1 hour ago, Tetsuro said:

There was also a big push by some higher ups to mostly destroy the Phoenix and Unicorn Clans and somehow mesh them together into a totally different clan, but that was so bizarre many of us pushed back hard enough that they opted against it in the end.

...Wut?

@Tetsuro , you are making me very happy that ffg bought l5r. It sounds like the way higher ups had no idea what they were doing with the property.

I would be ok with playing the MCA at this point, mostly because I hope the Mantis clan would be members of it.

1 hour ago, Tetsuro said:

There was also a big push by some higher ups to mostly destroy the Phoenix and Unicorn Clans and somehow mesh them together into a totally different clan, but that was so bizarre many of us pushed back hard enough that they opted against it in the end.

Pegasus Clan to try and get the My Little Pony fans into the game?

Wasn't that the Alliances thing that was talked about on these boards before?

Three three-clan factions or something like that?
So not that the clans didn't exist, but you'd play all of them out of only three strongholds plus clan sensei.

Honestly I'm glad that didn't come to fruition (it was an idea that scared me honestly).

1 hour ago, Tetsuro said:

There was also a big push by some higher ups to mostly destroy the Phoenix and Unicorn Clans and somehow mesh them together into a totally different clan, but that was so bizarre many of us pushed back hard enough that they opted against it in the end.

If I'm remembering correctly, that had something to do with the Onyx "Post-Apocalyptic Setting" idea, right? Like how most of the (surviving) clans followed Toturi in KYD?

4 hours ago, Tetsuro said:

In fact, we (DT and Story Team, as well) fought to include the Other Family Sensei so that Mantis players would still be able to play some aspects of their clans and represent them. Initially they weren't planned to be there at all.

Well, thank you for trying to do some good, and I'm sorry if lumped several factions together into the faceless entity that is AEG. However, the fact that there even needed to be a fight to toss us that small of a bone would seem to just prove that either someone had it in for Mantis, or else they just had no sense of how cutting out an entire faction out of the blue could potentially alienate fans of that faction. I guess I more or less assumed it was the former than the latter. Then again, if it's upper management making the call, I guess I shouldn't be too surprised if they're incredibly out-of-touch...

>_>

(Not going to say which large companies I've worked for, but I know from experience that it would explain a lot...)

I still recall, when the first "Mantis are dead" announcement came out...

Some context, for the new people: I really hated the Mantis Clan's portrayal in the fiction. Hated it. They were teflon-coated as far as meaningful consequences went, and I was somewhat infamous for going, "could somebody hand them a loss they care about?"

So naturally, when I heard the Clan was being removed... I was not happy. Because I never wanted them gone, I just wanted them to get in the grill like literally everybody else (even those useless Crane who I really WOULD just as soon never see again).

And when the Mantis playerbase were told,"well, now you get to pick your new identity?" I was not happy. Because they HAD an identity they were happy with. They'd built it over twenty years, with some of the most engagement and unity of purpose I saw out of any fanbase in the game. I actually tossed out the idea that since the Phoenix and the Dragon had been narrative messes with deeply dissatisfied fanbases, either of them would have been a better choice for, "get blown up, then decide who you want to be as you rebuild."

Hence some of the anguish Mantis fans are still feeling in this age of uncertainty... some Clans had their history inflicted upon them (Unicorn as the Kolat's primary nesting ground, the Phoenix being the Super-Friends Aquaman of Rokugan- useless paperweights nobody even bothered to consider until their one big schtick was somehow relevant, the Scorpion getting exiled so often that they might as well open a timeshare in the Burning Sands, etc.). The Mantis had, for the most part, chosen theirs.

1 minute ago, Shiba Gunichi said:

Unicorn as the Kolat's primary nesting ground

Better that than sitting idle like during the Clan Wars, I guess?

Certainly, one of the worst things to happen, more than once, in L5R was the "banning" of factions. Some was clear that were a short lived thing like Spirits. Naga was not in the same boat until they found themselves in it. And Mantis... cruel. I can undersand trying to create some drama and shaking some clans (failed dishonorable Hitomi dragon, friendly Unicorn kolats, etc) but solidly stablished factions (except Spider ) deserve better that "Hey, faction rotation!".

That Shinjo Yokatsu has been turned into a girl as well and nobody flipped out about it should tell you all you need to know about how little attention was paid to Unicorn characters in the Clan Wars arc.

4 minutes ago, Tetsuro said:

That Shinjo Yokatsu has been turned into a girl as well and nobody flipped out about it should tell you all you need to know about how little attention was paid to Unicorn characters in the Clan Wars arc.

If you mean little attention as no attention at all... yeah. Otaku Kamoko doing nothing against Fu Leng? Check (even Kachiko did more). Clan novel having nothing to do with the Clan Wars in the other novels? Check.

What will really be interesting is if they gender flipped Yoritomo...

2 minutes ago, Tetsuro said:

What will really be interesting is if they gender flipped Yoritomo...

I'm in.

8 minutes ago, Tetsuro said:

What will really be interesting is if they gender flipped Yoritomo...

Yoritomo Kumiko v2.0?

52 minutes ago, Tetsuro said:

What will really be interesting is if they gender flipped Yoritomo...

She is her twenty strongest!

1 hour ago, Tetsuro said:

What will really be interesting is if they gender flipped Yoritomo...

I do sorta feel like that's basically what Kumiko was. And since I really liked Kumiko, I'd be on board for that.

Thinking about it, I think it might be more fun to leave the faction as a minor clan alliance. I picked them originally for the underdog aspect (and loving the hell out of the Wasp). At the very least leave the Fox alone. I voted against absorbing them during the Race. They deserve to be their own thing.

2 minutes ago, PlaguedOne said:

(and loving the hell out of the Wasp).

I've noticed that, like, seven or eight out of ten times, when someone says they loved the MCA, this is what they actually mean.

I guess I'm one of the eight that loved the Mantis as the Mantis clan (The Yoritomo Family). I honestly loved the options they started to get before Onyx. Kensai but focusing on Kama's and Peasant weapons made alot of sense in the way the old l5r played. I also had a love for the Thunder element, whic as far as I can tell, originated with the Mantis Clan and not the Centipede. I also would have preferred the Fox clan over the Centipede clan as our primary shugenja, with the Yoritomo Shugenja focusing on thunder.

As long as their are some Mantis clan cards (even if as a minor clan) you can guarantee I'll be playing them.

I started with Mantis and really enjoyed playing them. I have a good feeling that as long as this new release of L5R takes off then I will be able to play Mantis again in the future. Just look at the other LCGs. They all have a good number of expansions. Just give them time and FFG will make us happy.

3 hours ago, Tetsuro said:

I've noticed that, like, seven or eight out of ten times, when someone says they loved the MCA, this is what they actually mean.

It's not that I didn't like the Mantis. Far from it. I would probably place them second just after the Wasp. I just really, really loved the Wasp.

My first encounter with the Mantis was this painting, which I now own. I started with Dragon but we had a Dragon player so I started looking for a new clan.

I came across the Mantis, a hodge-podge of minor clans all joined together and led by a grade-A badasses. From the beginning the idea of mercenaries saying, "Yeah, it's about time you all acknowledge us as your equals" is pretty cool. They got blessings from the Thunder Dragon, accumulated huge amounts of cash from their time as mercenaries and just were totally outside the traditional samurai realm. From talks with story team, they were more likely to allow a peasant the chance to prove himself.

If they don't show up, I'll be very disappointed. Prior to the Spider ascension, they had a very unique role as the only clan not originally backed by a Kami, that clawed their way to the top and always felt like they had something to prove.

Mantis Clan for life!

4 hours ago, ricefrisbeetreats said:

Prior to the Spider ascension, they had a very unique role as the only clan not originally backed by a Kami...

And even after the Spider ascension.

3 hours ago, Sparks Duh said:

And even after the Spider ascension.

True, kinda forgot about Daigotsu's ascension.

In case anyone is interested, Dan is organizing the Mantis Clan Dinner, Gen Con 2017 .