I may have a bit of a different perspective than most here, as I never played the CCG. I desperately wanted to like the game because I thought it was cool IP, but there were some elements that were turn offs to me as a potential player. One was, of course, the dated mechanics, but another thing that detracted me from investing in the game was that there were too many clans, so the card pool for a given clan was too thin. I as actually hoping FFG would reduce the number of playable clans to 5. I'm saying this as someone on the outside looking in and with no real attachment to any clan.

As an outsider, I found the inclusion of the Spider Clan incredibly bizarre, as I thought it was suppose to be a game about samurai upholding a set of ethicical principles. Their inclusion in the new version seems in jeopardy because of how honor/bushido is integrated in the game.

The mantis made a little more sense to me, but as I'd rather have minor clans that could be splashed into the major clan decks, as to allow for more variance in deck building within a given clan.

Instead of a whole faction I'd much rather see the shadowlands and other "dishonorables" like the kolat, bloodspeakers etc. as neutrals that are playable in different clans. That would catch the spirit of everyone being able to fall from grace far better than one dedicated faction. That way you wouldn't need to put in extra mechanics for the draw and the like and would still be able to have them. Just pay a certain price for the power they grant you. Anyone else remember the good old oni that destroyed the province in which you summoned him?

The Shadowlands can definitely be fundamental to the setting without having their own faction.

Honestly, one of the big problems with the Shadowlands, and by extension the Spider, was that when you factionalize them, you bring them down to the level of any one other Clan. This serves to diminish the awe-inspiring nature of the threat they are supposed to possess. How can anyone really look at the Shadowlands and think 'oh crap' when they are only as strong as any other of the Seven Clans individually?

You can say 'well, it's just a skirmish, not all of the horde against one clan', but you mind still sees them as being equals.

Id like them to release a multiplayer all against one shadowlands deck where you cant win by honor but you can still dishonor yourself out.

34 minutes ago, progheed said:

I may have a bit of a different perspective than most here, as I never played the CCG. I desperately wanted to like the game because I thought it was cool IP, but there were some elements that were turn offs to me as a potential player. One was, of course, the dated mechanics, but another thing that detracted me from investing in the game was that there were too many clans, so the card pool for a given clan was too thin. I as actually hoping FFG would reduce the number of playable clans to 5. I'm saying this as someone on the outside looking in and with no real attachment to any clan.

As an outsider, I found the inclusion of the Spider Clan incredibly bizarre, as I thought it was suppose to be a game about samurai upholding a set of ethicical principles. Their inclusion in the new version seems in jeopardy because of how honor/bushido is integrated in the game.

The mantis made a little more sense to me, but as I'd rather have minor clans that could be splashed into the major clan decks, as to allow for more variance in deck building within a given clan.

Note, based on your statement, we would like to clarify that Mantis and Spider/Shadowlands have in no way announced as being playable. Due to the generally loyalty of a lot of people to these factions, the question comes down to whether or not they will work to bring them in, or if these 'factions' as playable are now dead, and thus makign those with a strong loyalty to these factions sad.

Longtime Shadowlands/Spider here: At this point I'm just hoping for a Yogo Junzo character (Junzoko or Junzohime would do, too) and a few tainted card, and I'm all set. Failing that, I will play whatever clan that can make better use of Shadowlands cards.

I would be surprised if Mantis and the Spider/Shadowlands don't become playable factions at some point. Adding a new faction seems perfect for FFG's deluxe expansions.

My question would be - how would they be mechanically unique from the other factions? Crab are defensive specialists who counter attack, Dragon would appear to be voltron-ish, Lion like to swarm with lots of smaller units etc...

Shadownlands seems easier - big military numbers with no political ability. Ability to play cards with taint. Maho cards etc...

Mantis seem harder. The game currency is now fate, not gold so.....that advantage is gone/doesn't make sense for them anymore. I guess Naval could work in this game too, but all know how over powered it was in the original.

13 minutes ago, Mon no Oni said:

Longtime Shadowlands/Spider here: At this point I'm just hoping for a Yogo Junzo character (Junzoko or Junzohime would do, too) and a few tainted card, and I'm all set. Failing that, I will play whatever clan that can make better use of Shadowlands cards.

If they follow the old story, that might be crab sooner or later.

Naga and Nezumi can remain unaligned from my point of view. Those are best in moderation.

A Shadowlands faction makes sense, but the honor/dishonor mechanic is so integral to the game now that immunity to dishonor victory would be way to good. When they somehow manage to show the corruption assect as well as the military might of the Shadowlands I would love to see that.

I am not sure how I feel about the Mantis. I always felt they were suffocating the other minor clans. I would not mind seeing the Minor Clan Alliance as a faction. The Mantis can lead the MCA, as long as I can see Hare, Badger, Firefly etc. I seriously don't mind.

yeah, I want Shadowlands/Kolat/Minor clans to all be flavors you add to a deck, but not their own thing. L5R should be about the fate of the 7 clans and how they affect Rokugan (they are the celestially chosen clans).

If a player using a shadowlands card or a Kolat card wins a tournament, that should very much factor into the story. But I don't want a Kolat deck winning a tournament, because it has nothing to do with the core of what makes L5R what it is.

Ok so i know spider and and mantis will show up in story expansions but as someone who has been playing mantis since samurai edition, I'm disappointed they have been relegated. It's also a shame the previous community driven story hasn't been respected

5 minutes ago, Teslacrashed said:

yeah, I want Shadowlands/Kolat/Minor clans to all be flavors you add to a deck, but not their own thing. L5R should be about the fate of the 7 clans and how they affect Rokugan (they are the celestially chosen clans).

If a player using a shadowlands card or a Kolat card wins a tournament, that should very much factor into the story. But I don't want a Kolat deck winning a tournament, because it has nothing to do with the core of what makes L5R what it is.

I agree with things like Kolat, Rattlings, Minor clans like the Dragonfly or Sparrow who are strongly connected to a major clan and can be included in those decks, and Naga

But I think there should be an "enemy" faction - whether it be Spider-Clan or Shadowlands. And the Mantis does have a player base that shouldn't be disregarded.

1) We don't know that, really. We do know that there is a Shadowlands army beyond the Wall, however.

2) I'm sorry that they did away with the old storyline, too, and I wish that they had done something different. But this is what we have now. It's a done deal, so we can either enjoy it, or we can be bitter about it. I will do my best to enjoy it and, in any capacity I have, will try to influence the new storyline to bring about the Spider.

9 minutes ago, gman707 said:

Ok so i know spider and and mantis will show up in story expansions but as someone who has been playing mantis since samurai edition, I'm disappointed they have been relegated. It's also a shame the previous community driven story hasn't been respected

Just because they aren't following it doesn't mean they are disrespecting what came before.

As fun as playing minor clans and other factions like Ratling or Naga may be, I don't think people understand just how ruinous it is for tournament play.

I would definitely agree to new factions as long as you couldn't include playing them in tournaments, I guess.

I have a friend who tells me that they feel they have no place in the game if there's no Spider Clan, thus not play. What can I say to the friend to encourage him otherwise?

I dont know but honest to god don't add factions that are just reskinned versions of strategies other factions are supposed to be good at. If you don't have a legitimately new way to play with a faction, don't add it. If your new way to play is really close to something an existing faction already does, roll that **** into the existing one. Dont make lion weenie=ratling swarm=naga blitz.

35 minutes ago, Hordeoverseer said:

I have a friend who tells me that they feel they have no place in the game if there's no Spider Clan, thus not play. What can I say to the friend to encourage him otherwise?

Tell them that long time Spider players, such as myself, can easily find something in the game that would attract them. For example, based on these previews, I'm most intrigued by what Scorpion is doing. I'd also like to dabble a little in Phoenix and see what all this maho is about. If there comes a point in which I'm able to corrupt clans, I'm all about it!

45 minutes ago, Hordeoverseer said:

I have a friend who tells me that they feel they have no place in the game if there's no Spider Clan, thus not play. What can I say to the friend to encourage him otherwise?

Tell him: there is a Yogo Junzo there, somewhere; and these Black Scrolls aren't going to open themselves. Be there to temp Kuni Yori to the dark side. Ride along with Moto Tsume. Be first on the line to swear fealty to Daigotsu when the time comes. Don't play the Spider Clan; be the Spider Clan. Some names may change; but he needs to be here to make it all happen.

2 hours ago, Yandia said:

A Shadowlands faction makes sense, but the honor/dishonor mechanic is so integral to the game now that immunity to dishonor victory would be way to good. When they somehow manage to show the corruption assect as well as the military might of the Shadowlands I would love to see that.

I could see a Shadowlands/Spider "Honor" victory being tempting the other side into corruption.

Despite most of the Shadowlands creatures being Military there are still quite a few that are political.

I could see Genso no Oni, Ryokaku no Oni, Ianwa no Oni and Pekkle no Oni trying to tempt and/or threaten their way to political victory.

3 hours ago, Jedi samurai said:

Mantis seem harder. The game currency is now fate, not gold so.....that advantage is gone/doesn't make sense for them anymore. I guess Naval could work in this game too, but all know how over powered it was in the original.

The Mantis were known for forging their own fate and taking advantage of the situation presented to them. I can easily see them as ones that can manipulate fate on cards.

29 minutes ago, Ultimatecalibur said:

I could see a Shadowlands/Spider "Honor" victory being tempting the other side into corruption.

Despite most of the Shadowlands creatures being Military there are still quite a few that are political.

I could see Genso no Oni, Ryokaku no Oni, Ianwa no Oni and Pekkle no Oni trying to tempt and/or threaten their way to political victory.

It goes into the idea of Balance in the lcg. The Shadowlands, in whatever form they take, have to be fully integrated into the way the game plays rather than the Shadowlands Horde of the ccg (i.e. they didn't really care about big portions of the game). If we go by the Team Covenant roundtable, the developers really want to limit or remove elements that aren't really 'fun', which is why the snowball effect was removed and why politics is very similar to military now.

I think I'd rather see a slow rollout of the Shadowlands in this iteration of the game. You know, really push that tainted aspect till a dedicated stronghold is released. Before that, all of the Shadowlands/Spider plays can simply hide in the other clans and taint the voting. Muhahaha, or did I ruin the surprise?

9 hours ago, Tetsuro said:

The Shadowlands can definitely be fundamental to the setting without having their own faction.

Honestly, one of the big problems with the Shadowlands, and by extension the Spider, was that when you factionalize them, you bring them down to the level of any one other Clan. This serves to diminish the awe-inspiring nature of the threat they are supposed to possess. How can anyone really look at the Shadowlands and think 'oh crap' when they are only as strong as any other of the Seven Clans individually?

You can say 'well, it's just a skirmish, not all of the horde against one clan', but you mind still sees them as being equals.

Considering they're routinely kept in check by the efforts of only one Clan doesn't that mean their strength is equivalent to a single Clan?

As for additional factions I could see them doing something similar to the independent runners is Netrunner. So they'd have one expansion with a Stronghold and some cards, but little additional support.

8 hours ago, gman707 said:

Ok so i know spider and and mantis will show up in story expansions...

You don't know that. Nobody knows that (except the design team at FFG). There has been utterly no support for the view that they'll ever add (or not add) new factions at all. Please stop trying to suggest that it's a done thing; we don't even have the core set with just seven factions out yet.

10 hours ago, ricefrisbeetreats said:

The Mantis were known for forging their own fate and taking advantage of the situation presented to them. I can easily see them as ones that can manipulate fate on cards.

Fortunes favours the bold.