The game entirely looks great. But one detail sounded weird to me. In the "Showcase" page, one card is named "Mori Kuroi", probably a Phoenix Province Card. The problem is, the words are inverse. It means "Black Forest" in Japanese, or should, because in Japanese as in English, the adjective comes first. So, it should probably be "Kuroi (Black as adjective) Mori (Forest)".

Just a little detail that maybe can have passed without notice.

I know. That is Rokugan, not Japan. But I think that should be brought to light.

18 minutes ago, Isawa Hayashi said:

I know. That is Rokugan, not Japan.

If there's one thing I hope gets left behind, in the CCG where it belongs, it's this axiom. You can't just excuse anything and everything because it's a fictional setting. The phonemes used in names and places are intentionally based on Japanese. There should either be a native or otherwise fluent speaker proofing these things, or they should limit the use of foreign words to character names only. I'll take a male Daigotsu Misaki ("Beautiful Blossom") over a Shiro no Yojin ("Vigilance of Castle") ny day.

If a castle were to be named Taru sano Min Okai, the Castle of the Swift Sword, I would nod and let it pass. Yeah, homophones will happen, but it would be clear that the intent is to have a language that is phonetically modeled on Japanese, without actually being Japanese.

When the Castle of the Swift Sword is named Shiro sano Ken Hayai, it tells me somebody had a Japanese dictionary and no &#@$#@! clue how to use it. And that bugs me.

FFG has historically butchered Japanese names and words if the Jinteki cards from Netrunner are an indicator.

Remember back in the beginning when all of the Oni and Ancestors had their names backward? Silly native enlgish-spaeking translatoinors...

(that last bit's just for you, Kinzen)

8 minutes ago, Kinzen said:

If a castle were to be named Taru sano Min Okai, the Castle of the Swift Sword, I would nod and let it pass. Yeah, homophones will happen, but it would be clear that the intent is to have a language that is phonetically modeled on Japanese, without actually being Japanese.

When the Castle of the Swift Sword is named Shiro sano Ken Hayai, it tells me somebody had a Japanese dictionary and no &#@$#@! clue how to use it. And that bugs me.

This isn't L5R related, but in certain game I play, there is a setting shard for modern Tokyo. It includes factions named "Sama", "Senpai" and "No mikoto". Basic idea is that these factions are definied by their relationship to a founder figure (one deifies them, one considers them to nothing more than a wise common man, and one portrays them as a source of all wisdom).

I have been told that there can't be anything wrong with it, because person who wrote is (a foreigner) living in Tokyo, so automatically, it must be correct, because person living in Japan can't make mistakes about japanese language (which they don't speak, by the way).

7 minutes ago, WHW said:

This isn't L5R related, but in certain game I play, there is a setting shard for modern Tokyo. It includes factions named "Sama", "Senpai" and "No mikoto". Basic idea is that these factions are definied by their relationship to a founder figure (one deifies them, one considers them to nothing more than a wise common man, and one portrays them as a source of all wisdom).

I have been told that there can't be anything wrong with it, because person who wrote is (a foreigner) living in Tokyo, so automatically, it must be correct, because person living in Japan can't make mistakes about japanese language (which they don't speak, by the way).

Owwwwww. Yeesh. That's... that's pretty tough to read, let alone play. You poor thing, here, have an internet sympathy hug. Yikes.

19 minutes ago, Kinzen said:

If a castle were to be named Taru sano Min Okai, the Castle of the Swift Sword, I would nod and let it pass. Yeah, homophones will happen, but it would be clear that the intent is to have a language that is phonetically modeled on Japanese, without actually being Japanese.

When the Castle of the Swift Sword is named Shiro sano Ken Hayai, it tells me somebody had a Japanese dictionary and no &#@$#@! clue how to use it. And that bugs me.

I don't think you need to worry about someone with a Japanese dictionary. Shinjo Altansarnai wouldn't be found there (although that is a unicorn clan person, so leeway could be given that it may be a more foreign name).

9 minutes ago, Rinder5 said:

I don't think you need to worry about someone with a Japanese dictionary. Shinjo Altansarnai wouldn't be found there (although that is a unicorn clan person, so leeway could be given that it may be a more foreign name).

There's a long history of Unicorn characters having Chinese or Mongolian names. Altansarnai fits right in with that tradition.

Heck, in the RPG there's even a Disadvantage you can take for having a gaijin name. Unicorn characters get extra points for taking it, as a way of encouraging that flavor in that clan.

The Mongolian influence didn't really start until the Moto returned, though - or am I remembering that incorrectly? I know the Unicorn had "less Rokugani" names from the outset, but there was a world of difference between Hanari, Yokatsu, Kamoko, Tadaji, etc. to the great Chagatai, Shem-Zhe, Lixue, Kadu-Kai, Vordu names of the post-Moto return.

They've always had more gaijin-ish names, but Altansarnai might mean that they're starting off with the more "post-Moto" names. Which would be neat.

There are a lot of mistakes in the use of Japanese words, I always cringed about Tetsu Kama for example, since it should clearly have been Tetsu Yama, but that spelling error was kept around for years by AEG for the mountoin in the Dragon lands that had nothing to do with the sickle-like weapon / framing tool.

11 minutes ago, Drudenfusz said:

There are a lot of mistakes in the use of Japanese words, I always cringed about Tetsu Kama for example, since it should clearly have been Tetsu Yama, but that spelling error was kept around for years by AEG for the mountoin in the Dragon lands that had nothing to do with the sickle-like weapon / framing tool.

Maybe it was a volcanic mountain? Kama could also be furnace or kiln . . .

Or maybe a lot of toads live there.

</fun with homophones>

1 minute ago, Kinzen said:

Maybe it was a volcanic mountain? Kama could also be furnace or kiln . . .

Or maybe a lot of toads live there.

</fun with homophones>

That would be funny, but the translations given by AEG always called it just Iron Mountain.

1 hour ago, Rinder5 said:

I don't think you need to worry about someone with a Japanese dictionary. Shinjo Altansarnai wouldn't be found there (although that is a unicorn clan person, so leeway could be given that it may be a more foreign name).

Golden Rose in Mongolian, it seems.

Well, they already missed the oportunity to rename Toturi Totsuri, or Totori, or something. The fixed Hoturi, however.

1 hour ago, Wintersong said:

Golden Rose in Mongolian, it seems.

I was going to talk about this. It sounded very "Arabian-esque" to me, and not Mongolian. So, I was thinking if the Moto (or anyother people the Ki-Rin found in their travels) were gonna look more Arabian then Mongolian. Well, the "Unicorn" side of the Burning Sands look Mongolian yet. As a Phoenix player, that doesn't even care. But well...

And well, my idea was make the desing/AMA team knowing about this. If they are making a honest mistake, ok. But I think it's my duty as a fan to alert about things that they might not know about. Even they should to know.

3 hours ago, Builder2 said:

The phonemes used in names and places are intentionally based on Japanese.

I think you mean phonotactics. The phonemes found in Japanese are found in thousands of languages throughout the world.

1 minute ago, Network57 said:

I think you mean phonotactics. The phonemes found in Japanese are found in thousands of languages throughout the world.

To be fair, "phonotactics" is a pretty obscure term to know. :-)

I saw the weird "Mori Kuroi" name too, but Rokugan already has a lot of questionable/out-right wrong Japanese established in the setting, and if we wanted to point out and fix it all we'd be here all day (but I'll add that the reboot would have been a really good chance for FFG to fix it all!)

The capital of the empire is "Dad's House" for the Fortunes' sake.

On 4/22/2017 at 5:35 AM, Kinzen said:

There's a long history of Unicorn characters having Chinese or Mongolian names. Altansarnai fits right in with that tradition.

YMMV, but regardless of the level of authenticity present in the name, it's still lengthy and not a particularly catchy name to roll off the tongue when talking about prominent Unicorn personalities. Especially if you're trying to get people interested in the game.

43 minutes ago, BitRunr said:

YMMV, but regardless of the level of authenticity present in the name, it's still lengthy and not a particularly catchy name to roll off the tongue when talking about prominent Unicorn personalities. Especially if you're trying to get people interested in the game.

Looking at how bad most players are at pronouncing the japanese based names, I would say give it just some time so that people can get accostomed to that name and enjoy then all the horrible pronounciations people come up with!

On 4/21/2017 at 8:47 PM, Ryoshun Higoka said:

The Mongolian influence didn't really start until the Moto returned, though - or am I remembering that incorrectly? I know the Unicorn had "less Rokugani" names from the outset, but there was a world of difference between Hanari, Yokatsu, Kamoko, Tadaji, etc. to the great Chagatai, Shem-Zhe, Lixue, Kadu-Kai, Vordu names of the post-Moto return.

They've always had more gaijin-ish names, but Altansarnai might mean that they're starting off with the more "post-Moto" names. Which would be neat.

Funny I just made a post about this elsewhere!

First one I found was Moto Yesugai . I guess Moto Gaheris could've also been a nod in that it sounds a bit like Genghis.

I think the Unicorn names in general are broken into three sections. Gaijin/Mongolian - eg Chagatai, Korean-ish - eg Hyo-Yeon and Rokugani - eg Shigeru.

I really dislike the new Unicorn champions name. Way too much of a mouthful for me and sounds a little like a drunk english person ordering a sandwhich ! Does it even mean anything at all?

Golden Rose, as mentioned literally few posts above.

Just now, WHW said:

Golden Rose, as mentioned literally few posts above.

Cheers. I'm trying to skim read my way through the forum threads and missed that. Haven't logged on in a couple days til this morning.

On 4/21/2017 at 2:04 PM, Kinzen said:

If a castle were to be named Taru sano Min Okai, the Castle of the Swift Sword, I would nod and let it pass. Yeah, homophones will happen, but it would be clear that the intent is to have a language that is phonetically modeled on Japanese, without actually being Japanese.

When the Castle of the Swift Sword is named Shiro sano Ken Hayai, it tells me somebody had a Japanese dictionary and no &#@$#@! clue how to use it. And that bugs me.

I guess what I've been failing to understand all along, is why it could not be exclusively called the Castle of the Swift Sword, or the Seven Stings Keep, or Carpenter Castle, and avoid the whole issue of foreign grammar. I'll admit "Black Forest" just makes me think of ham, but it's accessible and means the same thing as what they were going for, and it wouldn't break my sense of immersion in an Asia-jnspired setting nearly as much as Mori Kuroi does.