4 minutes ago, Sybreed said:

I started playing Imps and the Vic seems like a nice middle ground ship but... the lack of speed 3, the lack of turning capacity, the lack of good defense tokens. Ugh, it's hard to like the ship as it is. Do people who play the VSD-1 actually get many black range shots?

That's the reason I never play Vic I. I have no issue cutting across the front arc since it's only 3 reds at long and medium. Granted, if they catch you at close you're probably dead.

And the high point cost means it's easy to be on the low side of activations.

In the current meta, VSD are a bit too easy to destroy.

If they were faster they might be able to deliver some damage before their doom. The low speed really is a killer.

2 minutes ago, Democratus said:

In the current meta, VSD are a bit too easy to destroy.

If they were faster they might be able to deliver some damage before their doom. The low speed really is a killer.

yeah... I was playing a Ackbar list with 2 AFs and Home One against a 2 VSD-1 list. By turn 3 the game was over and I won 10-1.

Ha, all you scrubs using SA. Real VSDs use Slaved Turrets.

3 minutes ago, ianediger said:

Ha, all you scrubs using SA. Real VSDs use Slaved Turrets.

What about GT? Then you can anti-squad out the front too.

12 minutes ago, Undeadguy said:

What about GT? Then you can anti-squad out the front too.

My full sniper-vic is:

VSD-I

Vet Gunners

Tactical Experts

Slaved Turrets

With Moffy J somewhere.

Season to taste.

I've had success running two with a brawler ISD to soften up the larger ships for the VSDs. Use an Instigator raider and some ties to be used as ablative armor against squads.

9 minutes ago, ianediger said:

My full sniper-vic is:

VSD-I

Vet Gunners

Tactical Experts

Slaved Turrets

With Moffy J somewhere.

Season to taste.

I've had success running two with a brawler ISD to soften up the larger ships for the VSDs. Use an Instigator raider and some ties to be used as ablative armor against squads.

I like that build.

wait, Tactival experts actually have a use?

4 minutes ago, Sybreed said:

wait, Tactival experts actually have a use?

On higher command value ships, arguably they do.

Makes me wonder though:

MC30 Scout Frigates

Ackbar

enchanced armament

tactical experts

gunnery team

6 reds per attack out the side, whenever you want

I like to use vics as a trailer ship or a carrier. How I outfit them depends on role and the rest of the fleet. I pretty much always just run the 1 variant.

Vader fleet- Spinals. Possibly Tua/ECM. APT's if floating in points for some reason.

Jerry- Spinals/VG or DTT's.

If carrier- Flight Controllers and Boosted Comms. Possibly but rarely FC, FC, Exp hangers

I have had a lot of success with VSD1 and spinals, nothing else on it.

People tend to underestimate the poor little slow, plodding VSD until they find themselves having to navigate into the close-range front or double arc to avoid a bigger perceived threat. In my first CC campaign I had the most kills with my VSD. My opponents would do somersaults to avoid demo and ISD and find themselves in front of the VSD all the time and that thing would wreck. Basically I just set Nav Nav CF CF CF CF. Bank a nav token, decide on a trajectory and just keep popping 5 reds until something reluctantly got into close range and got vapourized.

Why SA instead of slaved? Often a pesky ship gets behind you, with the CF spam you are still throwing 4 reds from rear arc, also the art of the double arc, baby. the few points difference is not worth sacrificing the juicy double arc potential.

7 hours ago, Artifixprime said:

JJ + Spinal on a VSD2 has worked quite well for me. *Almost* ISD2 firepower

Why the points for VSD2? Such a spendy ship to start from, and even with JJ, either VSD is moving and turning slow enough that few people get in close/medium range of them.

Might as well just take a VSD1, and spam CF with the Spinals and be happy with your 5-red-dice. (FWIW, I have taken to bringing along a Defense Liaison and dropping a couple tokens in first two rounds for him to work from, given CF spam the rest of the time. Cheap enough he's easy to fit into the list, and can really help in a pinch - but the net-net is it keeps the overall price for the thing low enough.)

It's hard to argue, even with that build, that you wouldn't be better fitting out a Demo for the points to use as your 'shooter', though...

I'll echo sentiments about area control: it is like a moving wall- you cant expect them to pounce. Think about where you want the fight to happen and punish your opponent for not fighting there (objectives and obstacle deployment are more important than upgrades for vics). I think parkdaddy's engagement area development post is worth a look here.

I like running my vsd-i's nekkid: its a bargain for the hull and dice. If you want a pouncer go with demolisher or an isd-i.

i get your salt about squadrons, so here's some friendly advice that I hope you wont take with offense:

If you have an opponent running so many bombers, I think a pretty firm counter is mauler mithel, howlrunner, jendon/stele, and a bunch of tie/adv with chirpy pushing off relay on a gonzo. I like running rebel bombers and my number one fear is a well-played mauler shuffle. The best part is abusing relay/flotillas to keep your ships far away from the bombers: point for point rebel fighters are worse in the squadron fight. If your opponent is taking y's and b's, you can definitely come out on top of that exchange. If your opponent is taking 8 x-wings, then their bombing isnt as worrisome (but you should still be able to win the squad fight with even just 2 good procs of mauler). Also, vs bombers, speed zero for a couple rounds can really save your bacon vs reikan. Zombies cant shoot whats out of range.

4 hours ago, Sybreed said:

I started playing Imps and the Vic seems like a nice middle ground ship but... the lack of speed 3, the lack of turning capacity, the lack of good defense tokens. Ugh, it's hard to like the ship as it is. Do people who play the VSD-1 actually get many black range shots?

If you want black range shots, you can't be shy with your VSD-I's. You have to run at speed 2 most (if not all) rounds.

3 minutes ago, SoonerTed said:

If you want black range shots, you can't be shy with your VSD-I's. You have to run at speed 2 most (if not all) rounds.

so, a Def liaison and spamming CF seems like a plan then

Just now, Sybreed said:

so, a Def liaison and spamming CF seems like a plan then

JerJerrod helps considerably. You need a combination of Nav commands and Squad commands.

15 minutes ago, DUR said:

I like running my vsd-i's nekkid: its a bargain for the hull and dice. If you want a pouncer go with demolisher or an isd-i.

My preference for VSD-Is is also naked, especially if Captain Jonus is around. Without Jonus I sometimes splurge on an Intel Officer to help their attacks "stick" better.

With Jerry you can upgrade them a bit more if you like because you're more likely to be able to maneuver them to where those upgrades do more good for more of the game. With that said, Spinals+Gunnery Teams on a VSD-I can do fine with him.

In general I see VSDs as a tremendous amount of stats (hull, shields, dice) for their cost but you need to always keep the poor nav chart in mind and navigate frequently and use them as area control/punishment; the more you upgrade them the less cost-effective they become.

6 minutes ago, SoonerTed said:

If you want black range shots, you can't be shy with your VSD-I's. You have to run at speed 2 most (if not all) rounds.

In my experience, trying to get proactive use from VSD-I black dice is difficult against all but newer opponents. The black dice are mostly a deterrent from getting too close, and that's generally fine. You can set them up to "catch" enemy ships that have nowhere better to go and that's when those black dice can get ugly. If you want to get regular use from black dice, I'd recommend a Gladiator or Raider instead.

2 minutes ago, Snipafist said:

In my experience, trying to get proactive use from VSD-I black dice is difficult against all but newer opponents. The black dice are mostly a deterrent from getting too close, and that's generally fine. You can set them up to "catch" enemy ships that have nowhere better to go and that's when those black dice can get ugly. If you want to get regular use from black dice, I'd recommend a Gladiator or Raider instead.

I never said it was easy I put ACMs on my VSD-Is and try and keep them in formation to get the maximum punch out of them. I have had success pointing them at the enemy carriers/flotillas, forcing the squads outside the range of the ships commanding them - the ships fled from the VSDs.

5 hours ago, Undeadguy said:

Dual Vic II - SFO+GT+SA+LS

I used to run a Fireball with that and Motti. 1 BCC. It was very effective against anything other than MM. Run Navs and Squads and use SFO to get what you need at the right time. I almost placed 2nd with it at the NC Regionals, but I lost my flagship in the last round to a Raider. Dropped a 10-1 to a 6-5 I believe.

It's probably weak against the current Ackbar builds that run 5-6 activations. Not sure how it would do against dedicated anti-squadron either. But the ship itself is solid. I'd probably run it with JJ so I can always threaten with the front arc.

What I find best with the Vic is to run bombers to strip shields and then have my battery push the damage through.

Exactly what Ackbar builds run 5-6 ships?? Cr90 Akbar spam? TRc

34 minutes ago, DUR said:

I'll echo sentiments about area control: it is like a moving wall- you cant expect them to pounce. Think about where you want the fight to happen and punish your opponent for not fighting there (objectives and obstacle deployment are more important than upgrades for vics). I think parkdaddy's engagement area development post is worth a look here.

I like running my vsd-i's nekkid: its a bargain for the hull and dice. If you want a pouncer go with demolisher or an isd-i.

i get your salt about squadrons, so here's some friendly advice that I hope you wont take with offense:

If you have an opponent running so many bombers, I think a pretty firm counter is mauler mithel, howlrunner, jendon/stele, and a bunch of tie/adv with chirpy pushing off relay on a gonzo. I like running rebel bombers and my number one fear is a well-played mauler shuffle. The best part is abusing relay/flotillas to keep your ships far away from the bombers: point for point rebel fighters are worse in the squadron fight. If your opponent is taking y's and b's, you can definitely come out on top of that exchange. If your opponent is taking 8 x-wings, then their bombing isnt as worrisome (but you should still be able to win the squad fight with even just 2 good procs of mauler). Also, vs bombers, speed zero for a couple rounds can really save your bacon vs reikan. Zombies cant shoot whats out of range.

I need you to explain a little more for the squadron advice part, can you?
esp the speed zero part.
Btw, you'd take Chirpy instead of Dengar or a Jump?

5 minutes ago, Blail Blerg said:

Exactly what Ackbar builds run 5-6 ships?? Cr90 Akbar spam? TRc

MC80 fully loaded. 180 points.

3 Comms Net flotillas with various officers like Leia and Ahsoka.

2 TRC90s with IO.

Tycho+Shara.

5 minutes ago, Undeadguy said:

MC80 fully loaded. 180 points.

3 Comms Net flotillas with various officers like Leia and Ahsoka.

2 TRC90s with IO.

Tycho+Shara.

Oh. >< okay, I guess I cant run fun things like this cuz of squadrons.

(I have nearly this exact thing but only TRC, no IO, and partial loaded MC80 cuz the bombers blew/tied up my 80 pt squadron escort and killed the mc80 in 1.5 turns. It was really not fun. And now I'm severely regretting playing Armada at all. This is supposed to be fun. What I'm playing right now is anything but fun.)

4 minutes ago, Blail Blerg said:

Oh. >< okay, I guess I cant run fun things like this cuz of squadrons.

(I have nearly this exact thing but only TRC, no IO, and partial loaded MC80 cuz the bombers blew/tied up my 80 pt squadron escort and killed the mc80 in 1.5 turns. It was really not fun. And now I'm severely regretting playing Armada at all. This is supposed to be fun. What I'm playing right now is anything but fun.)

I'm surprised the bomber wing blew up an 80 points worth of fighter support.

What were you running? In my experience, a 60 points A-Wing squad can mess up a 100 points Bomber squad

VSD-Is are great naked as an area control piece, especially with Vader.

You can also Spam Nav commands and use Tractor Beams to slow someone down enough to hit them with the black dice.

1 minute ago, Blail Blerg said:

Oh. >< okay, I guess I cant run fun things like this cuz of squadrons.

(I have nearly this exact thing but only TRC, no IO, and partial loaded MC80 cuz the bombers blew/tied up my 80 pt squadron escort and killed the mc80 in 1.5 turns. It was really not fun. And now I'm severely regretting playing Armada at all. This is supposed to be fun. What I'm playing right now is anything but fun.)

Have you tried this new strat called "Git Gud"? I hear all the best players do it

But joking aside, that list isn't built to deal with APTs or squads. It wins by going second and farming VPs and running away. SA/GT, CO/FL and what ever blue you want.

Just wait for Sloane to come out and you can poo-poo all over heavy ace lists. They can't survive if they don't have any defense tokens right?