10 minutes ago, kolixela said:

Well I will come back into this conversation at the same point I left it with AEG.

When AEG killed the Mantis Clan for Onyx I quit the game.

When FFG bought the IP I started following it again.

If FFG doesn't resurrect the Mantis in 2017/2018 I will abandon L5R.

And honestly at this point if they do something that sh*tty to the Mantis after it's rather horrible history of getting screwed I'm probably out of FFG all together. It'd prove to me they have as little concern for the fanbase as certain members of AEG did over the years.

This kind of response just seems so silly to me. Yes, the faction you like is probably gone. It happens. If you don't like it, then you can leave, but if the only reason you were playing was because of one particular faction, then I think you might not have really liked the game in the first place. If Mantis won't be added into the game, it will because FFG decided that it would hurt the game overall. Not because they hate the Mantis clan. Even if Mantis do get added in later, it would mean that other factions wouldn't be able to be added in, so it seems kinda childish to basically throw a tantrum over this. If you want to go, go, but I won't shed a tear over it.

I apologize if I seem overly harsh here, but I just get so annoyed seeing this over and over again, as if the Mantis/Shadowlands are the only factions to have ever been cut from the game.

Can I just say, I feel like the only person in the world who genuinely disliked Yoritomo.

Kaimetsu-Uo was a legit badass who forged his way in a world he didn't belong in, all the way up to becoming a Fortune. Boss.
Gusai was a legit badass who showed up an Emperor to his face, and it cost him his life to do it.
Yoritomo was a badass because the ST said so and no other reason. When he held the Empire at ransom at their weakest point, he never paid for it. The Thunder Dragon became his best bud for... reasons? He's the Daigotsu of the "good guys" - All the power, and yet so so boring! (Daigotsu, being a more powerful, significantly less interesting, version of Iuchiban).

Maybe that's just me though.

2 minutes ago, Bayushi Tsubaki said:

Can I just say, I feel like the only person in the world who genuinely disliked Yoritomo.

Kaimetsu-Uo was a legit badass who forged his way in a world he didn't belong in, all the way up to becoming a Fortune. Boss.
Gusai was a legit badass who showed up an Emperor to his face, and it cost him his life to do it.
Yoritomo was a badass because the ST said so and no other reason. When he held the Empire at ransom at their weakest point, he never paid for it. The Thunder Dragon became his best bud for... reasons? He's the Daigotsu of the "good guys" - All the power, and yet so so boring! (Daigotsu, being a more powerful, significantly less interesting, version of Iuchiban).

Maybe that's just me though.

You Are Not Alone.

8 minutes ago, Bayushi Tsubaki said:

Can I just say, I feel like the only person in the world who genuinely disliked Yoritomo.

Kaimetsu-Uo was a legit badass who forged his way in a world he didn't belong in, all the way up to becoming a Fortune. Boss.
Gusai was a legit badass who showed up an Emperor to his face, and it cost him his life to do it.
Yoritomo was a badass because the ST said so and no other reason. When he held the Empire at ransom at their weakest point, he never paid for it. The Thunder Dragon became his best bud for... reasons? He's the Daigotsu of the "good guys" - All the power, and yet so so boring! (Daigotsu, being a more powerful, significantly less interesting, version of Iuchiban).

Maybe that's just me though.

Not alone.

1 hour ago, kolixela said:

And honestly at this point if they do something that sh*tty to the Mantis after it's rather horrible history of getting screwed I'm probably out of FFG all together. It'd prove to me they have as little concern for the fanbase as certain members of AEG did over the years.

It's their storyland, friend. You just play in it. If they don't want to bring the Mantis back, that's their decision, and it's certainly one they didn't make pondering if it would upset you personally.

As we don't know either way, seems a bit early for dramatic slammed-door announcements, but whatever. But please don't make the mistake that your particular extremely tiny fraction of the fanbase is the only fanbase that should matter, or that their development/story decisions are made because they have "little concern" for your corner of the game.

1 hour ago, Bayushi Tsubaki said:

Can I just say, I feel like the only person in the world who genuinely disliked Yoritomo.

No, there is a very, very vocal group of people who hate him. But cheers for feeling the need to come into the Mantis thread to voice your dislike.

I will follow Ryosei wherever she leads.

2 hours ago, fyrm said:

This kind of response just seems so silly to me. Yes, the faction you like is probably gone. It happens. If you don't like it, then you can leave, but if the only reason you were playing was because of one particular faction, then I think you might not have really liked the game in the first place. If Mantis won't be added into the game, it will because FFG decided that it would hurt the game overall. Not because they hate the Mantis clan. Even if Mantis do get added in later, it would mean that other factions wouldn't be able to be added in, so it seems kinda childish to basically throw a tantrum over this. If you want to go, go, but I won't shed a tear over it.

I apologize if I seem overly harsh here, but I just get so annoyed seeing this over and over again, as if the Mantis/Shadowlands are the only factions to have ever been cut from the game.

I can understand why you might feel that way, but maybe I can put the other side into some perspective for you.

There are a lot of decent card games around, and I expect more to keep on coming. While I am super excited for L5R and have been waiting with eager anticipation ever since FFG bought it (like almost everyone on this forum), there is nothing mechanically about the game that has my loyalty. I mean I like the double decks and the province system, but as far as cool card games on the market go, I'm spoiled for choice. What I love about L5R as a property and what I'm super stoked on being a part of is the ongoing story and legacy, and a huge part of that is clan loyalty. You can change a lot about how the game works and I'd still be fully on board, but if you lose the importance of your personal clan the game is dead to me.

So really there isn't anything that is more important to me than being a Mantis, just like either of my friends who will live and die as a Crane or a Unicorn respectively. Wearing your clan's colours and rooting for them in the ongoing story is L5R to me. Or at least, the part that makes it good and distinguishes it from every other CCG or LCG. At the end of the day, I'm not an L5R player, I'm a Mantis player. I just don't really care that much about the storyline of any of the other clans. And I think that huge personal investment in your faction is the greatest strength of L5R.

@ squirrelfox, I can understand that 100%, if you changed the word Mantis with Phoenix it would be gut wrenching for me... not sure how I could play otherwise. I was a huge fan of the Wasp clan and I do think Mantis will come back... hopefully it wont take to long for your sake.

10 minutes ago, squirrelfox said:

I can understand why you might feel that way, but maybe I can put the other side into some perspective for you.

There are a lot of decent card games around, and I expect more to keep on coming. While I am super excited for L5R and have been waiting with eager anticipation ever since FFG bought it (like almost everyone on this forum), there is nothing mechanically about the game that has my loyalty. I mean I like the double decks and the province system, but as far as cool card games on the market go, I'm spoiled for choice. What I love about L5R as a property and what I'm super stoked on being a part of is the ongoing story and legacy, and a huge part of that is clan loyalty. You can change a lot about how the game works and I'd still be fully on board, but if you lose the importance of your personal clan the game is dead to me.

So really there isn't anything that is more important to me than being a Mantis, just like either of my friends who will live and die as a Crane or a Unicorn respectively. Wearing your clan's colours and rooting for them in the ongoing story is L5R to me. Or at least, the part that makes it good and distinguishes it from every other CCG or LCG. At the end of the day, I'm not an L5R player, I'm a Mantis player. I just don't really care that much about the storyline of any of the other clans. And I think that huge personal investment in your faction is the greatest strength of L5R.

I can understand that, but personally, whether there's a Mantis clan or not, I'll see to it that they are not forgotten!

We've already seen one guy holding a bow, and so long as there is even one archer in the game, Tsuruchi's legacy will not be forgotten!

...before it ever happened.

...in an alternate timeline.

...hm...this might be trickier than I thought...

13 minutes ago, squirrelfox said:

So really there isn't anything that is more important to me than being a Mantis, just like either of my friends who will live and die as a Crane or a Unicorn respectively. Wearing your clan's colours and rooting for them in the ongoing story is L5R to me. Or at least, the part that makes it good and distinguishes it from every other CCG or LCG. At the end of the day, I'm not an L5R player, I'm a Mantis player. I just don't really care that much about the storyline of any of the other clans. And I think that huge personal investment in your faction is the greatest strength of L5R.

This.

I've played a lot of games and the one thing that kept me coming back was the clan loyalty. Yeah, some people had a side clan they built a deck for, but for the most part, people picked a clan and that's what they stuck with through the good and bad. People dressed as their clan members, tattooed their clan mons on their chest, and a number of other things that I just don't see in any other game. Legend of the Five Rings is better for it. You immediately have a sense of camaraderie with people who are in your clan.

So yeah, I'm going to be bummed if I don't see any hint of the Mantis down the road. I've watched people quit because they couldn't play Naga, Ratling, etc. and maybe they won't come back because they're missing here as well. Saying, "Get over it. You're not in the game anymore" marginalizes a player base that was very involved in the game.

I understand clan loyalty. I understand the desire to stick with your clan, through thick and thin. But sometimes reality doesn't go your way, and you need to make a choice. There are tons of factions in L5R, all of them great in their own ways, to the people that they appeal to, and there is no reasonable way you could include them all. That doesn't mean that those who aren't included should just sit there and complain.

If you are just playing this game as "Legend of the Mantis Clan", then I feel sorry for you, because there is so much more to Rokugan. I agree, it is sad to see that you're side is gone, but maybe that just means you should look closer, and find a new family. Was the legacy of the Mantis not to make their own fate? Saying that your side is the only one that matters, and all the others could be gone in an instant and you wouldn't bat an eye is just selfish. And I don't believe that is what you are intending to express, but it is certainly the message I am getting from a lot of these responses.

Am I sorry to see the Mantis gone, at least for now but maybe forever? Yes. People liked them, and I hope they at least get some representation. But I can't understand the desire to just storm off when there is so much more of this beautiful world to explore and create together.

17 minutes ago, ricefrisbeetreats said:

This.

I've played a lot of games and the one thing that kept me coming back was the clan loyalty. Yeah, some people had a side clan they built a deck for, but for the most part, people picked a clan and that's what they stuck with through the good and bad. People dressed as their clan members, tattooed their clan mons on their chest, and a number of other things that I just don't see in any other game. Legend of the Five Rings is better for it. You immediately have a sense of camaraderie with people who are in your clan.

So yeah, I'm going to be bummed if I don't see any hint of the Mantis down the road. I've watched people quit because they couldn't play Naga, Ratling, etc. and maybe they won't come back because they're missing here as well. Saying, "Get over it. You're not in the game anymore" marginalizes a player base that was very involved in the game.

I wouldn't be surprised if we had a few neutral personalities in the core set that give us a hint of what's to come. We may even get more hints once they start announcing the first deluxe expansion and/or the chapter packs.

3 hours ago, kolixela said:

And honestly at this point if they do something that sh*tty to the Mantis after it's rather horrible history of getting screwed I'm probably out of FFG all together. It'd prove to me they have as little concern for the fanbase as certain members of AEG did over the years.

If FFG think that they can put Mantis in without breaking "balance" (let's not enter into definitions at this point) of the game, they will do so no mater if you like the idea or not. A good product is in odds with the fanbase per se. Did Naga players enjoy being off for many editions? What about Monks? Even that loyal Spirits player? (wtf indeed) Ratlings? Toturi's Army/Monkey? We can only hope for FFG offering a good release base and from there... we (FFG and players) will see? If any factions are added, I do not want "faction of the cycle" style stuff. And no doppelgangers.

I wish everybody could get their faction back (yeah, even the Spirits guy) but that is not feasible (outside of non-tournament valid Strongholds?).

Your money being yours, if you do not feel like investing money in the game because it lacks your favourite faction, I do think it is a bit of overreaction (if you like the mechanics) but if that happens, good luck finding something worth your time and money.

4 minutes ago, Wintersong said:

If FFG think that they can put Mantis in without breaking "balance" (let's not enter into definitions at this point) of the game, they will do so no mater if you like the idea or not.

That's kind of my feeling on the whole thing, and why (even as a diehard Mantis player) I feel threads like this are largely unnecessary. Either FFG already has plans to include the Mantis in a deluxe box or they've decided the game is better off without them. Obviously I am hoping for the former, but moaning about it is counter productive. The decision has already been made either way.

4 minutes ago, squirrelfox said:

That's kind of my feeling on the whole thing, and why (even as a diehard Mantis player) I feel threads like this are largely unnecessary. Either FFG already has plans to include the Mantis in a deluxe box or they've decided the game is better off without them. Obviously I am hoping for the former, but moaning about it is counter productive. The decision has already been made either way.

Working in business, I will say that the squeaky wheel gets the grease. If there's enough demand for it, they'll find a way to work it in.

4 hours ago, Bayushi Tsubaki said:

Can I just say, I feel like the only person in the world who genuinely disliked Yoritomo.

And I am Twenty-One.

4 hours ago, Bayushi Tsubaki said:

Kaimetsu-Uo was a legit badass who forged his way in a world he didn't belong in, all the way up to becoming a Fortune. Boss.
Gusai was a legit badass who showed up an Emperor to his face, and it cost him his life to do it.
Yoritomo was a badass because the ST said so and no other reason. When he held the Empire at ransom at their weakest point, he never paid for it. The Thunder Dragon became his best bud for... reasons? He's the Daigotsu of the "good guys" - All the power, and yet so so boring! (Daigotsu, being a more powerful, significantly less interesting, version of Iuchiban).

Maybe that's just me though.

It's not just you. And the Daigotsu comparison is apt, because he, like Daigotsu, so totally influenced his clan's portrayal that even after he friggin' died and ascended to supernatural divinity, they never really moved past him.

Now, with that said... recall that in the era the game is being set, during AEG's run, the Mantis had no Family name. Given how clunky (and strange) that ended up being when viewed across the setting's history, if FFG gives us the Mantis, I'd be very curious to see if Yoritomo even shows up, or if just his name does as the family name of a new character. Or they'll go by Gusai...

I say as a former Mantis clan player, I will let our glory die in peace, and leave the new story up to the Great Clans.

I want a balanced and fun game first and foremost. 7 clans is more than enough variety, and I completely want Minor clans, Shadowlands, Ronin, etc, all as neutral cards that can sway the overall story some, but I honestly just want them to stick to the 7 clans as being the factions to play as.

55 minutes ago, ricefrisbeetreats said:

Working in business, I will say that the squeaky wheel gets the grease. If there's enough demand for it, they'll find a way to work it in.

More Squeak, Less Whine.

10 minutes ago, Shiba Gunichi said:

And I am Twenty-One.

It's not just you. And the Daigotsu comparison is apt, because he, like Daigotsu, so totally influenced his clan's portrayal that even after he friggin' died and ascended to supernatural divinity, they never really moved past him.

Now, with that said... recall that in the era the game is being set, during AEG's run, the Mantis had no Family name. Given how clunky (and strange) that ended up being when viewed across the setting's history, if FFG gives us the Mantis, I'd be very curious to see if Yoritomo even shows up, or if just his name does as the family name of a new character. Or they'll go by Gusai...

This was due to the old Story Team. Many of us wanted more time spent on the Tsuruchi and Kitsune. Even WC5 wouldn't let us get away from the Big Y (he was snoring down the hall).

I'm not making any assumptions about what this ST will do. Yoritomo may or may not exist. Maybe he came a generation before and Kumiko is Champion now.

What I do know is there was a Tsunami that hit the Crane coast (Onyx much?), and that tsunami is probably a big deal for the Mantis minor clan.

I kind of have an identity crisis, honestly. Not sure what clan I'll go for now. Maybe Scorpion? I'd imagine it'd take a good while for me to actually start identifying as one the same way I identified as a Mantis for the longest time.

Even then, I wouldn't blame FFG for not adding a Mantis faction. There are very valid reasons not to. I'd still like to at least see them see some spotlight as a minor clan, though.

1 hour ago, Coyote Walks said:

What I do know is there was a Tsunami that hit the Crane coast (Onyx much?), and that tsunami is probably a big deal for the Mantis minor clan.

Or it could be what ends up forcing the Crane to hire the Mantis to defend them as they try to recover from the damage.

21 minutes ago, ricefrisbeetreats said:

Or it could be what ends up forcing the Crane to hire the Mantis to defend them as they try to recover from the damage.

Assuming a similar map, the Islands of Silk and Spice where the Mantis live would very likely be directly in the path of said tsunami.

14 minutes ago, Kakita Shiro said:

Assuming a similar map, the Islands of Silk and Spice where the Mantis live would very likely be directly in the path of said tsunami.

Hey, it's an all new story. They can do whatever they want.

On ‎22‎/‎04‎/‎2017 at 2:21 AM, Nickciufi said:

Come with me if you want to live.

But we are undead!

4 hours ago, Kubernes said:

I wouldn't be surprised if we had a few neutral personalities in the core set that give us a hint of what's to come. We may even get more hints once they start announcing the first deluxe expansion and/or the chapter packs.

I would really like subtle hints about a possible return/rise of the Spider. Maybe have small spiders hidden in the artwork of places and personalities who end up becomming corrupted and forming the Spider clan.