Just now, BitRunr said:

Even then, cards have two colours. Do you remember the Yoritomo's Alliance / Mantis Clan card colours?

Dark Green, with yellow swirls, IIRC.

9 minutes ago, BitRunr said:

Even then, cards have two colours. Do you remember the Yoritomo's Alliance / Mantis Clan card colours? Daikua comes to mind.

Mostly green with a little yellow, when the dragon cards are mostly yellow with a little green. What's the point of the question?

Daikua comes from a time when the Yoritomo's Alliance didn't exist (storywise) and so used the Unaligned colors. I don't see how he could be relevant to the discussion.

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I don't see how he could be relevant to the discussion.

His card still says "Mantis Clan Scout". So if you want to go back as far as possible for the two clans and debate who wore it first, then the answer is not Mantis.

7 minutes ago, BitRunr said:

His card still says "Mantis Clan Scout". So if you want to go back as far as possible for the two clans and debate who wore it first, then the answer is not Mantis.

Except that the dragons never had green as their main cards' color before the LCG, so yeah, the Yoritomo's Alliance/Mantis used it first.

But whatever floats your boat, man. If, for you, yellow is a color so awful you have to stay so much in denial, keep believing what you want.

You should keep the words you're placing, mate. It doesn't suit you to put them in my mouth, and no one is going to appreciate the effort when you start up like that. Or don't. It's your time, spend it how you want.

Great clans still have two colours.

I believe the problem basically is "If Dragon cards' borders are green, then what will Mantis cards' border colour be?"

Every clan uses multiple colours in clothing and such, of course.

2 minutes ago, Smobey said:

I believe the problem basically is "If Dragon cards' borders are green, then what will Mantis cards' border colour be?"

Every clan uses multiple colours in clothing and such, of course.

I think the colors are very pastel. The more brownish card frame of the lion became more yellow and the dragon shifted from yellow to a light green.

However we see the light blue/dark blue thing for the crane and crab. So Mantis could still be green but simply with a darker color (aka dark green).

Things are getting a wee bit heated here.

Can I suggest this thread?

FFG likes to introduce new factions (whatever they may be called in their respective games) in their big boxes, so I predict we will see both Spider and Mantis fairly soon.

I don't think Spider would retain any immunity to dishonor. Even if they can avoid being dishonored, you can't just bid 5 every time. Your opponent would gain honor every time and you'd lose as they honor out.

1 hour ago, KerenRhys said:

Except that the dragons never had green as their main cards' color before the LCG, so yeah, the Yoritomo's Alliance/Mantis used it first.

But whatever floats your boat, man. If, for you, yellow is a color so awful you have to stay so much in denial, keep believing what you want.

Not to be rude nor offensive, just to clarify.

Green was used by Naga (for the first time) in 1995 (shadowlands set)
I can understand that we are all passionate for our clans, but lets keep it cool.

Given that there's been, what, nearly 20 factions over the history of the CCG, there's no way that there could be any sort of single claimant on particular colours. We're just getting a bit ridiculous, I think.

And that is how the Clan Color Wars started, kids.

Give me whatever color you want if I'm allowed to play the Mantis again.

45 minutes ago, GooeyChewie said:

FFG likes to introduce new factions (whatever they may be called in their respective games) in their big boxes, so I predict we will see both Spider and Mantis fairly soon.

Really? Only about half of their LCG lines ever have had additional factions added. In the two major examples, Call of Cthulhu added the Silver Twilight after a decade, and Conquest upfront said they were bringing two new factions into the game as the first two deluxes (something FFG had never done before, and hasn't done since). Netrunner has their mini-factions, and even they were nearly three years after release.

They've reset the timeline to years/decades before the Mantis/Spider first appeared in the old timeline (not that they could or should feel constrained to follow the old stories; what's the point in buying the IP if you're not going to tell your own stories instead of copying what came before?). A deluxe box comes out once every six months or longer. That's almost four years before we get through the deluxes with just the starting Great Seven Clans. None of their marketing so far has mentioned or hinted at Mantis or Spider. The next 18 months or so of cards are already designed and in the print queue over in China; with a Q4 release for the base set in 2017, that means we'll start seeing the cards designed based on their watching the game played in the wild in 2019 to 2020.

They certainly could bring back the Mantis, or Spider. Or a ronin army. Or the Monks. Or give us a Senpet faction. Or whatever they want. And perhaps they will. But perhaps they won't. Whatever they do, it won't be "soon"-ish.

It's true that we haven't seen hint of the Mantis or Spider yet, but we've also only had one official article. I wouldn't expect any information from upcoming big boxes yet. Besides, I am an optimist. :-)

On 4/21/2017 at 7:18 PM, Hordeoverseer said:

I have a friend who tells me that they feel they have no place in the game if there's no Spider Clan, thus not play. What can I say to the friend to encourage him otherwise?

Some of the flavor text we've seen says there is a large army moving toward the Kaiu Wall - I'd be surprised if we don't get a tainted/shadowlands faction fairly soon.

2 minutes ago, Jedi samurai said:

Some of the flavor text we've seen says there is a large army moving toward the Kaiu Wall - I'd be surprised if we don't get a tainted/shadowlands faction fairly soon.

Plot points do not mean a new faction.

1 hour ago, Gaffa said:

Plot points do not mean a new faction.

If the destroyer war taufh us anything, it's that it should. Having villains in the story you can't play kinda sucks

if this big army is a pot point, the first deluxe expansion introducing taint/shadowlands would make sense

4 hours ago, Gaffa said:

A deluxe box comes out once every six months or longer. That's almost four years before we get through the deluxes with just the starting Great Seven Clans.

Not to disagree with you, but it is possible that the they could do clan v clan in the deluxe boxes for L5R which cuts that time frame in half

5 hours ago, Gaffa said:

Really? Only about half of their LCG lines ever have had additional factions added. In the two major examples, Call of Cthulhu added the Silver Twilight after a decade, and Conquest upfront said they were bringing two new factions into the game as the first two deluxes (something FFG had never done before, and hasn't done since). Netrunner has their mini-factions, and even they were nearly three years after release.

They've reset the timeline to years/decades before the Mantis/Spider first appeared in the old timeline (not that they could or should feel constrained to follow the old stories; what's the point in buying the IP if you're not going to tell your own stories instead of copying what came before?). A deluxe box comes out once every six months or longer. That's almost four years before we get through the deluxes with just the starting Great Seven Clans. None of their marketing so far has mentioned or hinted at Mantis or Spider. The next 18 months or so of cards are already designed and in the print queue over in China; with a Q4 release for the base set in 2017, that means we'll start seeing the cards designed based on their watching the game played in the wild in 2019 to 2020.

They certainly could bring back the Mantis, or Spider. Or a ronin army. Or the Monks. Or give us a Senpet faction. Or whatever they want. And perhaps they will. But perhaps they won't. Whatever they do, it won't be "soon"-ish.

Assuming you're right about their printing scheduel - just because they aren't talking about Shadownlands (or any additional faction) now doesn' tmean there are no plans for it.

They haven't talked about an RPG yet - does that mean they haven't started working it?

As someone who played as Shadowlands before there ever was an official stronghold, I'm fine without having then as a playable faction at the beginning of the reboot. In fact I'd probably be fine if they never got an official stronghold. Part of the enjoyment of the game was trying to corrupt each clan by playing with Shadowlands to show that each clan was vulnerable to the pull of the dark side. Some of the stories about the various bargains that clan heroes made with the shadowlands were some of my favorite fiction anywhere.

My first starter deck, given to me my the honorable Master Horvath, was a Phoenix starter that contained both Summon Undead Champion and Oni no Akuma. From that moment I was determined to make rose guys work and began doing the same with the other clans. Seeing the experiences versions of cards become Shadowlands was just awesome. Oddly enough when AEG made the first official Shadowlands stronghold I wasn't a fan. I kept on playing corrupted decks out of other clans as I felt that was the best way to take the good guys down.

Periodically I'd check back in on the game and I'd see some new version of the Shadowlands stronghold which made it almost impossible to run Shadowlands cards in other clans because there was no way to absorb the honor loss. This created a much more defined divide between good and evil and seemed much less interesting.

I like the game resetting to a time where the clans will be in conflict with one another while Fu Leng's horde threatens Rogukan. I want to see what bargains the clans make to secure their own place and if the empire will succumb to the temptation of the dark side. I just hope that there will be Shadowlands characters in the game as I also hope to see minor clans, Naga, Ratlings etc all make an appearance at some point. I don't really need a specific stronghold in order to represent my clan of choice. Congratulations to the people who are supporters of the returning clans. Hopefully you still enjoy them after I'm done corrupting them all. Muwhahahahahaha.

3 hours ago, Jedi samurai said:

If the destroyer war taufh us anything, it's that it should. Having villains in the story you can't play kinda sucks

Not always, and not for all people. Not every gaming story requires the villains to be playable to be good.

And there's absolutely zero reason to take any of their establishing plot points in what little they've given us so far and claim any sort of sign that it indicates upcoming factions.

If you are excited about playing Shadowlands, that's fine, but right now all we know for factions is that there's seven Great Clans. Don't overread just because you're eager.

2 hours ago, Jedi samurai said:

Assuming you're right about their printing scheduel - just because they aren't talking about Shadownlands (or any additional faction) now doesn' tmean there are no plans for it.

They haven't talked about an RPG yet - does that mean they haven't started working it?

Of course they could have plans for it. Or they might not. But there's nothing out right now that shows any sign of additional factions or not.

Likewise the RPG. They might be working on one. Or they might not. Right now, we don't know. An announcement at the grand debut at GenCon would be emotionally appropriate, but if there's no plan right now to do it, then they won't say anything.

9 hours ago, ricefrisbeetreats said:

Give me whatever color you want if I'm allowed to play the Mantis again.

Its fine just means Mantis will take Gold, it is our favorite colour after all

2 hours ago, Gaffa said:

Not always, and not for all people. Not every gaming story requires the villains to be playable to be good.

And there's absolutely zero reason to take any of their establishing plot points in what little they've given us so far and claim any sort of sign that it indicates upcoming factions.

If you are excited about playing Shadowlands, that's fine, but right now all we know for factions is that there's seven Great Clans. Don't overread just because you're eager.

Well, there is Shoju, who can everyone's villain. Ok, everyone but the Scorpion's villain.