Just now, Robin Graves said:

I would really like subtle hints about a possible return/rise of the Spider. Maybe have small spiders hidden in the artwork of places and personalities who end up becomming corrupted and forming the Spider clan.

That might end up coming with the rest of the Shadowlands or if the story line ends up being similar to how it occurred in the ccg. Not sure how many Shadowlands dudes will show up in the core set but we'll most likely see a number of references on Crab cards.

9 hours ago, Yoritomo Reiu said:

No, there is a very, very vocal group of people who hate him. But cheers for feeling the need to come into the Mantis thread to voice your dislike.

Makes more sense than bringing it up in, say, a Unicorn thread, right?

But no, what I was saying without saying is that, were the Mantis to make a comeback, it would be nice if the clan could be based on more than just one singular plot point that it could never escape from. There is (was?) a very real meme, whether through the playerbase or forced by the company idk, that the Mantis are the Yoritomo and the Yoritomo are the Mantis, all because of the actions of this one guy who, frankly, wasn't as historically significant as others that came before him.

I like the Mantis. I hope they can return in some fashion. I just think it was a real mistake to totally ignore their founder, or other significant historical people, because the shining light that was Yoritomo was so bright as to be blinding.

16 hours ago, Bayushi Tsubaki said:

...that the Mantis are the Yoritomo and the Yoritomo are the Mantis...

I never really saw this as completely true, although I do think the Yoritomo got most of the screen time. This might be why I've been pushing for a Wasp-lead MCA this time around.

15 hours ago, PlaguedOne said:

I never really saw this as completely true, although I do think the Yoritomo got most of the screen time. This might be why I've been pushing for a Wasp-lead MCA this time around.

I think the Mantis are the better ones to lead the MCA. The Tsuruchi seemed to prefer staying out of the limelight. I'd just like to see more heroes get a day in the sun. Perhaps with the new FFG overlords, we'll see them slow down the progression of time and really let some stories play out.

Honestly, despite my Dragonfly bias, I think that the Fox would be much better at leading a MCA: they are more traditional and acceptable to the rest of the Great Clans.

5 minutes ago, Tonbo Karasu said:

Honestly, despite my Dragonfly bias, I think that the Fox would be much better at leading a MCA: they are more traditional and acceptable to the rest of the Great Clans.

Plus the Fox is the first official Minor Clan after all.

1 hour ago, ricefrisbeetreats said:

I think the Mantis are the better ones to lead the MCA. The Tsuruchi seemed to prefer staying out of the limelight. I'd just like to see more heroes get a day in the sun. Perhaps with the new FFG overlords, we'll see them slow down the progression of time and really let some stories play out.

Yeah, archers generally don't like to be in the front ranks...

Maybe we can get the Tortoise clan to join this time around.

Do you really want a Clan who are technically traitors on your side?

Tortoise are my favourite out of all minor clans, past or present, but...

They basically only work because they serve the Emperor fairly directly. Being under some other Great Clan would effectively remove everything that makes them even possible. Plus, they'd be stepping a bit too much on Mantis toes with their sailors and merchants.

True, still a fun idea. There are so many amazing minor clans that exist, I am slowly starting to want a Minor Clan alliance at this point, mostly because of the vast diversity of characters and stories that could fit inside of it. I also really want to play as the Mantis Clan again, it is really starting to tear me apart. I know for the meantime, until we know one way or another, I will probably play Dragon (and if minor clans exist in the base throw them in there to).

Also while the Tortoise are technically traitors they also bring in some more of the 'historical' aspects of Japan to Rokugan. I seriously want Arquebus, and other early firearms, as potential weapons for my ashigaru. Samurai in Japan had access to them for centuries but archery and swords were still used heavily. This is mostly because of the slow reload time, and the expense of the firearms, but still. I could see the Mantis, the tortoise, hell even the scorpion utilizing them in raids. It would also allow for black powder bombs, and early cannons to be used by the crab against the Oni (Come on, that is a cool image).

6 minutes ago, Yoritomo Kazuto said:

True, still a fun idea. There are so many amazing minor clans that exist, I am slowly starting to want a Minor Clan alliance at this point, mostly because of the vast diversity of characters and stories that could fit inside of it. I also really want to play as the Mantis Clan again, it is really starting to tear me apart. I know for the meantime, until we know one way or another, I will probably play Dragon (and if minor clans exist in the base throw them in there to).

Also while the Tortoise are technically traitors they also bring in some more of the 'historical' aspects of Japan to Rokugan. I seriously want Arquebus, and other early firearms, as potential weapons for my ashigaru. Samurai in Japan had access to them for centuries but archery and swords were still used heavily. This is mostly because of the slow reload time, and the expense of the firearms, but still. I could see the Mantis, the tortoise, hell even the scorpion utilizing them in raids. It would also allow for black powder bombs, and early cannons to be used by the crab against the Oni (Come on, that is a cool image).

I too would like to see cannon and matchlocks in limited quantities. Also, for people concerned with technology creep, I would point out that firearms in historic Japan remained relatively unchanged from the Sengoku Jidai (around 1600 A.D.) to the mid 1800's, when foreign-influence started coming in again.

Well, what Minor clans are there around, and what do they do and are they suitable for an alliance -

• Centipede - Shugenja - Too closely aligned to Phoenix
• Dragonfly - Shugenja/Courtier - Too closely aligned to Dragon
• Hare - Bushi
• Falcon - Spirit hunters
• Fox - Shugenja
• Mantis - Bushi/Merchants - Not on the mainland
• Sparrow - Bushi/Storytellers
• Tortoise - Courtier/Merchants - Too tied to the emperor
• Wasp - Archers

The relevant mainland clans are actually pretty close to each other, IIRC. If the three Man Alliance were to add the Hare and Falcon, that's quite a nice combo.

Salamander. Why does everyone keep forgetting the salamander?

3 minutes ago, Myrion said:

Salamander. Why does everyone keep forgetting the salamander?

Because they're semi-apocryphal, and would be dead now even if they did exist? Along with the Bee, Crow, Firefly, Shark and Tanuki.

How did they die? I must've missed that...

Also, I know, but I think they're one of the most interesting minor clans with an amazing story hook.

1 hour ago, Tonbo Karasu said:

Do you really want a Clan who are technically traitors on your side?

Yoritomo is a traitor so...

Perhaps in the new canon the Gusai were never stripped of their name? Would people still want a Mantis Clan under the rule of the Gusai family? I know I would. They were a fun bunch of fellas.

7 minutes ago, Tetsuro said:

Perhaps in the new canon the Gusai were never stripped of their name? Would people still want a Mantis Clan under the rule of the Gusai family? I know I would. They were a fun bunch of fellas.

Since Gusai better embodied having incredible chutzpah while paying the price for it, I think that'd be awesome.

5 hours ago, Tonbo Karasu said:

• Hare - Bushi

Can I get a Usagi Yojimbo ?

5 hours ago, Tonbo Karasu said:

The relevant mainland clans are actually pretty close to each other, IIRC. If the three Man Alliance were to add the Hare and Falcon, that's quite a nice combo.

A Five Man Alliance in Legend of the Five Rings ? How dare you?!

(You're right. It would be bloody awesome.)

Gusai had a great initial story, but the character was more or less ruined for me by the way he was used in later stories.

I'd say that Kaimetsu-Uo would be a better source for a family name but unfortunately that name is just really, really weird.

1 hour ago, Coyote Walks said:

A Five Man Alliance in Legend of the Five Rings ? How dare you?!

(You're right. It would be bloody awesome.)

Real talk, I'd probably jump ship...

2 hours ago, Coyote Walks said:

Can I get a Usagi Yojimbo ?

Yes you can . The original family name is Ujina, but they have a vassal family that is called Usagi, and the first one we meet (in an early rpg module) is someone's bodyguard.

10 hours ago, Tonbo Karasu said:

Yes you can . The original family name is Ujina, but they have a vassal family that is called Usagi, and the first one we meet (in an early rpg module) is someone's bodyguard.

Other way around. The Ujina are Vassals of the Usagi.

Looking at the cards that have been previewed so far, there is one thing that stands out and makes me think the Mantis won't be back as the heads of a Minor Clan based Great Clan. Those Dragon cards are really, really green...

I would assume that if the Mantis are introduced as a full playable faction they'd end up with a sea-green or teal color.