You know, all these years this has bothered me and it's time to make my voice heard.

If Kotei were a German word, it would rhyme with "bow-tie".

But it's not, it's Japanese.

https://translate.google.com/#ja/en/kotei

(Follow the link, then hit that Listen icon.)

In the correct pronunciation the second syllable rhymes with "hey".

If this information is unwelcome, please refrain from hating me.

... You've heard people say it ko-tye? Weird.

47 minutes ago, Shiba Gunichi said:

... You've heard people say it ko-tye? Weird.

A lot, yeah. Steve Horvath for instance.

The worst butchering I ever heard was a Mantis player pronounce Yoritomo as "Your-it-a-mo".

I heard the second syllable being pronounced like "tie" all the time back in the day. Kyuden as "kai-den", "Kage" as "cage", etc.

Comes with playing the game, I fear.

Kage as "cage" is funny

I can share "A-ko-do" as "ey-cow-doh", but then again, the japanese "a" does not come easily to most native english speaker that are used to their pronounciationAS.

ko-te-i

a-ko-do

ky-u-den

ka-gue (altough usually ka-je or the english cage )

yo-ri-to-mo (actually yo-ri-tó-mo because the ri not being written as rí in the card)

in spanish

Assuming it uses the Japanese language conventions, the vowels are as follows:

A = "ah"

E = "eh"

I = "ee"

O = "oh"

U = "oo"

So "Koh-teh-ee"

Ko tay

I've always devoiced the u in Yasuki, so it sounds more like Yas-key instead of Ya-SOO-key or Ya-SUH-key. I think it sounds much nicer that way, and it has a precedent in Japanese (like the name Yusuke sounding like Yoos-kay).

"Ai" in romaji (Japanese translated into roman characters) makes the "ie" sound as in "tie"

But with Kotei it's "ei" which makes an "eh-ee" sound.

So, as others have said "Ko-teh-ee"

But that's just phonetically correct, but since when has that stopped us from ever pronouncing things different in English (po-ta-to, po-tah-to).

7 minutes ago, SonofScarlet said:

"Ai" in romaji (Japanese translated into roman characters) makes the "ie" sound as in "tie"

But with Kotei it's "ei" which makes an "eh-ee" sound.

So, as others have said "Ko-teh-ee"

But that's just phonetically correct, but since when has that stopped us from ever pronouncing things different in English (po-ta-to, po-tah-to).

That's a good point. Loan words can take on other pronunciations in other languages. For instance, if I'm speaking Japanese or discussing something in a Japanese context, I'd pronounce the word "samurai" as "sah-moo-rah-ee". If I'm discussing something in an American context, I'm more likely to say, "sa-moo-rye" (with a short 'a').

That being said, "kotei" should probably be pronounced "koh-teh-ee", as the company was already using it in a localized context, and thus their pronunciation should be the official localized pronunciation.

So I've always assumed "kotei" came from 皇帝 ("emperor") and thus the the "o" is actually elongated like the "do" of bushido (or for that matter, both o's in Tokyo.) This is (basically) equivalent to how the "i" on the end if "te" sort of elongates the "e" sound.

So while in Japanese the word has four moras, the English pronunciation in two syllables (koh-tay) is a decent equivalent for native English speakers. But a Japanese speaker would see the word as four "sounds" (ko-u-te-i, again assuming it's supposed to be "emperor/皇帝") that for practical purposes might sound like "ko-o-te-e."

But someone more knowledgeable about Japanese phonetic discourse might correct me on the above points (I'm not really sure if the final "i" is elongating the "e" or if it's doing something slightly different, though I remember being taught like a decade and a half ago that's how "i" after "e" worked in Japanese and never questioned it until I starting writing this post today.)

tl;dr Koh-tay, basically?

The one that's always confused me, but which I'll apparently not have to deal with for a few years of the new game at least, is why everyone I've ever spoken to about the Spider pronounces Daigotsu as though it rhymes with Matsu, when that O and that A vowel are clearly different.

3 minutes ago, Builder2 said:

The one that's always confused me, but which I'll apparently not have to deal with for a few years of the new game at least, is why everyone I've ever spoken to about the Spider pronounces Daigotsu as though it rhymes with Matsu, when that O and that A vowel are clearly different.

Wow you're right. I never noticed.

In other news, since FFG is working with Japanese artists now ... can they please help with proofreading text on cards?

I pronounced "Hida" as "Hyda" for years . The other uses of "I" never tripped me up - "toe-too-ree, ee-saa-waa, mee-roo-moe-toe", etc, but for some reason Hida always threw me. I will shamefacedly admit that I still pronounce it that way sometimes, even though I know better!

11 minutes ago, Builder2 said:

The one that's always confused me, but which I'll apparently not have to deal with for a few years of the new game at least, is why everyone I've ever spoken to about the Spider pronounces Daigotsu as though it rhymes with Matsu, when that O and that A vowel are clearly different.

To be fair, English spelling rules are so much all over the place that you could probably find a spelling example that would justify pronouncing "o" as an "a." (Not that I'm condoning such practices.)

Aka: Ghoti, pronounced "fish".

Gh as in enough
O as in women
Ti as in emotion

2 hours ago, Suzume Tomonori said:

To be fair, English spelling rules are so much all over the place that you could probably find a spelling example that would justify pronouncing "o" as an "a." (Not that I'm condoning such practices.)

Yeah, English is crazy. Three languages stacked on top of each other, wearing a trench coat.

A helpful guide which I think someone pointed out; Japanese vowels can safely be read as Spanish vowels.

10 hours ago, Suzume Tomonori said:

So while in Japanese the word has four moras, the English pronunciation in two syllables (koh-tay) is a decent equivalent for native English speakers. But a Japanese speaker would see the word as four "sounds" (ko-u-te-i, again assuming it's supposed to be "emperor/皇帝") that for practical purposes might sound like "ko-o-te-e."

?

I've been doing L5R for approximately forever, and I'm not having any luck thinking of a single time I heard sometime pronounce "Kotei" with three syllables (or four). I'm not disputing anyone's dissection of what the proper Japanese pronunciation of the word is (and my RPG books are all packed up in anticipation of moving, so I can't look up the 'official' Rokugani pronunciation guide), but I don't see that pronunciation getting much traction.

Ko-tay

important reminder: rokugan is not japan. its dumb americans making a mishmash magical samurai game. arguably, bad pronunciations are thematically appropriate!

43 minutes ago, Daramere said:

I've been doing L5R for approximately forever, and I'm not having any luck thinking of a single time I heard sometime pronounce "Kotei" with three syllables (or four). I'm not disputing anyone's dissection of what the proper Japanese pronunciation of the word is (and my RPG books are all packed up in anticipation of moving, so I can't look up the 'official' Rokugani pronunciation guide), but I don't see that pronunciation getting much traction.

Ko-tay

You're misunderstanding a little. Kotei has four morae in Japanese, but it's still two syllables. The two vowel sounds are just held longer.

Western ears aren't accustomed to differentiating vowel length in any case, so even if you heard the correct Japanese pronunciation, it would likely still sound like ko-tay to you.

59 minutes ago, Daramere said:

I've been doing L5R for approximately forever, and I'm not having any luck thinking of a single time I heard sometime pronounce "Kotei" with three syllables (or four). I'm not disputing anyone's dissection of what the proper Japanese pronunciation of the word is (and my RPG books are all packed up in anticipation of moving, so I can't look up the 'official' Rokugani pronunciation guide), but I don't see that pronunciation getting much traction.

Ko-tay

Morae, not syllables. It's essentially 2 syllables, but each is heavy (assuming you agree the first symbol is romanized as kou). Japanese has pure central cardinal vowels; English diphthongizes them. It's hard to pronounce a pure /o/ without making it [oU]. Similarly with /e/ being realized as [eI]. So ironically, don't try to pronounce it as a Japanese word. Just regular canonical English "long" o and e.

I find it irksome that they "fixed" Hoturi but not Toturi. Since tu is not a syllable in japanese.