I want the game to be primarily about the 7 Great Clans.

But these clans need unpredictable pawns (ronin, minor clans, etc) to keep things interesting. I think the game is greatly enhanced by having them in, but the core story needs to be about the 7.

I just don't want more playable factions. There's only so many different and interesting mechanics and themes designers can make. 7 is already a lot, especially with 3 win conditions.

50 minutes ago, Jedi samurai said:

They don't need minor clan members for netural cards, they have Ronin.

Minor Clans, Imperials and Ronin all bring different things as neutrals.

Ronins could bring in the outside mercenary aspect.

Imperials could bring in an over authority aspect.

Minor Clans could bring in several unified support themes based on which minor clan was involved.

In the old canon the Great Clans were prohibited from declaring war on the Minor Clans by Imperial Decree unless they could prove extenuating circumstances. That didn't stop them from exerting influence on them in other ways and using their superior political clout to make the life of a minor clan miserable if it served their greater purposes. Its one of the reasons that many of the minor clans would be on good terms with the clan that their founder originally came from. Its why the Dragon Fly served as a sort of Gate Keeper to the Dragon lands for many clans, acting as an intermediary and interpreter as it were for some of the more unusual Dragon traditions. Similarly you had groups like the three man alliance where three of the minor clans pooled their resources to fight off a Scorpion Army that was threatening the Sparrow clan due to a trumped up slight in the courts.

Here's a thought: In Star Wars and now Netrunner they've released a "campaign" style event, and in Star Wars it's everyone vs. 1 player. What if they did the same here, releasing a Shadowlands box set where the Shadowlands player gets a massive ton of cards and plays against 1-4 other players, adjusting the strength of the Shadowlands player as necessary? Then, as a big event, you have people representing their favorite clans at official tournaments vs. Shadowlands players, and the clans with the most victories get something big in the story. If the Shadlowands win the most, however, something really bad happens in the story.

4 hours ago, Ultimatecalibur said:

Minor Clans, Imperials and Ronin all bring different things as neutrals.

Ronins could bring in the outside mercenary aspect.

Imperials could bring in an over authority aspect.

Minor Clans could bring in several unified support themes based on which minor clan was involved.

Could you add the Brotherhood of Shinsei to that list too?

2 minutes ago, BlindSamurai13 said:

Could you add the Brotherhood of Shinsei to that list too?

Monks could add various ring based factor as neutrals.

1 hour ago, 17th Knight said:

Here's a thought: In Star Wars and now Netrunner they've released a "campaign" style event, and in Star Wars it's everyone vs. 1 player. What if they did the same here, releasing a Shadowlands box set where the Shadowlands player gets a massive ton of cards and plays against 1-4 other players, adjusting the strength of the Shadowlands player as necessary? Then, as a big event, you have people representing their favorite clans at official tournaments vs. Shadowlands players, and the clans with the most victories get something big in the story. If the Shadlowands win the most, however, something really bad happens in the story.

There are several possibilities potentially coming down the pipe that can serve as big story moments. The closest is the Scorpion Clan Coup which could have the clans go to different sides in the "campaign" and try to retake/defend Otosan Uchi. This time we'll elect Emperor Shoju.

2 hours ago, 17th Knight said:

If the Shadlowands win the most, however, something really bad happens in the story.

Hello [thousand years of] Darkness my old friend....

23 hours ago, Tonbo Karasu said:

A thought has occurred to me for a way to get the Spider in a bit early.

The Order of the Spider sohei are a subtly heretical group of monks that espouse the way of Shourido - a philosophy that sounds reasonable on the surface but at its core corrupts the celestial order of Rokugan. The Dragon Clan are only just beginning to notice its spread. A reason for its popularity is the way it seems to empower the lower classes.

Excuse me for quoting myself.

Given the amount of approval this proposal got, the Order of the Spider are going to be in the next L5R RPG I run, even if it's before the Iweko dynasty.

9 hours ago, Tonbo Karasu said:

Excuse me for quoting myself.

Given the amount of approval this proposal got, the Order of the Spider are going to be in the next L5R RPG I run, even if it's before the Iweko dynasty.

It is an excellent idea, and it should be what the spider was all along. They should never have been an officially recognized clan.

10 hours ago, Tonbo Karasu said:

Given the amount of approval this proposal got, the Order of the Spider are going to be in the next L5R RPG I run, even if it's before the Iweko dynasty.

In the game I run, it's set in the reign of Toturi 4th (toturis dynasty was too short for my tastes), and a "crazy" delusional old emperor has agreed to make the spider a real clan. In truth, the emperor traveled with a spider clan samurai in his youth and my version of spider are tainted humans trying to reclaim their honor and place in rokugan, despised by every other clan.

But that I feel puts them more in line with the other great clans than as their own pseudo-shadowlands pure evil presence.

41 minutes ago, profparm said:

In the game I run, it's set in the reign of Toturi 4th (toturis dynasty was too short for my tastes), and a "crazy" delusional old emperor has agreed to make the spider a real clan. In truth, the emperor traveled with a spider clan samurai in his youth and my version of spider are tainted humans trying to reclaim their honor and place in rokugan, despised by every other clan.

But that I feel puts them more in line with the other great clans than as their own pseudo-shadowlands pure evil presence.

I always thought that the Spider as the outcasts trying to become honorable would have been a way better depiction than the token evil teammate that everyone is wondering why we let them tag along.

On 26/04/2017 at 5:40 AM, Tonbo Karasu said:

A thought has occurred to me for a way to get the Spider in a bit early.

The Order of the Spider sohei are a subtly heretical group of monks that espouse the way of Shourido - a philosophy that sounds reasonable on the surface but at its core corrupts the celestial order of Rokugan. The Dragon Clan are only just beginning to notice its spread. A reason for its popularity is the way it seems to empower the lower classes.

That is an awesome idea that could make the Spider work in the setting. Specially of the emphasized part is played straight (as in: "seems to, but don't actually empower the lower classes, just Taints them"). If there is enough neutral personalities of this order and enough oni/zombie/goblin/etc neutral cards, the Spider playerbase could almost have their cake and eat it too, while not warping the setting to hell.

On 26/04/2017 at 11:30 AM, Tonbo Karasu said:

I'd be interested in a story arc where we are having first contact with gunpowder and leading up to the Battle of the White Stag in the present day.

Now this, THIS I love!

For people that can't see how gunpowder weapons could mesh with L5R, I just want to seriously recommend Nioh, a ps4 exclusive game. It depicts a very supernatural version of the unification of Japan by Tokugawa Ieyasu.

I would say that if the AEG didnt get the extra factions , Spider , naga etc to work whit the other factions was their own fault,

Adding later the Naga and Spider and say Mantis clans to this new LCG, forexample as own clans doesnt meen FFG will fail as AEG failed in some aspects, FFG can totally make it better and balanced even whit 10 clans.

This FFG have allready proved whit other LCG:s. They can make exellent card games and its not a reason to make only 7 clans because AEG failed in some aspects.

More we have options to play the more interesting the world and story is.

On 21.4.2017 at 6:04 PM, Teslacrashed said:

Even though I was a pretty diehard Mantis player, I'm personally glad they are reigning the game in to the core 7 clans. I understand why AEG got rid of Shadowlands and made the Spider clan, even though I always hated the concept story wise, but I really don't want to hash that back up here.

Between 7 clans and 3 methods of victory, I feel FFG will be able to do plenty to make the game feel different for each clan without breaking anything too much.

For the sake of maintaining game balance, I'd personally want all the other factions left out of getting strongholds and as playable factions.

But I still would like to see Minor Clans as personalities and maybe even the ability to have a Minor Clan "Province" card, I think that would be neat, ways to have a moderate presence of minor clans, but stop short of making them a full faction.

For game balance even 10 factions are not bad, i think that adding more clans as playable doesnt break the balance.

If i understood right many people say here that old L5R was unbalanced at some point because of too many clans and playable factions, if AEG failed here it doesnt mean FFG will.

In my opinion if they bring more factions, FFG will totally shine here and they will make it work perfectly.

I don't like having more than 7 major clans in the game. I play AGoT LCG and having 8 factions feels too much, because the cardpool for the factions grow very slowly. But I like the idea of clans getting introduced as neutral cards that you can play out of all major clans.

19 minutes ago, Ignithas said:

I don't like having more than 7 major clans in the game. I play AGoT LCG and having 8 factions feels too much, because the cardpool for the factions grow very slowly. But I like the idea of clans getting introduced as neutral cards that you can play out of all major clans.

Well this game gendre just dont feel right if something ´will be left out, this will not be Rogugan or the L5R thing if something old and good like Naga are left out....I have room in my self to add some more clans and factions to my stores

1 hour ago, Ignithas said:

But I like the idea of clans getting introduced as neutral cards that you can play out of all major clans.

FFG did that with Warhammer Invasion LCG, adding the skavens, undead, wood elves and Lizardmen factions as neutrals and I absolutly hated it. I feel it's an awful way to add factions in a game.

On 24.4.2017 at 6:20 PM, GooeyChewie said:

FFG likes to introduce new factions (whatever they may be called in their respective games) in their big boxes, so I predict we will see both Spider and Mantis fairly soon.

I don't think Spider would retain any immunity to dishonor. Even if they can avoid being dishonored, you can't just bid 5 every time. Your opponent would gain honor every time and you'd lose as they honor out.

I hope they will bring them too...

I dont understand when people complain or fear that FFG would bring forexample Shadowlands as a playable faction to the game and say then that it will ruin the whole game...

Why would it ruin the game, this game have different developers and it means FFG can make it work, no doubt there.If some people dont like the other than the 7 factions that come in core set, they allways can shoose not to play them.

If nagas , Shadowlands and Mantis come, i will definately play those factions.

3 minutes ago, Terppa57 said:

I hope they will bring them too...

I dont understand when people complain or fear that FFG would bring forexample Shadowlands as a playable faction to the game and say then that it will ruin the whole game...

Why would it ruin the game, this game have different developers and it means FFG can make it work, no doubt there.If some people dont like the other than the 7 factions that come in core set, they allways can shoose not to play them.

If nagas , Shadowlands and Mantis come, i will definately play those factions.

I'm sorry, but this simply isn't a very good argument. People have come up with some very good reasons that Shadowlands don't seem like they could fit as a playable faction, and I'm sure the developers have thought of the same issues (and perhaps more). It's entirely possible that they may be able to come up with a way to make it work without feeling clunky and forced, but it's also possible that their solution may be to simply not include Shadowlands as a playable faction (at least, not in the main line).

Simply saying "the developers can do it!" doesn't really address any of the objections people have.

4 minutes ago, Terppa57 said:

I dont understand when people complain or fear that FFG would bring forexample Shadowlands as a playable faction to the game and say then that it will ruin the whole game...

Because thematically, having Oni, gobelins or undead participating in a Political conflict would not make any sense (and no, a few Pekkle no Oni or Bog Hag isn't enough to justify it), nor would it make any sense thematically to have those characters having any fate or the Shadowlands "clan" to gain or lose any honor.

So if FFG wanted to add to the Shadowlands as a full-fledged playable faction, they would to specifically change the rules for them (never a good idea for balance to have a faction that works with too many differences with the rest of the field), and bend (or break) the theme of most of the main mechanics of the game. Both are seen as damageable to the game by a lot of people.

I expect to see 1 more "traditional" faction get added to the game in the form of "The Mantis Clan Alliance", which will represent the rising forces of Yoritomo and his political alliances among the Minor Clans in order to present a challenge to the more unified Great Clans.

If Shadowlands gets added as a faction, I would expect to see it either as a Conflict side only faction / Corrupted (and optional) replacement for your Role card. Possibly, they would be able to do it as a special seasonal, 1 vs 4 set up.

I would not expect to ever see the Ronin, the Brotherhood, the Naga, the Ratlings, or the Imperials to ever have a full faction set up. I would like them all to be nice neutral cards to round out your deck. Until enough of them are out there, and we see that crazy Neutral stronghold for one of the factions, as a sort of promo / one off, not a full faction.

18 minutes ago, KerenRhys said:

Because thematically, having Oni, gobelins or undead participating in a Political conflict would not make any sense (and no, a few Pekkle no Oni or Bog Hag isn't enough to justify it), nor would it make any sense thematically to have those characters having any fate or the Shadowlands "clan" to gain or lose any honor.

So if FFG wanted to add to the Shadowlands as a full-fledged playable faction, they would to specifically change the rules for them (never a good idea for balance to have a faction that works with too many differences with the rest of the field), and bend (or break) the theme of most of the main mechanics of the game. Both are seen as damageable to the game by a lot of people.

Why not?

2 hours ago, Terppa57 said:

For game balance even 10 factions are not bad, i think that adding more clans as playable doesnt break the balance.

With the new "role" stuff that we just found out on Tuesday FFG cannot possibly add more than 2 more factions without overhauling that system, which seems unlikely.

You could technically have 10 factions with that system. However, the winner at worlds cannot select the role his faction had previously. With more than 9 factions there is no way to guarantee this works out.

20 minutes ago, KerenRhys said:

Because thematically, having Oni, gobelins or undead participating in a Political conflict would not make any sense (and no, a few Pekkle no Oni or Bog Hag isn't enough to justify it), nor would it make any sense thematically to have those characters having any fate or the Shadowlands "clan" to gain or lose any honor.

So if FFG wanted to add to the Shadowlands as a full-fledged playable faction, they would to specifically change the rules for them (never a good idea for balance to have a faction that works with too many differences with the rest of the field), and bend (or break) the theme of most of the main mechanics of the game. Both are seen as damageable to the game by a lot of people.

Here is a great idea:

Undead - Action, once per turn add one Fate token to this character! Characters who never cycle out!!