Soo.....why exactly are people so sour about the Raider's survivability against ships that are double -or triple- it's weight class? An ISD can one-shot a CR90 as well if you drive it nose to nose at it, but that doesn't make corvettes bad.

Bump up the blue dice capabilities of your Raider, and go after corvettes, or harry the flanks or rear or a Neb-B, and they can work just fine. I have two Raiders from early on, and sometimes feel like I out to try running them as a pair for such things, like I do CR90's in my Rebel fleet.

The trick with Raiders is that you know they'll get a heavy beating because two of its three tokens are working only on long range while it can fire only at close-medium range. Getting a guaranteed beating is psychologically hard, people are afraid that their raider will be caught in a lucky shod and be blown away.

Raider with flight commander, rapid launch bays, and boba fett.

Move, drop boba, boba does a damage, then shoots.

It would be fun!

....What?

22 minutes ago, Crabbok said:

Raider with flight commander, rapid launch bays, and boba fett.

Move, drop boba, boba does a damage, then shoots.

It would be fun!

Wow that is horrifying. Imagine that in a movie as well. An Imperial Raider emerges from hyperspace into a swarm of rebel fighters and then the Slave 1 just detaches from the bottom full firepower.

Throw in Impetuous and Kallus for the anti squadron firepower and you've got a fairly deadly duo here.

40 minutes ago, Crabbok said:

Raider with flight commander, rapid launch bays, and boba fett.

Move, drop boba, boba does a damage, then shoots.

It would be fun!

_If_ Boba does damage while being deployed from RLB. I'm not positive on that. However, delivering Jonus this way is pretty solid.

Didn't the FAQ covered this question about RLB? Placing doesn't count as an activation?

28 minutes ago, pt106 said:

_If_ Boba does damage while being deployed from RLB. I'm not positive on that. However, delivering Jonus this way is pretty solid.

Yeah the FAQ clarified that you place the squadron - THEN begin it's activation - (and in this activation it cannot move). SO Boba absolutely works this way. Raiders with Boba is my jam and I'm totally doing this.

7 hours ago, AegisGrimm said:

Soo.....why exactly are people so sour about the Raider's survivability against ships that are double -or triple- it's weight class? An ISD can one-shot a CR90 as well if you drive it nose to nose at it, but that doesn't make corvettes bad.

Bump up the blue dice capabilities of your Raider, and go after corvettes, or harry the flanks or rear or a Neb-B, and they can work just fine. I have two Raiders from early on, and sometimes feel like I out to try running them as a pair for such things, like I do CR90's in my Rebel fleet.

Because a corvette doesnt have to come into range where its defense tokens are nearly worthless in order to use its firepower. Which means it can trade shots at range without taking significant damage and use its speed to stay out of the heavy arcs.

The Raider has to get into knife fighting range, against foes with strong broadsides when doing the classic matchup, and in that case it has.... a brace. Which sure, chops damage in half... but leaves you with no way to mitigate crits or split ram damage from the incoming damage etc like the corvette can.

The Corvette is far more survivable because its role is different.

1 hour ago, Crabbok said:

Raider with flight commander, rapid launch bays, and boba fett.

Move, drop boba, boba does a damage, then shoots.

It would be fun!

Next round better than then .

But yes. Interesting combos. Ciena and Instigator is another example.

Move into a Rhymer ball and engage with Ciena.

If your opponent place his squadrons all together in order to provide intel an minimize Ciena's engagements, you can shoot every enemy squadron with FC+OE.

If your opponent scatter his squadrons to save some bombers (basically placing them arounf 3+ firing arcs) from shots, he will maximize Ciena's engagements.

32 minutes ago, Grey Mage said:

Because a corvette doesnt have to come into range where its defense tokens are nearly worthless in order to use its firepower. Which means it can trade shots at range without taking significant damage and use its speed to stay out of the heavy arcs.

The Raider has to get into knife fighting range, against foes with strong broadsides when doing the classic matchup, and in that case it has.... a brace. Which sure, chops damage in half... but leaves you with no way to mitigate crits or split ram damage from the incoming damage etc like the corvette can.

The Corvette is far more survivable because its role is different.

I've seen success with Raiders either using Jerry (extreme turn capabilities, allow you to go speed 4 and swing wide to park yourself in the rear arc of large ships for a double-arc the next turn or Ozzel (speed 2 extreme turn, use your activation advantage to catch a ship moving into black range, shoot, jump to speed 4 ).

So yes - stay out of the big arcs of the ships that can quickly kill you. But as an Imp you have two really useful Admirals that help with that. A Raider parked in the front arc of a Assault Frigate can more than survive a turn or two.

1 hour ago, IronCondor said:

So yes - stay out of the big arcs of the ships that can quickly kill you. But as an Imp you have three really useful Admirals that help with that.

FTFY Motti is also pretty good in bumping up Raider survivability. For example a front arc shot from run-of-the-mill Leading Shots ISD2 will one-shot a regular Raider 60% of the time, however with Motti this number drops to 33% (this calculation does not take into account the possibility of getting a direct hit though).

I feel like cluster bombs could be a nice addition to a raider via Tua. Throw in ordinance experts and flechettes. Have another raider with Flight commander roll in and drop mithril or Boba after

3 hours ago, ovinomanc3r said:

Next round better than then .

Naw man, Boba would shoot right away. He doesn't wait until next round. the FAQ clearly states this.

3 minutes ago, Crabbok said:

Naw man, Boba would shoot right away. He doesn't wait until next round. the FAQ clearly states this.

Oops I though you referred to raider's shot

On the other hand there are about 10+ new pages written that proof that the FAQ states this but not so clearly.

The clear part is that the squadron can attack if activated this way.

The REST of it is unclear - like if you deploy all your squadrons but then go and activate separate squadrons. I don't think there is any gray area about weather or not Boba in this case, would A) Activate, and B) shoot.

Boba Fett would still activate and shoot.

It doesn't really change that Rapid Launch Bays on a Raider is probably a terrible idea.

1 hour ago, pt106 said:

FTFY Motti is also pretty good in bumping up Raider survivability. For example a front arc shot from run-of-the-mill Leading Shots ISD2 will one-shot a regular Raider 60% of the time, however with Motti this number drops to 33% (this calculation does not take into account the possibility of getting a direct hit though).

Agreed. Lasting through just one turn of damage and surviving for the rest of the game is sometimes all that's needed to eek out a good Margin of Victory.

2 minutes ago, Snipafist said:

Boba Fett would still activate and shoot.

It doesn't really change that Rapid Launch Bays on a Raider is probably a terrible idea.

Terrible is SUCH a strong word. He wouldn't seem optimal in most tournament builds, but I think it'd be awesome for fun builds - and it would be especially useful against tough squadrons - or even flotillas, since them taking a damage from Boba is going to be a big deal for any ship with only 4 shields total.

Just now, Crabbok said:

Terrible is SUCH a strong word. He wouldn't seem optimal in most tournament builds, but I think it'd be awesome for fun builds - and it would be especially useful against tough squadrons - or even flotillas, since them taking a damage from Boba is going to be a big deal for any ship with only 4 shields total.

Well okay let's go with "it isn't optimal but it could be fun." I'm willing to grant that.

7 hours ago, pt106 said:

FTFY Motti is also pretty good in bumping up Raider survivability. For example a front arc shot from run-of-the-mill Leading Shots ISD2 will one-shot a regular Raider 60% of the time, however with Motti this number drops to 33% (this calculation does not take into account the possibility of getting a direct hit though).

Can confirm, Motti Raider s give my regular opponent fits. Especially when I start using them as semi-disposable APT carriers and ramming his corvettes and Nebulons with prejudice. The blasted thing is an oversized lawn dart with a rocket engine strapped on. May as well use it like one and stab a turbolaser or two out.

EDIT: Still haven't fully repeated the trick, but it's also lethal against MC30s that wander into range when sent in pairs. You just have to be extremely precise flying them, lest he blow both of them away when you miss your approach by * that * much.

I've also found I like them more with Motti than I would've originally thought. Once a Raider has a zero-shield hull zone and 2 hull points remaining, it's usually ready to get popped. With Motti around you can prolong the Raider's life by usually one extra attack due to that. I wasn't a believer in that theoretically, but practically I saw it happening pretty consistently.

Plus if you're rolling Motti with heavier ships they're always happy to have cheap activation maneuverable picket ships around that can provide some serious flak.

18 hours ago, IronCondor said:

I've seen success with Raiders either using Jerry (extreme turn capabilities, allow you to go speed 4 and swing wide to park yourself in the rear arc of large ships for a double-arc the next turn or Ozzel (speed 2 extreme turn, use your activation advantage to catch a ship moving into black range, shoot, jump to speed 4 ).

So yes - stay out of the big arcs of the ships that can quickly kill you. But as an Imp you have two really useful Admirals that help with that. A Raider parked in the front arc of a Assault Frigate can more than survive a turn or two.

Sure, and Im not saying they are hopeless by any means, but they *are* fragile, and I feel that assertion that because a long range skirmisher like the Corvette A is survivable that the Raider is just as survivable.

And while Ozzel and Jerry surely do help, Im not convinced the raider is worth building a list around to the point of choosing an admiral just for them. So that religates its use to 'sometimes with Jerry and his Vics/Arqs since you had the points' instead of as a key component of ones list. At this point Ozzel and I just dont get along- the ability to double your speed change in a fleet that has top speed issues at times is.... underwhelming.

I've found the closer I keep my Raider to my larger ships the more success I have with hit. It has an awesome maneuverability at Speed 2 and does well flying beside or just behind my main ships. Then it is able to use a token and/or a nav dial to boost to speed 4 and get out of trouble as needed. Once I stopped trying to fly them like a CR-90 I started having more success. I make sure to not lead with it in any way and they frequently get ignored as my opponent is already shooting at my Star Destroyers.

1 hour ago, Grey Mage said:

Ozzel and I just dont get along- the ability to double your speed change in a fleet that has top speed issues at times is.... underwhelming.

Them's fightin' words 'round these parts, son!

Seriously, though, I wasn't an Ozzel believer until a few months ago. You need a fleet that likes the extra speed change but when used well it's quite good. Raiders, Gladiators, Gozantis, and to a lesser extent Arquitens and ISDs like that Ozzel effect. You need to play around with your speeds a bit differently than normal to really get mileage out of it.