In the list building forum, and a lot of the painting posts I see it looks like the large majority of people are playing undead. Is this clearly the majority faction atm? It def seems really strong with the only ranged option fieldable currently and blight really helping defend etc.

wondering how skewed it is between the two factions...

I'm playing Waiqar out of the simple fact that right now it's a challenge. When I first got the game I fully intended to play Daqan, which I probably will at some point, but when I actually played Daqan was way too easy so I chose Waiqar, again out of challenge.

That's interesting cause it seems to me (having only played 4 games so far) that waiqar have a slight edge ATM on the power curve compaired to daqan which is why I'm playing daqan cause the games I played as waiqar seemed lopsided in my favor lol

also I like elves and want to rock those when they come out and use a unit with my daqan

I've seen a very even mix in my FLGS so far, with only a small amount devoting themselves to one army. Most people are collecting both and waiting to see how it pans out.

At the moment I think balance is pretty hard to decide.
With only 2 factions out and only the cores worth of options its really hard to give a definite ruling.

It will be quite a while before we get anything approaching evidence in regards to whether or not one faction ups another. I think its fair to say that at the moment the general skill level is extremely low, the overwhelming majority of people are overlooking rules and playing them incorrectly as we learn about the game. Its at best a very unstable environment on which to base an opinion.

Gut feeling for me though is that the Human army is easier to play and are more likely to win a sort of straight up dice chucking contest which I think most early games amount to. I also believe that in a sub two hundred point game, its too limited to really leverage the advantages of the undead army as you don't really have any redundancy for the synergies. For example once you lose your archers, or lock down a Lancer, many of the synergy actions become unavailable really hurting your army. At 200 points you have more to work with and because of the cheap cost of skeleton units, it actually out paces the human army (aka you will field more on the table than a human player at 200 points).

My sense of it was that with one core set, you really don't get an understanding of the games balance, it seems like its more setup for just learning how to play. Even at 2 core sets your still 30-40 points shy of the full effect and for the Undead that can mean 2 more Lancers for example which is a really big deal for their synergy.

You miss the most important point: undead are always the coolest guys. I always play undead in every game. So why change here? I think they got the greater models too. I think that many people choose in this way not in the meta way (maybe later with more stuff). We had only a few games and they were all close independent of who had won. So ATM I think everything is possible and playable. The meta combinations will come with further waves like in x wing.

Only two games in, but I'm calling it pretty balanced. I read elsewhere that Waiqar are softer or require more careful play, but I'm not sure I agree with either of those. Yes, they have to use blight and to maximize Ardus you have to keep him near something with surge abilities. You can also guarantee an early loss of your archers. But on the Daqan side, you have to figure out how to manage being blighted, how to take out the archers quickly without over-committing resources to them, or accidentally blocking the unit(s) you send after them from re-entering the game after dispatching archers. So I'd say there's complex challenges for both factions.

In my two games, Waiqar won by a slim margin. Game one ended with just Kari and Ardus on the board, each with one wound. Game 2 ended with Kari and Ardus on the board, each with 3 wounds, and a carrion lancer with one wound. Game 2 is closer than it looks though, because Kari failed to do a single wound to Ardus with her last attack of the game. If she had landed that, Ardus would have fallen and it would have swung the game the other direction.

So I'm calling it pretty balanced at the moment.

15 hours ago, Blaied said:

It def seems really strong with the only ranged option fieldable currently and blight really helping defend etc.

Kari, the Daqan hero in the Core set, can perform ranged attacks. With her Brutal ability she has the same threat as the 2-tray unit of Reanimate Archers included in the Core set, plus she gets a reroll thanks to her Precise ability and she rolls blue/white instead of 2 blue and the white die is better.

She also has a very strong special ability that sometimes lets her dish out ranged damage while she carries out melee attacks. Barring mortal strikes, she can withstand more damage than 2 trays of archers as well. So if all we're talking about is one Core set, there's no lack of ranged attack for the Daqan.

Our games have all been 100 point skirmishes while I work on getting the rest painted, but they've all been close. No faction has dominated or won more often yet. The Daqan seem boring when you look at their stat cards but their strength is in their command dials... more options, more defense and lower initiative than the Waiqar.

Archers and blight shenanigans. The humans are pretty much a "point and shoot" faction atm, the core doesnt really give them any interunit synergies and lack of proper range sucks.

But we can tell theres a lot of underlaying mechanics that in the core do next to nothing if anything at all but can easily be fleshed out in the future. Undead might be better right now but that will probably balance out even in wave1 release let alone wave2

Majority of people are probably playing undead for the simple fact that humans are almost ALWAYS considered the "boring and average at everything" race in any game, no real weakness or strength. Even in games where thats not true people still view them that way.

I played the Knights of Falladir in Disk Wars, and I'll be playing Daqan (and probably Uthuk when they come out).

I can't bring myself to play Waiqar because Waiqar was a whiny git in Disk Wars that annoyed me, and he seems to be just as emo now.

Would rather the undead by ruled by Farrenghast and all the cool undead baddies from the First Darkness in Disk Wars.

10 minutes ago, Waywardpaladin said:

I played the Knights of Falladir in Disk Wars, and I'll be playing Daqan (and probably Uthuk when they come out).

I can't bring myself to play Waiqar because Waiqar was a whiny git in Disk Wars that annoyed me, and he seems to be just as emo now.

Would rather the undead by ruled by Farrenghast and all the cool undead baddies from the First Darkness in Disk Wars.

To me, Waiqar Sumarion is to Anakin Skywalker as Waiqar the Betrayer is to Darth Vader. Waiqar and Anakin are whiny and unimpressive, but Darth Vader and Waiqar the Betrayer have some serious intimidation going on.

25 minutes ago, Budgernaut said:

To me, Waiqar Sumarion is to Anakin Skywalker as Waiqar the Betrayer is to Darth Vader. Waiqar and Anakin are whiny and unimpressive, but Darth Vader and Waiqar the Betrayer have some serious intimidation going on.

The lore presents his whole motivation as "My mentor made a big shiny that should have been MINE for all my sacrifices! Gimme gimme! I will **** myself and my men until all the BLING IS MINE!"

And then what? What are his policies and motivations beyond that?

The current Uthuk I think have more understandable motivations even, the victors in the first Darkness did try to genocide their entire ethnicity. There were reasons for that, but it isn't like the Daqan tried to take the children and raise them free of the Ynfernael or anything.

I actually find that strange though, since I got the impression that the Daqann were mostly content to let the Uthuk retreat into the Darklands and it was Waiqar and his men who personally tried to exterminate the remnants. I would think they'd want vengeance against him more than the Baronies, might just be that their Ynfernael patrons try to steer them away from attacking their other catspaw.

1 hour ago, Waywardpaladin said:

I can't bring myself to play Waiqar because Waiqar was a whiny git in Disk Wars that annoyed me, and he seems to be just as emo now.

Just like Kylo Ren! no wonder I love Waiqar so much.

57 minutes ago, Waywardpaladin said:

I actually find that strange though, since I got the impression that the Daqann were mostly content to let the Uthuk retreat into the Darklands and it was Waiqar and his men who personally tried to exterminate the remnants. I would think they'd want vengeance against him more than the Baronies, might just be that their Ynfernael patrons try to steer them away from attacking their other catspaw.

Waiqar did fight for the Daqan back then, so they're guilty by association I guess.

I'm new to the lore, but I have to think they could have set up a little more epic story (and maybe intend to do it someday) where Waiqar's whole goal is to wipe out the Uthuk once and for all and then use the Sky Orb to go fight the Ynfernal on their own turf and kill them off once and for all for what the Uthuk did to him.

At the least, his motivation is basically 'I don't trust anyone else but me with this kind of power'

I'm painting my skeletons first as they're easier for me to start with. Right now I plan on playing both...need to see more of the upcoming stuff before I decide on one or the other

After playing:

The starting match is terribly unbalanced: the Daqan have enormous advantage. Deploying isolated archers against the enemy cavalry is quite of a retarded choice.

In real game Daqan have a terrible tactical advantage: they move longer distances, have generally better iniciativa and therefore, have great choices to outmaneuver the waiqar. Kari's ability is a nightmare.

Waiqar must be reactive and predictive, they must program the movements well to combine powerful blight related skills. If you play wisely you have no disadvantage.

Daqan are easier to play, but if both players are experienced waiqar are even or al least not much worse.

Ardus can easily block the cav charge.

On 4/23/2017 at 4:27 AM, druchii7 said:

After playing:

The starting match is terribly unbalanced: the Daqan have enormous advantage. Deploying isolated archers against the enemy cavalry is quite of a retarded choice.

In real game Daqan have a terrible tactical advantage: they move longer distances, have generally better iniciativa and therefore, have great choices to outmaneuver the waiqar. Kari's ability is a nightmare.

Waiqar must be reactive and predictive, they must program the movements well to combine powerful blight related skills. If you play wisely you have no disadvantage.

Daqan are easier to play, but if both players are experienced waiqar are even or al least not much worse.

The lower initiative charges are a double edged sword in the opening rounds. To close the distance you need to move forward but which can put you close enough to be charged by a unit that activated later in the round.

On 4/21/2017 at 10:09 AM, drkpnthr said:

I'm new to the lore, but I have to think they could have set up a little more epic story (and maybe intend to do it someday) where Waiqar's whole goal is to wipe out the Uthuk once and for all and then use the Sky Orb to go fight the Ynfernal on their own turf and kill them off once and for all for what the Uthuk did to him.

At the least, his motivation is basically 'I don't trust anyone else but me with this kind of power'

The lore book has a bit written by a Scrivener loyal to Waiqar that puts the Betrayer in a better light.

It takes the tact that was, Waiqar thought the Orb was best entrusted to him, but also that Timmoran baited him into a confrontation and then killed his troops. In retaliation Waiqar killed his former mentor, but not before the Orb was scattered.

Now Waiqar seeks to consolidate the Orb into the only hands capable of fully managing its power, his own. The world would be a better place if people just stopped interfering with that for their own selfish ends.

Of course, we unfortunately have been told several times by the third person omniscient that wasn't how it went down.

Would be nice though if it was foggier and you couldn't be really certain if Waiqar is right and Timmoran was just a manipulative jerk that gambled with everyone's lives like chess pieces or if Waiqar was truly the crazed aggressor that stopped Timmoran from cementing a golden era for all.

On 4/20/2017 at 3:31 PM, power500500 said:

I'm playing Waiqar out of the simple fact that right now it's a challenge. When I first got the game I fully intended to play Daqan, which I probably will at some point, but when I actually played Daqan was way too easy so I chose Waiqar, again out of challenge.

At 200 points it is reversed, very clearly

On 4/21/2017 at 3:42 AM, tkundnobody said:

You miss the most important point: undead are always the coolest guys. I always play undead in every game. So why change here? I think they got the greater models too. I think that many people choose in this way not in the meta way (maybe later with more stuff). We had only a few games and they were all close independent of who had won. So ATM I think everything is possible and playable. The meta combinations will come with further waves like in x wing.

This.

Straight up, the undead look 10x funner to paint. Actually, those human guys don't look the least bit interesting to paint.

On 2017-4-24 at 10:29 PM, WWHSD said:

The lower initiative charges are a double edged sword in the opening rounds. To close the distance you need to move forward but which can put you close enough to be charged by a unit that activated later in the round.

Reanimates charge only 2'', archers don't charge... that lets only carrion lancers and ardus as serious movement threat which is far less that the daqan. You can force daqan into agressive play because of your archers and carrion lancers skill, but if daqan is patient, they have enormous advantages to charge where and when they want.

1 minute ago, druchii7 said:

Reanimates charge only 2'', archers don't charge... that lets only carrion lancers and ardus as serious movement threat which is far less that the daqan. You can force daqan into agressive play because of your archers and carrion lancers skill, but if daqan is patient, they have enormous advantages to charge where and when they want.

I think the main thing about the Waiqar is that they don't concern themselves with silly things like trying to charge someone. Its expected that in most circumstances as a result of mobility and Initiative, as a Waiqar player, you are going to be charged the majority of the time and really, this is a fairly minor disadvantage for them. Given their general resistance to fear and their ability to hand it out, they are the masters of prolonged fight.

The advantage in this cat and mouse game that Waiqar have is that they have that "pressure play" thing going for them with Archers and Lancers pushing out blight. It forces the the Daqan player to make his play quickly, else their charges will be rendered useless. There is nothing like the feeling of watching a line of Calvary charge into my archery line and then reminding your opponent "sorry friend, you will not be rolling any dice today". This forced pressure play requires very good positioning and clever tactics on the Waiqar's players part, so its not a freebie, but done right, charges are off little concern or consequence to the Waiqar.

Archers will be a lot better when combat ingenuity gets released, but so far I only scored 3 blights in 3 games, and with those war criers on enemy cavalry it was quite a useless thing. There's statistically low probability to get 2 surges on a 2x1 unit without precission (and even with precission it isn't a great chance), but combat ingenuity will make the difference and will almost grant 1 blight every time you shoot a 2x2 unit, and possibly 2 or more.

The cavalry can easily engage archers without being shot. Just perform a 6'' movement, recieve a panic, but you are 100% blight free and undamaged. on turn 2 you'll have your chance hit in close combat. You only need to delay their deployment till the archers are deployed. If archers are kept more than 6'', the reanimates are not so able to force the enemy into charging. Close combat targeting will mend this situation, that's the big alternative to combat ingenuity.

To sum up, the archers should be one of our strenghts, but they are our weak spot and they'll be untill those training upgrade cards are released.