After the faq we know Fire control team and assault proton torpedos do not stack. Apparently the apt card is considered the first damage card.

Hence, if I use acm and the standard critical, and the neighboring hullzones have no shields, then by the faq logic the first damage card from the acm crit is dealt face up.

Same for one of the ion cannons, forgot the name.

Does that make sense or am I missing something?

Indeed, that's what the FAQ seems to imply. Which is odd, because up until now damage [cards] dealt "by this attack" was generally understood as separate from damage [cards] dealt by crit effects.

ACM is a non-standard critical effect.

This happens before doing the standard damage.

If you activate ACM and one of the adjacent hull zones does not have a shield, you would do one face down damage.

After you have resolved ACM you would do your normal damage, since you have FCT and you could then do the standard critical effect, your first damage card would be critical face up.

The timing on placing the face up card should not matter (since you do not know what the next card is) but that would be the correct order.

This basically stops people from dealing two face up cards with one attack.

But the new faq implies that "first damage card" includes any dealt during the resolve crit step. So I would deal the first acm card face up, and all others face down.

The consequence is that you can "shoot around" a hullzone that still has shields if an adjacent zone has no shields.

Modise, I think you missed Xeletor's point.

Say you're attacking the fully shielded front arc of an ISD, while the left hull zone has no shields left. Your attack deals 2 damage, but you can resolve two crit effecs thanks to FCT.

You resolve the default crit first, which does nothing just yet but will entitle you to flip the first damage card dealt faceup.

Then you resolve ACM. It deals one damage to the right hull zone, which removes one shield. It then deals one damage to the left hull zone, which means a damage card... faceup because of the default crit.

Then you deal the normal attack damage, which bounces off the front shields... unless the faceup card was Misaligned Projectors, in which case it goes straight into the hull! But yes, in that case (or if damage had been greater than the remaining shields) all cards would be dealt facedown since "the first card dealt by this attack" was the one from ACM.

Edit: Ninja'd!

Ninja'd but you your post has more dramatic effect

There's a pretty detailed discussion here in which @Silver Crane , ironically, details exactly why the APT/FCT ruling applies here . He's arguing against it, but hangs the entire argument on the interpretation that special crits are not part of the damage dealt "by an attack." This ruling undermines that interpretation by making APT part of the damage dealt by the attack, shattering the argument against ACM applying the default crit.

It still only deals the first card face up, though.

Good thing they are keeping a tight rein on Fire-Control Teams. Those guys were all over my meta.

13 hours ago, Ardaedhel said:

There's a pretty detailed discussion here in which @Silver Crane , ironically, details exactly why the APT/FCT ruling applies here . He's arguing against it, but hangs the entire argument on the interpretation that special crits are not part of the damage dealt "by an attack." This ruling undermines that interpretation by making APT part of the damage dealt by the attack, shattering the argument against ACM applying the default crit.

It still only deals the first card face up, though.

It's unfortunate they ruled it this way, but it is what it is.

So if we agree that ACM deals damage as "part of the attack," then what about ACM + FTC + XX-9 combo. Can damage dealt by ACM count for the first 2 damage?

In short:

Effed if I know.

1 hour ago, unclean2150 said:

So if we agree that ACM deals damage as "part of the attack," then what about ACM + FTC + XX-9 combo. Can damage dealt by ACM count for the first 2 damage?

It follows from this ruling, yes.

Until and unless it's reversed. >.>

That's actually kinda cool.

I now have to try that build. VSD - 1 w/ Vader as the Admiral?

6 minutes ago, shmitty said:

That's actually kinda cool.

I now have to try that build. VSD - 1 w/ Vader as the Admiral?

That or Screed. Only way I can imagine building for that particular combo.

The MC30 could take the upgrades for it, but then you're looking at a 42% chance that the 12 points you spent on the combo do nothing at all. Which is why FCT is the crap that crap craps.

2 minutes ago, Ardaedhel said:

That or Screed. Only way I can imagine building for that particular combo.

The MC30 could take the upgrades for it, but then you're looking at a 42% chance that the 12 points you spent on the combo do nothing at all. Which is why FCT is the crap that crap craps.

Fire Control Teams are weird. It's the kind of upgrade that may lead to some ridiculous combo down the road, but now it is pretty niche.\

If there is ever another Red Dice/Turbolaser crit beyond XX9s, they may suddenly become pretty interesting.

Even when I see it is too limited I am happy enough about that upgrade for its cost. I mean, now my ACM based fleet has something to do against enemy precision strike.

Not to hijack this thread, but I'm curious as to the FAQ's interpretation of FCTs with APTs. Is the FAQ's ruling logical or just an arbitrary nerf?

Logical under a single assumption (any damage cards are damage cards). Which was counter-intuitive to all other advice we'd ever gotten on the subject, so it feels like an arbitrary Nerf - or rather , a singular ruling in which no potential conflicts of contexts were explored.

Oh.

Well, that's disappointing.

44 minutes ago, Mikael Hasselstein said:

Oh.

Well, that's disappointing.

And Worm-Can-Threatening.

Actually I found the FAQ pretty logical (from a rules point of view).

Yes, it "nerfed" APT and XX9 (the last one already was by Mr. Gernes I think) what screwed people but at then end, it still work with ACM, OP, ICB, MS1, NK7.

APT has enough love and I think this "nerf" won't affect it. On the other hand it maybe helps the other critical upgrades. IMHO, ICB are pretty interesting now: cheaper, possible extra damage and now is able to deal faceup damage cards. MS1 is not too bad as the cheapest one. OP and NK7 would be great too but their problem is the cost.

For me the winners are ACM (was not loosing interest recently?) and ICB (which was increasing its use but moderately) so happy enough about a 2pt upgrade. OE still being better but for non black ships FCT are good. ISD-II and LMC80 see the table. Maybe VSD-II will do in the future. There is GT but it is a expensive upgrade for expensive ships. I see FCT as an interesting option despite the FAQ.

Soooo Hammerhead+FCT+ACM+Dodonna spam?