerve said:

What is needed was a way to bring Scyks on the table, Kihraxzes on the table, and Starvipers on the table. Heck, even N'Dru and Kaato will love Attanni Mindlink.
Oh, and I forgot Palob!

Riiiight....people will totally do that, and not run 2 Protectorates (Fenn and Teroch) with Attani + Manaroo or a Scout

1 hour ago, Cerve said:

Easy.

"Small ships only."


2) Bring Attanni Mindlink as "Scum Only. Small Ships Only".

That's the most stupid thing I've read all day. Both Manaroo and Dengar are large ships.

1 hour ago, xstormtrooperx said:

Funny. Never seen that before.

Never seen a " does x need a nerf" thread either.

But, if I may as an Imperial first guy, Mindlink may actually be the only thing that brings Arc dodging Aces fun back into tier one, albeit when one flies Scum...which seems so awful backwards and un-Star Wars. But I digress, I'll need to pick up two Protectorates and start flying Scum to be Imperial at heart against the best of the best. The best Imp fighter now flies and shoots like a Rebel IMO, so it shouldn't feel any better to fly than the Protectorates I'm betting. I'm hoping to love Protectorates as I love Interceptors.....lament a bit here.

In that vein, I hope FFG leaves Mindlink alone, for at least the fighters, or this game will continue down the increasingly crappy path it has taken.

Sorry for the salt, I am looking forward to flying Interceptors, errrr, um, Protectorates, with almost unremovable action efficiencies.

Mindlink isn't a problem on any Scum large ships except for the Lancer. Mindlink Torp scouts aren't really that much of a problem, and expensive Jumpmasters like Dengar or Tel are better off with Expertise or Lone Wolf.

People like to complain about large bases all the time, sometimes the complaints are reasonable such as the extra distance they travel when they maneuver and boost, and the sometimes crazy dials they get. Other times it's just stupid ****.

Taking Mindlink off of large bases only stops the Lancer from being obnoxious, it doesn't actually stop anything else that's OP that uses Mindlink.

Those that think Non-Deadeye torp scouts are OP are clueless. You have a fundamental misunderstanding of why they used to be overpowered. It was Deadeye. All you do is see 3 U-Boats with torpedoes on the table and start screeching, that's not actually a reasoned appraisal of their power.

3 minutes ago, Turbo Toker said:

Mindlink isn't a problem on any Scum large ships except for the Lancer. Mindlink Torp scouts aren't really that much of a problem, and expensive Jumpmasters like Dengar or Tel are better off with Expertise or Lone Wolf.

People like to complain about large bases all the time, sometimes the complaints are reasonable such as the extra distance they travel when they maneuver and boost, and the sometimes crazy dials they get. Other times it's just stupid ****.

Taking Mindlink off of large bases only stops the Lancer from being obnoxious, it doesn't actually stop anything else that's OP that uses Mindlink.

Those that think Non-Deadeye torp scouts are OP are clueless. You have a fundamental misunderstanding of why they used to be overpowered. It was Deadeye. All you do is see 3 U-Boats with torpedoes on the table and start screeching, that's not actually a reasoned appraisal of their power.

Not sure where you are coming from with any of this. Most of the winning Mindlink lists have Contracted Scouts, and the torp version is doing very well for itself. Heck, Manny is still out and about more than Lancers. I've seen maybe one other person complain about Mindlinked Lancers, compared to a mountain of complaints leveled at Jumpmasters. Not sure where you are getting your data from.

The simple fix is, Any ship that bumps does not get mindlink (Fluff could be they are too busy focusing on not killing themselves). This makes blocking a thing again.

I actually disagree with this. Mindlink is a good card. The problem (as always) is the Jumpmaster. I challenge you to find a top tier competitive Mindlink list that does not include the Jumpmaster. The only one that comes to mind is Oli's Asajj/Fenn/Teroch list, and that list actually takes a ton of skill to fly since you need to drop the titles on the two Protectorates.

4 minutes ago, defkhan1 said:

I actually disagree with this. Mindlink is a good card. The problem (as always) is the Jumpmaster. I challenge you to find a top tier competitive Mindlink list that does not include the Jumpmaster. The only one that comes to mind is Oli's Asajj/Fenn/Teroch list, and that list actually takes a ton of skill to fly since you need to drop the titles on the two Protectorates.

Or you keep both titles and drop one autothrusters (from teroch). I'd rather have 1 partly gimped and 1 with full defensive upgrades ten partly gimp both

4 hours ago, BlodVargarna said:

I'm going to be using the word nerf in place for swear words until FFG decides to *** it!

11 hours ago, Hrathen said:

My instincts have always been to trust FFG. I have just played so many games that were worse that X-wing in terms of balance and broken things. Even when I played Dangaroo for the first time in a tournament, and left with my mouth tasting like bile, I had to congratulate my opponent on making a list that I just couldn't touch.

That being said, I have been getting my new post-mega-nerf tournament list ready and watching the rest of the meta and I think Atanni Mindlink needs a little help. And not because I have been flying against it but because I have been using it and it is crazy good. Add the this a quick look at the lists that are winning tournaments and Mindlink keeps coming up a lot.

Here is the problem as I see it. When you first look at mind link you can tell it is a really powerful card but with a pretty strap price. You would think that mind link lists would be vulnerable to stress. But they are not. The fact that Attanni Mindlink doesn't give you a stress if you are already stressed and well, can give you a focus if you are stressed means that it deals with stress pretty well. The only thing you can't do is multiple red maneuvers in the same turn. If I am going to do one red manuvure I can give my other ships green moves and then have them go after the stressor and they are clear, they still get to take the focus if they want and give it out to the stressed ship. If I really want to do white maneuvers on the turn another ship is going to get stressed, you just go first. (Sure these shenanigans only work if you have multiple ships with the same PS, but that's not that uncommon on Mindlink lists)

In Short, stress was supposed to be (at least that is how it appeared to me at first) a liability for Atanni Mindlink, but it turns out the Mindlink list are some of the most stress resistant lists in the game.

So what would my fix be? Simple, either let ships that are already stressed get more stress from Mindlink or not let stressed ships get the focus. It would still be very good. Still something some people would take, but it wouldn't be an auto-include for all scum players.

Go Nerf Off You Scruffy Looking Nerf Herder!

I'll Nerf Your List Up!

Don't Nerf With Me, Nerf Herder!