10 minutes ago, Yoritomo Reiu said:No, this is a myth perpetuated by the Scorpion to convince the rest of the Empire to tolerate their continued existence. We shouldn't buy into it as players.
I think there are times when they do but it's a valid point.
I'll re-phrase that.
The Scorpion say they do dirty deeds for the Greater Good. The Spider say the do all kinds of deeds for the Personal Good.
Edited by Tonbo KarasuThey did not include all the other "missing" factions because at the time of the sale, these were the nine playable factions.
4 hours ago, Isawa Tasatu said:Hence them being more Gaijin than Rokugan clan like.... either way whether you have Spider or Shadowlands, should not be a clan, even if a playable faction. So I don`t see the need for us to reintroduce a clan that never made sense as a clan.
When it comes to Spider - I'd rather they just become Shadowlands/Tainted. A mechanic where they can include samurai from any clan by tainting themw ould be interesting. Making them a great clan isn't needed.
As for Gaijin - I guess its also possible we see Yodotai or something in the future.
I'd be interested in a story arc where we are having first contact with gunpowder and leading up to the Battle of the White Stag in the present day.
7 minutes ago, Tonbo Karasu said:I'd be interested in a story arc where we are having first contact with gunpowder and leading up to the Battle of the White Stag in the present day.
I think that would be a really cool story.
I also think it would be a hard genie to put back in the bottle afterwards, though.
The fun thing about gunpowder is that it was created in...East Asia. More specifically, in China. Always wanted to give Crab some of these weapons: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Huolongjing
Maybe I exaggerated with gunpowder, but I meant cannons and musketry.
As you say, putting the genie back in the bottle would be hard, but I'm pretty sure I remember the R2k story having a pair of flintlock pistol nemuranai and Empire of the Emerald Stars posits sci-fi samurai with a Wakizashi and a pistol in their daisho.
Honestly, the biggest problems with cannons and musketry is that they never meshed with the aesthetics that L5R gunned for. Not that samurais and muskets can't work together if you do it good.
That's why for our home games, we scrapped the whole gaijin powder thing - Agasha discovered it looong time ago, and Crab use it a lot for fantastical, over the top weapons that are too clunky and too immobile for standard warfare, but are perfect for fortifications where being big heavy and metal is a boon :).
Responding to the response about silver bullet mechanics - what I meant that if Shadowlands --> Taint won't be a huge deal in Core (or at all), this will mean that Crab clan won't have to be burdened with silver bullet mechanics eating up their concept space and "forcing" X of their cardpool to be about nuking Tainted targets. I never liked that.
1 hour ago, Ser Nakata said:They did not include all the other "missing" factions because at the time of the sale, these were the nine playable factions.
Except that they bought the entire IP, which would include all of the minor factions.
7 minutes ago, DarwinsDog said:Except that they bought the entire IP, which would include all of the minor factions.
Personally, I can't see why they wouldn't want to use the Mantis. They have a unique storyline (which they can expand or change as they so desire) with an interesting schtick. I think the idea of a clan that dictates their own fate (seeing as that's the currency now, this still keeps them as the masters of currency as well).
I think they would do well to have one-off unique members of the minor clans as well. A Boar clan warrior or a Sparrow clan courtier would be interesting as neutral characters to mix in with the Imperial families.
The best part about L5R is that it has a ton of story and characters to mine for the game while also being it's own entity. Star Wars has outside parties dictating what can and cannot be done with the game. L5R can do anything or go anywhere because it's their property.
29 minutes ago, ricefrisbeetreats said:Personally, I can't see why they wouldn't want to use the Mantis. They have a unique storyline (which they can expand or change as they so desire) with an interesting schtick. I think the idea of a clan that dictates their own fate (seeing as that's the currency now, this still keeps them as the masters of currency as well).
I think they would do well to have one-off unique members of the minor clans as well. A Boar clan warrior or a Sparrow clan courtier would be interesting as neutral characters to mix in with the Imperial families.
The best part about L5R is that it has a ton of story and characters to mine for the game while also being it's own entity. Star Wars has outside parties dictating what can and cannot be done with the game. L5R can do anything or go anywhere because it's their property.
The storyline might not happen.
I would think minor clan guys would be attached to certain major clans (Dragonfly = Dragon, Sparrow = Crane etc....) Neutral characters would be Ronin, no?
12 minutes ago, Jedi samurai said:
The storyline might not happen.
I would think minor clan guys would be attached to certain major clans (Dragonfly = Dragon, Sparrow = Crane etc....) Neutral characters would be Ronin, no?
In the CCG, the minor clans that I remember were neutral cards as were the Imperial families. The Ronin were usually marked "Ronin" to differentiate them.
3 minutes ago, ricefrisbeetreats said:In the CCG, the minor clans that I remember were neutral cards as were the Imperial families. The Ronin were usually marked "Ronin" to differentiate them.
etc........
15 minutes ago, Jedi samurai said:
etc........
Those were all prizes from a single tournament. Minor clan personalities were almost always unaligned.
28 minutes ago, Jedi samurai said:
etc........
The examples you provided were from a very specific storyline event where each Great Clan picked a Minor clan personality to ally with.
3 minutes ago, ricefrisbeetreats said:The examples you provided were from a very specific storyline event where each Great Clan picked a Minor clan personality to ally with.
ok. just pointing out thats how they did it at one point. And I think it makes more sense to make minor clan samurai and ronin different
4 minutes ago, Jedi samurai said:ok. just pointing out thats how they did it at one point. And I think it makes more sense to make minor clan samurai and ronin different
So now all minor clans are just a part of a Great clan? That makes even less sense to me. The old system had aligned cards like the Great Clans and unaligned cards like Ronin and minor clans. How would you then represent the Otomo and Seppun families?
41 minutes ago, ricefrisbeetreats said:So now all minor clans are just a part of a Great clan? That makes even less sense to me. The old system had aligned cards like the Great Clans and unaligned cards like Ronin and minor clans. How would you then represent the Otomo and Seppun families?
I think you fold them into the Great Clans in terms of the conflicts being show in the game (baring other mechanics - like a minor clan stronghold or something).
Is the Hare clan going to go to war with another great clan on their own, or go supporting the Dragon clan?
Just now, Jedi samurai said:Is the Hare clan going to go to war with another great clan on their own, or go supporting the Dragon clan?
Generally, a minor clan is going to do whatever it can to avoid conflict with a great clan. Doesn't doing so void their imperial protection?
28 minutes ago, Yoritomo Reiu said:Generally, a minor clan is going to do whatever it can to avoid conflict with a great clan. Doesn't doing so void their imperial protection?
I believe so. Which is why I believe they showed up as unaligned cards. If a clan as a whole outwardly showed a preference to a clan, there might be consequences.
13 minutes ago, ricefrisbeetreats said:I believe so. Which is why I believe they showed up as unaligned cards. If a clan as a whole outwardly showed a preference to a clan, there might be consequences.
except some minor clans do show preference to other clans.
1 minute ago, Jedi samurai said:except some minor clans do show preference to other clans.
They still have to play nice with everyone.
1 minute ago, ricefrisbeetreats said:They still have to play nice with everyone.
then they shouldn't be in the game of CONFLICT at all
2 minutes ago, Jedi samurai said:then they shouldn't be in the game of CONFLICT at all
You're misunderstanding. The minor clans, as far as I'm aware, try to be as neutral as possible when it comes to dealings with the Great Clans. Pissing one of them off may cause them huge problems down the road. So instead, they tend to play the field and curry favors with all the Great Clans, working with them all equally. This doesn't mean that you won't see a large number of Dragonfly clan members working with the Dragon. More than likely they'll blame it on proximity rather than favoritism. But if the designers are looking for ways to develop neutral cards, minor clans seem solid and then people building a deck around shugenja and yojimbo might toss in a few Dragonfly personalities to round out their deck. Or the Mirumoto may also find it beneficial to add in a Dragonfly card or two.
They could go the way of giving each minor clan to a great clan, but at that point, what differentiates a minor clan from a family within the clan itself?
3 minutes ago, ricefrisbeetreats said:You're misunderstanding. The minor clans, as far as I'm aware, try to be as neutral as possible when it comes to dealings with the Great Clans. Pissing one of them off may cause them huge problems down the road. So instead, they tend to play the field and curry favors with all the Great Clans, working with them all equally. This doesn't mean that you won't see a large number of Dragonfly clan members working with the Dragon. More than likely they'll blame it on proximity rather than favoritism. But if the designers are looking for ways to develop neutral cards, minor clans seem solid and then people building a deck around shugenja and yojimbo might toss in a few Dragonfly personalities to round out their deck. Or the Mirumoto may also find it beneficial to add in a Dragonfly card or two.
They could go the way of giving each minor clan to a great clan, but at that point, what differentiates a minor clan from a family within the clan itself?
then it makes no sense for them be in a game about conflict between the great clans.
They don't need minor clan members for netural cards, they have Ronin.
The minor clans would/could bring something different to their great clan.......big brothers. Basically the same thing that would make them different if they were neutral.