Today I flew:

Old Teroch and Fenn Rau, each with Mindlink, CDP, and Autothrusters

And Guri with Mindlink, Virago, FCS, Cloaking Device, and Autothrusters.

It was pretty good. I lost the cloak early in every game, but since next turn I was going to be engaging anyways, I just used it as a sideways or forward super boost.

Guri is also nice against Carnor. If Carnor closes to range one of her, your whole list gets focus tokens.

This is already a competitive build. If FFG is not careful, we could have another TIE/x7 situation. Vessery was decent before Imperial Veterans, and Guri is relatively better than Vessery used to be.

I'm gonna play with this. I like the thought behind it.

I like Guri quite a bit, and I agree if FFG buffs the Viper, she becomes quite potent immediately. Been having fun with this list as of late while prepping for the CROC release-

Palob Godalhi (20)
Attanni Mindlink (1)
Twin Laser Turret (6)
4-LOM (1)
Pulsed Ray Shield (2)

Inaldra (15)
Attanni Mindlink (1)
Heavy Laser Cannon (7)
Pulsed Ray Shield (2)
"Heavy Scyk" Interceptor (Cannon) (2)

Guri (30)
Attanni Mindlink (1)
Proton Torpedoes (4)
Fire-Control System (2)
Scavenger Crane (2)
Stealth Device (3)
Virago (1)

Total: 100

View in Yet Another Squad Builder

If I'm being honest with myself, Guri isn't doing as much for me as Rau would likely do in the same spot, but since I'm not looking to fly a pilot that is already a meta staple, a stocked up Guri is a fun optoin.

I think Guri is inherently limited by her PS 5. Even with VI she only gets up to 7.

Compare her to Countess Ryad. Both have amazing pilot abilities that would probably be broken on PS 8 or 9 pilots.

I think when they buff the star viper she will definitely become a top scum ace, but I don't think she will be broken.

4 minutes ago, KommanderKeldoth said:

I think Guri is inherently limited by her PS 5. Even with VI she only gets up to 7.

Compare her to Countess Ryad. Both have amazing pilot abilities that would probably be broken on PS 8 or 9 pilots.

I think when they buff the star viper she will definitely become a top scum ace, but I don't think she will be broken.

Similar to ryad, you don't need VI. she's plenty potent at ps5, and works great in a mondlink squad to give your whole list focus tokens without needing the action. Means you get it even if Stressed or bumped

41 minutes ago, KommanderKeldoth said:

I think Guri is inherently limited by her PS 5. Even with VI she only gets up to 7.

Compare her to Countess Ryad. Both have amazing pilot abilities that would probably be broken on PS 8 or 9 pilots.

I think when they buff the star viper she will definitely become a top scum ace, but I don't think she will be broken.

Vessery is only PS 6. Ryad is only PS 5. They're the best Defenders, just like Guri is the best Starviper. And before the Palp and x7 nerfs, they were broken.

They don't need their PS that much. Guri can use her medium PS to block high PS ships, which nets 3 focus tokens for your whole list and one less ship shooting at her.

With not as many arc dodgers around anymore, the necessity to have your own that moves at an even higher PS than your opponent's isn't there.

Nice list, and I am glad your are having fun with Guri, her ability is great. However your Guri build clocks in at 38pt, which is just a little too much for what she deliveres, considering you could bring mindlinked Ventress or Manaroo with torps instead.

Unlike the x7 title which (still) allows you to stack focus+evade tokens - Guri "only" adds a focus, which does open up for your 3 ships to arc dodge and then rely on the focus from Guri, there are no token stacking except for Guri herself. And should you opponent manage just to stay out of R1 due to her low PS, while you rely on the focus from Guri...your'e toast.

That said, I certainly agree that FFG should be careful when they fix the Starviper, and I like the change of pace on the forum away from "fix this and that" your thread brings.

If Guri was competitive, she wouldn't cost 2 points more than Fenn for a worse dial, worse durability, and 4 less PS, and she'd be seen at top tables.

She's fun, and she's certainly not outright junk, but she's not competitive.

Fenn is undercosted power creep.

Fenn is maybe a point under.

Guri is still at least 3 points over. Load her out to a similar toughness as Fenn (ATs, Virago, Sensor Jammer) and she costs 6 points more than him.

Or for a better comparison, the not-overcosted Kad Solus, who has a similar ability, mildly worse durability but a much better dial, and 1 point more PS, and costs 29 points with Mindlink, Title, Autothrusters, where Guri costs 33 with Mindlink, Autothrusters...

Guri has always been competitive she just takes skill to bring out her full potential.

I laugh when I take here against Swams, TLT and Fat Turrets and anything that is Low PS. High PS is a challenge but that's where the skill comes in

9 hours ago, Turbo Toker said:

Today I flew:

Old Teroch and Fenn Rau, each with Mindlink, CDP, and Autothrusters

And Guri with Mindlink, Virago, FCS, Cloaking Device, and Autothrusters.

I think this is a great list on paper, and it draws me towards it because it harkens back, in many ways, to when the game was about agile fighters living on a knife's edge in violent asteroid field engagements. The Mindlink makes Scum Aces sooooo much more resilient to the current meta. I own two Vipers, but no protectorates; guess that'll need to change ?

Title:

Star Viper Only

Adaptive Thrusters

0 pts

All Sloops on dial count as white. May be taken with another title.

Star viper is fixed

17 minutes ago, eagletsi111 said:

Title:

Star Viper Only

Adaptive Thrusters

0 pts

All Sloops on dial count as white. May be taken with another title.

Star viper is fixed

Not until you also make it cheaper. White sloops doesn't make the PS1 starviper worth 25 points compared to a 20 point Protectorate

On 4/23/2017 at 0:06 AM, Turbo Toker said:

Vessery is only PS 6. Ryad is only PS 5. They're the best Defenders, just like Guri is the best Starviper. And before the Palp and x7 nerfs, they were broken.

They don't need their PS that much. Guri can use her medium PS to block high PS ships, which nets 3 focus tokens for your whole list and one less ship shooting at her.

With not as many arc dodgers around anymore, the necessity to have your own that moves at an even higher PS than your opponent's isn't there.

You keep using that phrase...I don't think it means what you think it means.

A pre X-7 defender was broken? Surely you jest.

7 minutes ago, VanderLegion said:

Not until you also make it cheaper. White sloops doesn't make the PS1 starviper worth 25 points compared to a 20 point Protectorate

If you gave systems slots and illicit slots to all starvipers and then just threw away the Virago title, a PS one Starviper with FCS and Autothrusters for 29 points isn't a bad deal. That's essentially an x7 Delta.

Just now, Scopes said:

You keep using that phrase...I don't think it means what you think it means.

A pre X-7 defender was broken? Surely you jest.

After x7 had come out, but before the FAQ nerf to it.

13 minutes ago, VanderLegion said:

Not until you also make it cheaper. White sloops doesn't make the PS1 starviper worth 25 points compared to a 20 point Protectorate

Actually yes it does. the dial on the viper has more options, and the viper has a shield. So for 5 more points and extra shield, and white sloops and a dial with more 1's.

You might want to check the dials and stats again.

I believe that the one thing that makes both the starviper and the Jumpmaster on alternate sides of the broken coin is the number of green maneuvers. Take away the Jumpmaster straight greens, and add 2 greens across the dial on the SV and I think they will balance.

2 minutes ago, balindamood said:

I believe that the one thing that makes both the starviper and the Jumpmaster on alternate sides of the broken coin is the number of green maneuvers. Take away the Jumpmaster straight greens, and add 2 greens across the dial on the SV and I think they will balance.

The Starviper doesn't need green turns.

With Mindlink, you can get a focus when stressed anyways. With FCS, you get a Target Lock when stressed anyways.

2 minutes ago, Turbo Toker said:

The Starviper doesn't need green turns.

With Mindlink, you can get a focus when stressed anyways. With FCS, you get a Target Lock when stressed anyways.

If mindlink were part of the ship, I might agree, but find another EPT that scum use right now. Mindlink is the scum version of the Biggs/Palpatine crutch, and it does not help the generics.

1 hour ago, Turbo Toker said:

If you gave systems slots and illicit slots to all starvipers and then just threw away the Virago title, a PS one Starviper with FCS and Autothrusters for 29 points isn't a bad deal. That's essentially an x7 Delta.

If they did that it'd probably be fine. Not quite an x7 delta, 1 less health, 2 less shields and no evades, but better offense. Definitely better than it is now

1 hour ago, eagletsi111 said:

Actually yes it does. the dial on the viper has more options, and the viper has a shield. So for 5 more points and extra shield, and white sloops and a dial with more 1's.

You might want to check the dials and stats again.

Having flown both ships anton, I know the dials and stats quite well.

Go check again. Starviper has 16 maneuvers and no kturn, only sloops. Protectorate has 17 maneuvers, with kturn and talon rolls. And green hard turns. I'd give dial to the protectorate.

Starviper does have 1 more shield, but that's worth about a point. Especially given that the protectorate can spend 1 point on the title, which has decent odds of blocking at least one damage, making it just as good as the shield on the viper, and can potentially stop more.

Without the virago title (which generics can't take) you have the exact same upgrades. As-is, I wouldn't pay more than 21 for anps1 starviper. White sloops are worth maybe a point or two. So maybe 23 points with white sloops.

1 hour ago, Turbo Toker said:

The Starviper doesn't need green turns.

With Mindlink, you can get a focus when stressed anyways. With FCS, you get a Target Lock when stressed anyways.

Until you get stressed and can't turn and clear at the same time. Green turns are a big part of why fenn ray and asajj are so good with mindlink

edit: and as a Balindamood pointed out, mindlink does nothing for the generics, which need the most help. Guri is at least somewhat flyable

8 minutes ago, VanderLegion said:

If they did that it'd probably be fine. Not quite an x7 delta, 1 less health, 2 less shields and no evades, but better offense. Definitely better than it is now

Having flown both ships anton, I know the dials and stats quite well.

Go check again. Starviper has 16 maneuvers and no kturn, only sloops. Protectorate has 17 maneuvers, with kturn and talon rolls. And green hard turns. I'd give dial to the protectorate.

Starviper does have 1 more shield, but that's worth about a point. Especially given that the protectorate can spend 1 point on the title, which has decent odds of blocking at least one damage, making it just as good as the shield on the viper, and can potentially stop more.

Without the virago title (which generics can't take) you have the exact same upgrades. As-is, I wouldn't pay more than 21 for anps1 starviper. White sloops are worth maybe a point or two. So maybe 23 points with white sloops.

Until you get stressed and can't turn and clear at the same time. Green turns are a big part of why fenn ray and asajj are so good with mindlink

Remember, the Starviper wouldn't be able to evade but it would have Autothrusters. In a meta with increasing amounts of TLT and turrets in general, a 29 point Starviper with AT may end up more durable than an x7 Delta, in addition to being more mobile with boost, and more offensive with FCS.

If I could do that, I'd fly 2 Starvipers and Asajj or Bossk or whatever. Would be pretty good.

With other Mindlink ships, especially ones that can green turn, your Starviper has less and less need for green turns itself.

Starviper sloops, another ship does a green and you get a focus anyways. Starviper does a white hard one turn while still stressed, another ship moves and you get a focus anyways.

35 minutes ago, Turbo Toker said:

Remember, the Starviper wouldn't be able to evade but it would have Autothrusters. In a meta with increasing amounts of TLT and turrets in general, a 29 point Starviper with AT may end up more durable than an x7 Delta, in addition to being more mobile with boost, and more offensive with FCS.

Yah depends on the matchup. Against anything that isn't tlt, the evade is better if there's only 1 shot. Multiple autothrusters triggers in a round will boost the defense more. Still doesn't help in the comparison with (the almost identical) protectorates.

35 minutes ago, Turbo Toker said:

If I could do that, I'd fly 2 Starvipers and Asajj or Bossk or whatever. Would be pretty good.

With other Mindlink ships, especially ones that can green turn, your Starviper has less and less need for green turns itself.

Starviper sloops, another ship does a green and you get a focus anyways. Starviper does a white hard one turn while still stressed, another ship moves and you get a focus anyways.

Again, for guri of Xizor that's fine. Doesn't do a thing for generics that can't use mindlink anyway, and are the worst off for being so ridiculously overpriced.

13 minutes ago, VanderLegion said:

Yah depends on the matchup. Against anything that isn't tlt, the evade is better if there's only 1 shot. Multiple autothrusters triggers in a round will boost the defense more. Still doesn't help in the comparison with (the almost identical) protectorates.

Again, for guri of Xizor that's fine. Doesn't do a thing for generics that can't use mindlink anyway, and are the worst off for being so ridiculously overpriced.

If they got free Virago, they wouldn't be so ridiculously overpriced. They'd be perfectly balanced. And then if you pay extra, you can get Mindlink and some snazzy pilot abilities.