1 minute ago, kempy said:

No default dying in Challenges/Conflicts.

Right. GoT has it limited to the Military challenge only along with a handful of cards with kill effects based on overwhelming wins.

1 minute ago, Tonbo Karasu said:

So, less than the amount of similarity it has to L5R the CCG.

A someone's mentioned L5R LCG is Frankenstein's monster of FFG games. There are lot of other similiarities to other games like running into face-down Province cards like facechecking in Netrunner, no hand/resource limit like in Conquest, dials like in Conquest, tapping both sides of conflict/challenge like in AGoT etc.

1 minute ago, kempy said:

A someone's mentioned L5R LCG is Frankenstein's Monster of FFG games. There are lot of other similiarities to other games like running into face-down Province cards like facechecking in Netrunner, no hand/resource limit like in Conquest, dials like in Conquest, tapping both sides of conflict/challenge like in AGoT etc.

I don't know if this is a bad thing though. They've taken things that work well in their other games, updated them, and wrapped them in the Fate system which is what makes Nu5R unique. Like I said before, Fate/Fading is going to make or break the game because that is the only system that makes the game truly unique based on what we've seen so far.

To be fair, every single new LCG (or CCG if you count Destiny) has very strong and clear things they took from past FFG products. The company likes to learn from it's mistakes and it's triumphs to try and make a product with new stuff that's also an evolution of everything else they've made. As a fan of their LCGs, I'm always happy with the improvements and new interesting concepts.

BUT, I can see why anyone coming from Old5R would see all these strong influences getting equal impact as the original game it's based on and being disappointed.

My only negativity comes from the unlikelihood of finding anyone nearby to play with.

16 minutes ago, Frimmel said:

My only negativity comes from the unlikelihood of finding anyone nearby to play with.

Where are you based, dude?

I will say from experience that since i've put kempy on ignore list the content is really upbeat and enjoyable. Would recommend.

1 hour ago, JJ48 said:

I've never played A Game of Thrones LCG. Is it really pretty much identical to what we've seen so far, or are there just a few similarities?

I mean, Star Wars LCG involved adding and removing tokens to effectively remove a character for a couple rounds, so maybe this should be called Ring Wars?

Arkham Horror and Lord of the Rings both have rotating a character 90 degrees to indicate they've done something, so maybe we could refer to it as Rokugan Horror: The Fellowship of the Five Rings?

If you want to be dishonest, suit yourself. I can be too and say that L5R LCG is to L5R CCG as Pokemon CCG is to Magic, both games play with decks of cards... uau!

But if you want to take a breath and step down from that pedestal:

-in AGOT, a Character has up to three icons in its card, each icon representing the type of challenge the character can participate in (Military, Intrigue, Power) and a single Strenght value that is used for any of those challenges
in L5R, a Character has two icons in its card, each representing the type of challenge the character can participate in (Military, Politics) with independent Strenght values for each type

-in AGOT, a player can only initiate 1 challenge per type (unless a card says so)
in L5R, a player can only initiate 1 challenge per type (unless a card says so)

-in AGOT, each challenge type will determine the "prize" to the winning side (MIL: opo sacs a character; INT: opo discards random card; POW: opo "pays" a Power to winner)
in L5R, in each challenge a player can chose a Ring effect and that effect will determine the "prize" to the winning side (similar effects like discarding a card, removing a Fate from a Character and gaining Honor)

-in AGOT, during a Challenge, the losing side will never lose its characters, the characters won't "die" in a losing battle
in L5R, during a Challenge, the losing side will never lose its characters, the characters won't "die" in a losing battle

-in AGOT, each Character that's Unique can't have more than one copy of its card in play; instead, a copy of that card can be played as a duplicate to avoid one "kill" effect
in L5R, each Character that's Unique can't have more than one copy of its card in play; instead, a copy of that card can be discarded to add one Fate token to that character and prolong its life for one more turn


Also, bonus rounds:

-in 40K Conquest, players pick secretly from a dial a number from 1 to whatever to make an effect (moving to a Planet)
in L5R, players pick secretly from a dial a number from 1 to whatever to make an effect (drawing cards - losing Honor or not)

-in A:NR, players open servers with facedown cards that the opo will only know them when successfuly ran those servers
in L5R, players have Provinces with facedown cards that the opo will only know them when successfuly battle in those Provinces

-in A:NR, each card has a number of pips representing the Influence that card costs to be played in a deck out of its faction
in L5R, Conflict cards have bamboos representing Influence that card costs to be played in a deck out of its faction

-in A:NR, each player will have an Identity that will tell how much Influence that player can spend in out-of-faction cards to be played in the deck
in L5R, each player will have a Stronghold that will tell how much Influence that player can spend in out-of-faction cards to be played in the deck


So, in sum, nope... I guess L5R retained a lot of its original identity!

4 minutes ago, oDESGOSTO said:

[snip]

Why is any of that bad though? Old5R by lots of people's estimation was in shambles by the time Ivory rolled around. I don't see anything wrong with FFG, namely Nate and Brad, taking what they learned working on other games and transferring it over to this new game.

16 minutes ago, Dovla said:

I will say from experience that since i've put kempy on ignore list the content is really upbeat and enjoyable. Would recommend.

Stay cool in your dreamland then.

20 minutes ago, Hinomura said:

Where are you based, dude?

About an hour SW out of Pittsburgh.

18 minutes ago, Dovla said:

I will say from experience that since i've put kempy on ignore list the content is really upbeat and enjoyable. Would recommend.

Just because he has negative things to say doesn't mean that all of those things are wrong or don't need to be said.

1 minute ago, Danwarr said:

Why is any of that bad though? Old5R by lots of people's estimation was in shambles by the time Ivory rolled around. I don't see anything wrong with FFG, namely Nate and Brad, taking what they learned working on other games and transferring it over to this new game.

Why is it bad?! Well, as I said in my review of 40K Conquest, I would like to play a distinct game and not a mix and matched of all-best-times-LCGs.
When Conquest came out it looked and felt like a compilation of LCG mechanics pasted into a theme. That, for me, is bad. It shows lack of design talent from game designers. It's the same as Eric Lang's game from the past 2 years, when the guy was being milked left and right and made similar games with minor nuances and different themes.

Or in other words, why will I play Star Trek Attack Wing when I can play X-Wing?! Only for a matter of theme? That's all.

shame, I am sure the L5R LCG will miss you.

5 minutes ago, oDESGOSTO said:

Why is it bad?! Well, as I said in my review of 40K Conquest, I would like to play a distinct game and not a mix and matched of all-best-times-LCGs.
When Conquest came out it looked and felt like a compilation of LCG mechanics pasted into a theme. That, for me, is bad. It shows lack of design talent from game designers. It's the same as Eric Lang's game from the past 2 years, when the guy was being milked left and right and made similar games with minor nuances and different themes.

Or in other words, why will I play Star Trek Attack Wing when I can play X-Wing?! Only for a matter of theme? That's all.

Why do you keep ignoring the Fate system though? That is the wholly unique aspect of the game. All of the residual mechanisms are just things that work well in other LCGs or existed in Old5R.

Nu5R is not just pasted on theme. FFG carried over some things that made the original game unique, the two decks, mixed in some things they learned from other LCGs, and added the Fate system. If that isn't new enough for you I don't know what to say. There is no reason for designers to reinvent the wheel on mechanisms that work simply to be different.

40k Conquest had some other issues for me, namely not being able to choose the First Planet, but I never felt like the mechanism were bad because they were similar.

1 minute ago, Danwarr said:

Why do you keep ignoring the Fate system though? That is the wholly unique aspect of the game. All of the residual mechanisms are just things that work well in other LCGs.

40k Conquest had some other issues for me, namely not being able to choose the First Planet, but I never felt like the mechanism were bad because they were similar.

Nu5R is not just pasted on theme. FFG carried over some things that made the original game unique, the two decks, mixed in some things they learned from other LCGs, and added the Fate system. If that isn't new enough for you I don't know what to say. There is no reason for designers to reinvent the wheel on mechanisms that work simply to be different.

That's the key sentence!
So why did the designers had to do so much in this game when they could do a straight port like Netrunner -> Android: Netrunner?! -that's the 1M dollar question because it was asked in AMA but not replied!

Also, the Fate system is a gimmick like the dial. You're praising it as it's something really good when M:TG already had it for 2 times and it didn't stuck.
The Fate system is nice to have in some characters, not in all.

But, and as being my catchphrase in these boards, time will tell.

Just now, oDESGOSTO said:

That's the key sentence!
So why did the designers had to do so much in this game when they could do a straight port like Netrunner -> Android: Netrunner?! -that's the 1M dollar question because it was asked in AMA but not replied!

Also, the Fate system is a gimmick like the dial. You're praising it as it's something really good when M:TG already had it for 2 times and it didn't stuck.
The Fate system is nice to have in some characters, not in all.

But, and as being my catchphrase in these boards, time will tell.

1. Because Old5R was broken and long time players stopped playing? Most people admit it needed a reboot. Netrunner to ANR wasn't a straight port either. They tweaked a lot of things to make the game modern and appealing to people.

2. Fate isn't just a gimmick in this game. Nate was very clear that it was core to the entire design philosophy in the interview. It didn't stick in MTG because it wasn't well done in MTG. In this game you control exactly how much time you would like to for a character to spend on the board as opposed to in MTG where it was predetermined. This is a player choice and given that the Fate resources are limited it is probably going to be an important one. I don't know if it is going to work, but I do think it's certainly interesting because basically no other xCG has evolving board state like that as far as I know.

2 hours ago, oDESGOSTO said:

I speak for myself and I have an opinion about this game, and as subjective as opinions may be, this one is my own, based in my own judgements and not blindfolded by hype or the amount of time waiting for a game to come out. And I think many of those who are overoptimistic are just being dragged by the hype-train or just too eager to play a game that was put on hold for almost 2 years.
It's a matter of liking it or not, not a matter of being right or wrong.

Says he's only got an opinion, doesn't matter if you're right or wrong.

Then says other people only are excited about a game because they're "overoptimistic" or are "just being dragged by the hype-train", while he, of course, is not "blindfolded by hype".

Uh-huh. Pull the other one, it's got bells on.

1 minute ago, Danwarr said:

Netrunner to ANR wasn't a straight port either. They tweaked a lot of things to make the game modern and appealing to people.

You didn't played Classic Netrunner then...

The only mechanical tweak was the Trace mechanic. All the rest of the game remained the same.
Theme-wise and aesthetically, yes, it was worked a lot. But the game itself not. Sorry.

As for the rest, sorry but I will not waste my time over the Fate mechanic.
Maybe when the game is out and players will start complaining about this mechanic as Nate French also said in the interview it could happen, I'll come by to talk a bit about it!

1 hour ago, JJ48 said:

I've never played A Game of Thrones LCG. Is it really pretty much identical to what we've seen so far, or are there just a few similarities?

I mean, Star Wars LCG involved adding and removing tokens to effectively remove a character for a couple rounds, so maybe this should be called Ring Wars?

Arkham Horror and Lord of the Rings both have rotating a character 90 degrees to indicate they've done something, so maybe we could refer to it as Rokugan Horror: The Fellowship of the Five Rings?

Holy cow! Now I want to play 40K Rokugan Horror: The Fellowship of the Throne Wars!

21 minutes ago, oDESGOSTO said:

Why is it bad?! Well, as I said in my review of 40K Conquest, I would like to play a distinct game and not a mix and matched of all-best-times-LCGs.
When Conquest came out it looked and felt like a compilation of LCG mechanics pasted into a theme. That, for me, is bad. It shows lack of design talent from game designers. It's the same as Eric Lang's game from the past 2 years, when the guy was being milked left and right and made similar games with minor nuances and different themes.

Or in other words, why will I play Star Trek Attack Wing when I can play X-Wing?! Only for a matter of theme? That's all.

Theme matters a great deal for things like this. If this system weren't L5R I likely wouldn't have given it much more than a passing glance. There is a reason these companies fork over the loot for licenses to IPs.

1 minute ago, Frimmel said:

Theme matters a great deal for things like this. If this system weren't L5R I likely wouldn't have given it much more than a passing glance. There is a reason these companies fork over the loot for licenses to IPs.

Can't agree more!!
That's why they've made such a lame like Conquest that sold really well when it came out. If it wasn't for the theme, the game would sunk right from the start.

39 minutes ago, oDESGOSTO said:

If you want to be dishonest, suit yourself. I can be too and say that L5R LCG is to L5R CCG as Pokemon CCG is to Magic, both games play with decks of cards... uau!

So you're accusing someone of lying just because they're disagreeing with your preconceived notions of whether a game you've never played will be enjoyable for them to play?

You're not very good at this "argumentation" thing, are you?

18 minutes ago, oDESGOSTO said:

You didn't played Classic Netrunner then...

The only mechanical tweak was the Trace mechanic. All the rest of the game remained the same.
Theme-wise and aesthetically, yes, it was worked a lot. But the game itself not. Sorry.

This is simply not true.

Traces were not the only thing reworked. Richard Garfield practically admits A:NR is a major improvement to his original game in a number of areas.

From a solid list I found.

Quote

• Deck Building + Identities: In Android, identities and factions restrict which cards you can put in your deck, although you can play out-of-faction cards by spending influence. You can only have 3 of each card in your deck (though see below). You also get a buff from your identity, which range widely in effect.

• Traces: Old Netrunner had a blind-auction for traces, with limits on how much each side can bid - Corp by trace limit, runner by links. Android has an open one-bid auction, with the Corp going first but getting free increases equal to the trace, and runner going second but getting free increases equal to their link. Most people agree that traces work much better in Android.

• Bad Publicity: In the old game, this did nothing except if it reached 7, the Corp instantly died. In Android this is free bits to the runner on each run, with no instant-win condition.

• Clearing virus tokens: In the original, the Corp just forgo their next 3 actions. So they could spread the actions across two turns, or clear virus tokens on the runner's turn (even multiple times if they want). In Android the Corp must spend 3 actions, making it harder to do.

• Regions: In the original, regions had to be rezzed upon install. In Android, they still retain their 1-per-server limit, but can be installed unrezzed.

• Agenda points: In the original, an Agenda scored by either side added points equal to it's score. In Android you keep the Agenda card itself. This makes no normal difference, but means that in Android you can't "spend 1 agenda point" for certain effects, you must forfeit a whole "agenda card".

• Unique cards: Some cards (eg Kati Jones / Broker) can only be in play one at a time.

• Mulligan: In Android, you can mulligan for free, if you want. Corp chooses first. In the original, if you had a bad starting hand, well, sucks to be you.

As well as the rule changes, there are lots of design changes in terms of card effects. Eg, Android has no cards with dice roles, damage cards are generally harder to prevent, ice are generally more varied and less End-the-run focused, in particular sentries, and ice of type "trap" exists, there is a lot more focus on interaction and running and less on non-interactive strategies

Again, we'll see how Fate eventually works. I'm personally 50/50 on it.

23 minutes ago, oDESGOSTO said:

Also, the Fate system is a gimmick like the dial. You're praising it as it's something really good when M:TG already had it for 2 times and it didn't stuck.
The Fate system is nice to have in some characters, not in all.

A "gimmick" is not the underlying economic and pacing mechanic for a game.

Fading for Magic: the Gathering was just a set mechanic. It did not replace the lands/mana fundamental card economy. It was not meant to. It was their attempt to find a new hook for a set, which involved you getting underpriced permanents in play with the drawback that they'll go away after a while. Fading, like most set mechanics (grandeur, morbid, morph, metalcraft, and all the dozens of others) are gimmicks -- they're hooks, some cool, some not, to keep players coming back for the next set, to mix up the limited environment, to explore the far shores of card design in a very old and very cumbersome card pool.

Fate is the underlying mechanic of L5R. It's your economy, your pacing system, and forces choices every turn as far as what you want to invest your limited Fate into. A character swarm? Keeping what you think an important character will be around longer? Conflict card plays?

I suppose you could have been further from a working example if you tried, but I'm having trouble thinking of how at this moment in the morning, before my second coffee.