Strike that, the Star Wars Challenge Decks were not autonomous, but my other point about a mode of play against an autonomous deck stands. In the original Challenge Decks, there were modified rules for victory and overall gameplay. I think they could create some fairly cleaver (and terrifying) multiplayer formats and keep Spider within them.
Lack of other factions (Naga, Shadowlands)
Not to belabor the obvious, but FFG knows that name-dropping Yoritomo sets certain expectations among the fanbase.
11 minutes ago, SirEuain said:Not to belabor the obvious, but FFG knows that name-dropping Yoritomo sets certain expectations among the fanbase.
True enough, but look where name dropping got Arasou and Ujimitsu.
On 8/4/2017 at 1:05 PM, Duciris said:This is the premise of my expectations as well. I expect Mantis in the first deluxe expansion - like the first Warhammer Conquest deluxe which introduced my longtime faction, the Tyranids.
I also expect that we'll see several minor clans in other deluxe expansions - the same way they introduced 3 mini factions in the fourth Android Netrunner deluxe, https://www.fantasyflightgames.com/en/news/2015/6/1/data-and-destiny/. Those factions have each received 1 card in each subsequent cycle of the game.
As for Spider, FFG released Nekrons in the second Conquest deluxe. I suppose they could do the same for Spider, but I'd rather they didn't. Somebody posted the idea of having Shadowlands being some multiplayer boss. If they could do that (think Archenemy from Magic or what FFG tried in their second Star Wars LCG deluxe with Challenge Decks) that would be neat. Archenemy decks are (or at least the first ones were) controlled by 1 player against an average of 3. Meanwhile, the Challenge Decks were autonomous. After playing enough Arkham Horror LCG, my faith has grown in what FFG could do with a Challenge Deck since its inception.
Small problem, In Conquest the extra factions were ingrained in the Core Set rulebook. We knew they were coming.
Also the Mantis are no where to be found right now, they won't be the first deluxe. If we get a new faction, it won't be for a while, if at all.
1 hour ago, SirEuain said:Not to belabor the obvious, but FFG knows that name-dropping Yoritomo sets certain expectations among the fanbase.
At this point I think he'll show up as a neutral in one of the Dynasty packs. My opinion is that if any faction does get added in, it will be the minor clan alliance.
I could easily imagine minor clans being added in as conflict deck only, intended for influence.
Edited by player26362343 hours ago, Zesu Shadaban said:True enough, but look where name dropping got Arasou and Ujimitsu.
How popular would you say either character is among their clans' players compared to Yoritomo among Mantis?
2 hours ago, Chron73 said:At this point I think he'll show up as a neutral in one of the Dynasty packs. My opinion is that if any faction does get added in, it will be the minor clan alliance.
Oh, I expect they'll start there, but I fully believe FFG intends to bring Mantis in fully. If they can figure a way to do so, they'll do it with Spider, too.
22 minutes ago, SirEuain said:How popular would you say either character is among their clans' players compared to Yoritomo among Mantis?
Truthfully, I haven't the slightest clue. I'm a brand spanking new player in this world. 
7 hours ago, Zesu Shadaban said:Truthfully, I haven't the slightest clue. I'm a brand spanking new player in this world.
20 years on, AEG still wasn't sure what to do with the Mantis without Yoritomo. He was their clan identity.
Ujimitsu talked to himself and died. Arasou was an afterthought. Yoritomo was the point.
5 hours ago, SirEuain said:20 years on, AEG still wasn't sure what to do with the Mantis without Yoritomo. He was their clan identity.
Ujimitsu talked to himself and died. Arasou was an afterthought. Yoritomo was the point.
The lack of Mantis/Yoritomo is what's holding me back from buying all-in right now. I just don't feel a connection to another clan.
I think it is an important thing to note, whenever talking about the Spider Clan...
The Spider Clan is not (necessarily) the Shadowlands Horde.
While Yoritomo has been confirmed, spurring on hope for all Mantis players, we have no proof that Daigotsu would even exist in this timeline, let alone that he would become a powerful priest of Fu Leng and create the Spider Clan. How FFG chooses to handle the Spider Clan, and how FFG chooses to handle the Shadowlands Horde, I honestly cannot predict.
Being said? The players are still here, and we will do what we can to show our spirit. We stuck out years of being reviled in the AEG fanbase. We can survive the wait here.
On 4/21/2017 at 0:06 PM, squirrelfox said:I'll be very sad if Mantis don't show up as a story point. I think if it happens though, it has to happen pretty early in the game's life to avoid being at permanent card disadvantage.
LCGs now have a rotation system in place. And even before that happened, CoC managed to introduce the Order of the Silver Twilight well into that game's lifespan in such a way as to make it competitive (though admittedly, the mixing of factions in that game was far less restricting).
I'm pretty sure the core set and the deluxe expansions are non-rotating. At least that's it what I remember from other LCG's from FFG. If FFG does Mantis, Shadowlands, Naga, Ratling, etc. they would likely be released in a deluxe expansion so they would have the same amount of base support at each rotation of the dynasty packs.
Please someone correct me if I'm wrong on this. I only played Conquest and Star Wars LCG casually so never really paid attention to the rotations of other FFG games.
Edited by Ishi Tonu12 minutes ago, Ishi Tonu said:I'm pretty sure the core set and the deluxe expansions are non-rotating. At least that's it what I remember from other LCG's from FFG. If FFG does Mantis, Shadowlands, Naga, Ratling, etc. they would likely be released in a deluxe expansion so they would have the same amount of base support at each rotation of the dynasty packs.
Please someone correct me if I'm wrong on this. I only played Conquest and Star Wars LCG casually so never really paid attention to the rotations of other FFG games.
Conquest factions were included in the Core Rules.
They released deluxe for each faction, but the game ended before the Core factions got a box. So we don't know how they would have balanced the cardpool.
Staters released 2 factions in 1 deluxe, and you needed 2 copies to get a full playset. Then they released deluxe with different combinations. I don't play much so this is all second hand.
On 8/9/2017 at 3:21 PM, Ide Yoshiya said:LCGs now have a rotation system in place. And even before that happened, CoC managed to introduce the Order of the Silver Twilight well into that game's lifespan in such a way as to make it competitive (though admittedly, the mixing of factions in that game was far less restricting).
ST was exactly what I was referring to. I played CoC to the end, and they were always down in cards compared to the other factions.
35 minutes ago, squirrelfox said:ST was exactly what I was referring to. I played CoC to the end, and they were always down in cards compared to the other factions.
Don't you think, though, that the rotating legality of Dynasty cycles will alleviate this somewhat? They could introduce a new faction or two through deluxe products, and make them the focus of the following cycle, then take advantage of the rotation by making them a mainstay in future cycles and sets, with a roughly equivalent cardpool.
22 hours ago, Ide Yoshiya said:Don't you think, though, that the rotating legality of Dynasty cycles will alleviate this somewhat? They could introduce a new faction or two through deluxe products, and make them the focus of the following cycle, then take advantage of the rotation by making them a mainstay in future cycles and sets, with a roughly equivalent cardpool.
If only Core Set + Faction Boxes are evergreen, rotation alone wouldn't solve the problem because Unicorn, Lion, Crab, etc would all have their Core cards, Faction Box cards, plus current rotation cards, while additional factions (Mantis and Spider, *if* they show up) would only have their Faction Box plus rotation cards. There are ways to solve it, but rotation doesn't really address it.
25 minutes ago, squirrelfox said:If only Core Set + Faction Boxes are evergreen, rotation alone wouldn't solve the problem because Unicorn, Lion, Crab, etc would all have their Core cards, Faction Box cards, plus current rotation cards, while additional factions (Mantis and Spider, *if* they show up) would only have their Faction Box plus rotation cards. There are ways to solve it, but rotation doesn't really address it.
nuFaction boxes may have more cards than the base set+core does for other clans..?
10 hours ago, Laurence J Sinclair said:nuFaction boxes may have more cards than the base set+core does for other clans..?
FFG doesn't do that. They like uniformity with the deluxes.