The Kingslayer format was required because one core of Thrones 2.0 couldn't make a normal tourney-legal deck. You took two factions, smooshed all their cards together in a pool, and added the neutral cards, and there you go, a deck of legal size, if not construction. I believe there was enough wiggle room with neutral cards that you could slightly deck build (by leaving out a card or three from one of the factions), but it largely was a deck with one of each in-faction card (except for the in-faction resource producers) and 2 of each neutral. Which, actually, is pretty much the learn to play decks in the box -- they're completely illegal (by normal rules) decks that use a single copy of two factions' cards along with two copies of the neutrals. I'm sure that's why the decks in the back of the Learn to Play book were referenced, as those were exactly the only sort of deck you could make.

As L5R will undoubtedly be single cards of in-clan, with perhaps 2 copies of neutrals, I am expecting a Kingslayer-style construction rules required for the first tournies at GenCon. You'll pick two clans, combine the cards together, add the neutrals, and play.

4 hours ago, Gaffa said:

The Kingslayer format was required because one core of Thrones 2.0 couldn't make a normal tourney-legal deck. You took two factions, smooshed all their cards together in a pool, and added the neutral cards, and there you go, a deck of legal size, if not construction. I believe there was enough wiggle room with neutral cards that you could slightly deck build (by leaving out a card or three from one of the factions), but it largely was a deck with one of each in-faction card (except for the in-faction resource producers) and 2 of each neutral. Which, actually, is pretty much the learn to play decks in the box -- they're completely illegal (by normal rules) decks that use a single copy of two factions' cards along with two copies of the neutrals. I'm sure that's why the decks in the back of the Learn to Play book were referenced, as those were exactly the only sort of deck you could make.

As L5R will undoubtedly be single cards of in-clan, with perhaps 2 copies of neutrals, I am expecting a Kingslayer-style construction rules required for the first tournies at GenCon. You'll pick two clans, combine the cards together, add the neutrals, and play.

Kingslayer deckbuilding rules were: take all cards from 2 factions, add 10 neutral cards, and choose 7 plots. That makes 50 cards, which isn't legal size, since that is 60.

Demo decks divided the 31 neutral cards (not counting the agenda) and 28 plots among 4 decks in a fixed way. 3 of those decks had 48 cards and the 4th one had 47.

The main difference between Kingslayer and LtP is that the former gives you choices in deckbuilding (with neutral cards and plots).

On the other hand, there are 20 cards for each faction, of which 5 to 7 are loyal and 29 usable neutral cards (not counting the agenda or the 4th copy of the economy locations). So you have 20 cards from your main faction, 13-15 from your banner faction and 29 neutral cards, for a total of 62-64 cards. It is, as a matter of fact, just barely possible to build a legal deck with any main faction and any banner faction out of a single AGoT2 Core Set. So the reason FFG used a custom format isn't that you can't make a legal deck out of 1 Core Set, it's because the standard rules don't give you enough choices in deckbuilding.

2 hours ago, Khudzlin said:

Kingslayer deckbuilding rules were: take all cards from 2 factions, add 10 neutral cards, and choose 7 plots. That makes 50 cards, which isn't legal size, since that is 60.

Demo decks divided the 31 neutral cards (not counting the agenda) and 28 plots among 4 decks in a fixed way. 3 of those decks had 48 cards and the 4th one had 47.

The main difference between Kingslayer and LtP is that the former gives you choices in deckbuilding (with neutral cards and plots).

On the other hand, there are 20 cards for each faction, of which 5 to 7 are loyal and 29 usable neutral cards (not counting the agenda or the 4th copy of the economy locations). So you have 20 cards from your main faction, 13-15 from your banner faction and 29 neutral cards, for a total of 62-64 cards. It is, as a matter of fact, just barely possible to build a legal deck with any main faction and any banner faction out of a single AGoT2 Core Set. So the reason FFG used a custom format isn't that you can't make a legal deck out of 1 Core Set, it's because the standard rules don't give you enough choices in deckbuilding.

Thank you! I had forgotten details. Much appreciated.

2 hours ago, Khudzlin said:

Demo decks divided the 31 neutral cards (not counting the agenda) and 28 plots among 4 decks in a fixed way. 3 of those decks had 48 cards and the 4th one had 47.

This is my first time getting into an LCG so forgive my ignorance, but are these "demo" deck decklists provided with the core set? Kind of like a "here's some suggested decks if you don't feel like doing deck building and just want to show the game to some people?" Is that sort of thing standard for LCGs?

2 minutes ago, Suzume Tomonori said:

This is my first time getting into an LCG so forgive my ignorance, but are these "demo" deck decklists provided with the core set? Kind of like a "here's some suggested decks if you don't feel like doing deck building and just want to show the game to some people?" Is that sort of thing standard for LCGs?

Yep, they are suggested in rulebooks.

After today fiction I would assume that Akodo Arasou is not in the set and Akodo Toturi will be the Lion Clan Champion.

4 hours ago, Yandia said:

After today fiction I would assume that Akodo Arasou is not in the set and Akodo Toturi will be the Lion Clan Champion.

Arasou dying before release but still being a card in the set isn't breaking any new ground for L5R. Ide Bantu was killed in a fiction shortly after his card was previewed but definitely before it was released.

I'd prefer not to have an Arasou card - you'd have two Clan Champion cards for Lion so early in the game.

Unless they make Arasou Champ and Toturi some named chump with his Champ card coming later, but I'd still prefer Champ Toturi

From the fiction it is very clear that Toturi will have the Champion trait and I don't think they will print two Champions for the Lion. Actually I would go a step further and assume that all Champions will be drawn by Ignatius Tan.

That would be neat but I doubt it. If I am not mistaken, we already know the art of Shoju, Yokuni, Kisada and Altansarnai. They are different from Hotaru and Toturi.

But I expect (and hope) that Kachiko will have the same style art.

15 minutes ago, Doji Makoto said:

That would be neat but I doubt it. If I am not mistaken, we already know the art of Shoju, Yokuni, Kisada and Altansarnai. They are different from Hotaru and Toturi.

But I expect (and hope) that Kachiko will have the same style art.

You are right.... I totally forgot that for a moment.

30 minutes ago, Doji Makoto said:

That would be neat but I doubt it. If I am not mistaken, we already know the art of Shoju, Yokuni, Kisada and Altansarnai. They are different from Hotaru and Toturi.

But I expect (and hope) that Kachiko will have the same style art.

We've seen art with them in it, but are we sure its their card art? That could be art they are using for an event or something.

Well, we got confirmation that the Champions will be in the Core set. I would be surprised if they would play bait and switch with any of the the other Champions and we have seen art for all of them except for Shiba Ujimutsu. So it is quite reasonable to assume that this will be their card art.

15 minutes ago, Yandia said:

Well, we got confirmation that the Champions will be in the Core set. I would be surprised if they would play bait and switch with any of the the other Champions and we have seen art for all of them except for Shiba Ujimutsu. So it is quite reasonable to assume that this will be their card art.

I'm not saying they would pull a bait and switch on the champion. I'm just saying that the previewed art may be for a different card then their champion card. Although looking back now on the read more page, that is probably their champion art as there is nothing going on in the background and Hotaru and Toturi both show up there.

I actually think there is a consistent sort of "smoky" effect among all the champion cards we've seen. It's definitely clearer on the ones by Le Vuong, but I think I see it on the other ones as well. I imagine it was part of FFG's design direction.

Updated, with the various new cards, and the knowledge that Toturi is the Lion Champion.

It is not a good image but you can distinguish some characters.

On 9/6/2017 at 4:46 PM, Tonbo Karasu said:

Updated, with the various new cards, and the knowledge that Toturi is the Lion Champion.

Thanks for doing this, it's very helpful.

Do you think every Clan (with the exception of Crab) will gain exactly one Holding?

We have new cards:

Shiba Tsukune *
Utaku Yamino *
Obstinate Recruit (lion character)

And with Tsukune's stat line I would assume that she is the Champion of the Phoenix Clan.

8 hours ago, Eu8L1ch said:

Thanks for doing this, it's very helpful.

Do you think every Clan (with the exception of Crab) will gain exactly one Holding?

Probably, but there's enough uncertainty that I'm giving cards like the Champions a range of numbers.

44 minutes ago, Yandia said:

We have new cards:

Shiba Tsukune *
Utaku Yamino *
Obstinate Recruit (lion character)

And with Tsukune's stat line I would assume that she is the Champion of the Phoenix Clan.

I have stuck them onto my spreadsheet, but not updated the op yet.

I also am not convinced that Tsukune is champion. None of the other cards shown are major characters, and the fans have not had anything spoiling as much as that yet.

50 minutes ago, Tonbo Karasu said:

I have stuck them onto my spreadsheet, but not updated the op yet.

I also am not convinced that Tsukune is champion. None of the other cards shown are major characters, and the fans have not had anything spoiling as much as that yet.

She would be a very powerful non-champion with 4/4 for 5. Her art also has this cloud motive going on and Shiba Ujimutsu has no art yet. So I would guess this is a similar situation as with Akodo Arasou and Akodo Toturi.

47 minutes ago, Yandia said:

She would be a very powerful non-champion with 4/4 for 5. Her art also has this cloud motive going on and Shiba Ujimutsu has no art yet. So I would guess this is a similar situation as with Akodo Arasou and Akodo Toturi.

You would think they wouldn't try the same trick twice.

28 minutes ago, Kuni Katsuyoshi said:

You would think they wouldn't try the same trick twice.

Oh I can imagine allot of different scenarios how to hand over the clan championship to ones successor without being shot twice by Hotaru.

It also would bring the male to female clan champion ratio closer to one.

1 minute ago, Yandia said:

Oh I can imagine allot of different scenarios how to hand over the clan championship to ones successor without being shot twice by Hotaru.

It also would bring the male to female clan champion ratio closer to one.

Since I wrote that I also came up with a basic story scenario that would both do the job AND be cool.

Tell whole thing from Ujimitsu's perspective.

when dies doing something heroic at the end (though NOT killing a tainted Phoenix to make Shiba Gunichi happy)

the soul of Shiba with Ujimitsu now a part of it , passes to Tsukune.

at least thats the direction I would take