4 minutes ago, McHydesinyourpants said:

That is a rather naive way of looking at it. It is like having a "fair usage" policy on adding janky equipment to your inventory for free You are much better off making away from table rolls with an online roller that everyone can view. It will keep your game more transparent and it will make sure your GM doesn't get fed up with people turning up after crafting "I WIN!" guns.

Could be true, but i've played with the same basic group of people for almost 30 years so if i cant trust them whats even the point And i trust them enough to help get the new players at roughly the same level pretty quickly so everyone can mesh well together. Its not perfect but it works well enough that when i GM i dont have to micro manage and can run the game we all want with only very rare power spikes that have to be compensated for

2 minutes ago, Kamin_Majere said:

Could be true, but i've played with the same basic group of people for almost 30 years so if i cant trust them whats even the point And i trust them enough to help get the new players at roughly the same level pretty quickly so everyone can mesh well together. Its not perfect but it works well enough that when i GM i dont have to micro manage and can run the game we all want with only very rare power spikes that have to be compensated for

I suppose I just hate crafting. I feel like it needs to be regulated severely when it is allowed. Always feels like a power gaming mechanic. It really grinds my gears when players craft "I WIN!" items

4 minutes ago, HistoryGuy said:

He built a vibrosword with a concealed lightsaber. He has the Sentinel source book and assured me it was feasible. However he was explaining it to me and i was thinking about how lightsabers work and the whole time I'm thinking, "This feels wrong somehow."

does the light saber blade evaporate the vibro blade after the first time he uses it? That definitely seems weird unless its the most unbalanced dual bladed weapon in history

2 minutes ago, HistoryGuy said:

He built a vibrosword with a concealed lightsaber. He has the Sentinel source book and assured me it was feasible. However he was explaining it to me and i was thinking about how lightsabers work and the whole time I'm thinking, "This feels wrong somehow."

Players should never be "assuring" there GM about a ruling. Even if it is in the book and it is technically feasible, if you don't like it; if it is dumb -- if it is not something that would fit in your view of your game world then don't allow it. Part of the GM's job is crafting the game world and pretty much everything in it. Your view of things governs what the players can do. If a rule in the book doesn't fit how you view things, then don't allow/use it. In my experience, it helps to discuss your view of the game world with the players so they can get a feel for how you think. It will also help you learn how they think so you can prepare content that your players will want to play and keep them entertained.

10 minutes ago, HistoryGuy said:

He built a vibrosword with a concealed lightsaber. He has the Sentinel source book and assured me it was feasible. However he was explaining it to me and i was thinking about how lightsabers work and the whole time I'm thinking, "This feels wrong somehow."

A lightsaber crystal alone is something that either costs 10k or is gifted (instead of 9k worth of equipment) using knight level exp. I assure you that he cannot build an actual lightsaber. He coudl build a stun saber like this however which is literally a stun 6 baton, no breach or fancy stuff. It is possible to build weapons within one another but it's only possible to use one function at a time.



I think personally you need to sit down and have a frank discussion with him about his playing about. If he is new to roleplaying in general then he might think that gaming the system is OK. One thing that isn't OK is that he's trying to 1 up the gm constantly by diving into the rule books and trying to pull cheese out of thin air in ways that it wasn't intended to work. To the new gm that is frankly awful behaviour that I have no polite way of putting it, but more precisely you should make one thing clear; your duty as a GM is to provide a fun session for everyone and himself and use the system to tell a story, if your having to deviot energy to him constantly trying to one up you while running a game that is frankly unacceptable behavour, everything has to be resolved around a table in a proper manner.

In addition crafting rules are PURELY OPTIONAL SUGGESTIONS like most things within the material. There is nothing that suggests that a DM must use the crafting rules in a given supplement, which is especially true if the DM doesn't own or have access to that supplement.

If he isn't willing to behave then no Edge is better then bad RP and it might be worth calling the thing off for a week just to make a point. He is violating the tables trust and even if he is the host of a flat doesn't necessarily give him special privileges to act like a complete arsehole.

4 minutes ago, HistoryGuy said:

He built a vibrosword with a concealed lightsaber. He has the Sentinel source book and assured me it was feasible. However he was explaining it to me and i was thinking about how lightsabers work and the whole time I'm thinking, "This feels wrong somehow."

Theoretically this IS possible; one of the things you can choose with enough advantage or a triumph is "Built-in" (or whatever its called) which is designed to allow a lightsaber to be hidden inside a common tool or other mundane object; kinda like the Mini-blaster Built into Ezra's lightsaber hilt on Rebels. He's pushing it to have it built-into a vibrosword though...I think there is something there about the Hardpoints it takes up.

Do this, make him list out each attachment and each mod to the attachment in order, figure out the cost and the difficulty for each subsequent modification as well as the cost. Unless he's playing an Armorer then each Mod is 100cr plus 100cr for each additional one past that (sp 100, 200, 300 etc...) . Not to mention the difficulty increases with each additional Modifcation (-2, Minimum of 1 for a Jedi working on his own lightsaber). Do that math on the mods and see if he could afford them...if not, he lied...

Make sure you know what his skill rank is and Int. Unless he is playing a Race that specifies he can have a skill past Rank 2 at Chargen then his repair skill is 2 with maybe an Int of 4 max (5 id he pays 10k for Cyberbrain). Then ask him to list anything he is using to assist him in crafting. At best he shouldn't get more than 3 Boost (Custom Toolkit, Jedi Multi Tool and 1 Assistant Droid)...unless there is a Torgruta in the Party who is willing to help him then he could get up to 4 Boost. And remember if any one modification roll fails, the item can no longer be modified unless he chucks it and starts over form scratch...which will cost more money...

Then, with a firm understanding of the mechanics in mind, make him roll out every item in front of you...every base item, every attachment and every mod for every attachment...if he protests just tell him you are goign to make everyone else do the exact same thing...and stick to that...

Also don't be afraid to throw in some setback (Noisy Neighbors, constant interruptions, barfing pet...etc...)...unless he's an Armor with the "Gearhead" Talent then they will slow his roll quite a bit...8)

55 minutes ago, HistoryGuy said:

He built a vibrosword with a concealed lightsaber. He has the Sentinel source book and assured me it was feasible. However he was explaining it to me and i was thinking about how lightsabers work and the whole time I'm thinking, "This feels wrong somehow."

Har! I would be interested to learn how such a silly weapon worked out! Like a Darth Maul double bladed weapon with one end as a vibroblade and the other end a lightsaber? Or would the lightsaber come out the same end as the vibrosword, and make a light spear of sorts? If it feels wrong its because it sounds absolutely ridiculous.

The way it worked was it has a special sheath. The blade would detach from the hilt then the lightsaber can be activated. The lightsaber can't be activated while the vibroblade is attached.

6 minutes ago, HistoryGuy said:

The way it worked was it has a special sheath. The blade would detach from the hilt then the lightsaber can be activated. The lightsaber can't be activated while the vibroblade is attached.

If I were his GM, I would tell him to shove his vibro-lightsaber back up his "special sheath"

Seriously though, if you are not happy with it tell the player. If he is making rolls without you witnessing them explain to him why that doesn't work for you. If he has an issue with this, then he might not want to be playing your game, he might be happier in a different kind of game that caters for this kind of behaviour.

2 minutes ago, HistoryGuy said:

The way it worked was it has a special sheath. The blade would detach from the hilt then the lightsaber can be activated. The lightsaber can't be activated while the vibroblade is attached.

That's actually quite a neat idea. I personally don't mind that his character was able to build this weapon, my problem is with removing the "game" from the game session. The entire point of pen and paper RPG's is to get together and tell an entertaining story. In this system particularly it's important to engage in describing the outcome of significant dice rolls, IMHO the crafting of an individuals signature weapon is one such moment. The GM should have option to apply Setback or Upgrades, but also be involved in creating the narrative of how such a uniquely personal weapon was created.

1 hour ago, HistoryGuy said:

He built a vibrosword with a concealed lightsaber. He has the Sentinel source book and assured me it was feasible. However he was explaining it to me and i was thinking about how lightsabers work and the whole time I'm thinking, "This feels wrong somehow."

It also says "choose an appropriate item".....your "This feels wrong somehow." comment, pretty much poo poos it.

Regardless this isn't a game system issue, or a mechanics within any game system issue, this is a Princess Snowflake that needs to be told no issue, and that's all.

The effect he's describing is technically doable, but it goes back to the fair and transparent.

Anytime a player shows up saying he rolled at home and got 4 Advantage I get suspicious.

1 hour ago, Ghostofman said:

Anytime a player shows up saying he rolled at home and got 4 Advantage I get suspicious.

Its worse. He's saying he got that and a triumph.

Yeah, invoke Rule 1, GM's word is final, and require all rolls, crafting included, be conducted at the table in the interest of fairness and transparency.

If the lawyer is all rigged and ready then he can make his check and know what to do with the results right away.

This may lead to "I build till I get what I want" so be prepped by getting the game rolling and making note of the build time. If the Death Star is 3 days out Lawyer can't spend 8 days trying to build the perfect suit of reinforced clothing.

Edit: also just a thought, you can further justify the requirement for at table rolling only with the destiny pool and modifier.

The difficulty has a set base, but the Gm is required to finalize the difficulty with setbacks, and adjustments based on conditions, and may spend a d point to upgrade the difficulty. No destiny pool or gm, no rolling. It's a basic mechanical requirement.

I'd ask him to show you the rule, based off the book he's referring to, I'm not sure he technically can have a light saber-vibrator anything. You get either a light saber or a vibro-something.

2 minutes ago, ASCI Blue said:

I'd ask him to show you the rule, based off the book he's referring to, I'm not sure he technically can have a light saber-vibrator anything. You get either a light saber or a vibro-something.

Nah, I checked. With 4 Advantage or a Triumph you can integrate the lightsaber with an Enc 1 device or weapon. It works as one or the other, not both at once, and the final enc is totalled, but it is legal....

And the idea of the detachable blade with Saber in the hilt is rather neat.

(If the image uploads right)

I was looking at how the lightsaber works and found a cross-section. Where exactly does one put the locking mechanism for the vibrosword and not have said mechanism be destroyed when the lightsaber is activated?

26 minutes ago, HistoryGuy said:

(If the image uploads right)

I was looking at how the lightsaber works and found a cross-section. Where exactly does one put the locking mechanism for the vibrosword and not have said mechanism be destroyed when the lightsaber is activated?

I would put a locking ring or thread around the outside if the Emitter, in the crosguard of the sword you have a hole the emitter threads into. Either you draw the sword blade and holy as one, or twist the hilt to release the hilt from the blade and use the Saber leaving the blade inside the scabbard.

The crafting system is unfortunately a hotbed of cheese in this game, and the only real way to reign it in if you play strict to the rules is to stringently enforce the time requirements for crafting and make sure they only craft during the session.

The crafting system is actually really good. People not understanding it can be a problem. They skim it and when talking to the GM leave out the parts they don't like such as "an appropriate item" guess what? the GM is the one that determines if an item is appropriate, not the player. Or when they assume the base difficulty is the only difficulty. Sure the base diff is 2 purple, but do you have proper tools? are you on moving starship? are you under any pressure? does the wookie keep bugging you for a a glass of milk? and so on. Setback dice are a thing, and should be used liberally imo.

At the same time, remeber as a GM if the player has picked a career, specialization, stat priorities, skill priorities, talent priorities, and sunk the time and cost (both in xp, and credits) into being a good crafter, don't **** them around any more than you would someone who did the same to be a badass with a blaster, or a voodoo-hoo-doo with the force. If they are good at something, let them be good at it, doesn't mean make it easy, but don't base the difficulty and/or setback on their dicepool and talents, base it on the task and situation at hand.

But then again i could just be spouting crazy, it's been known to happen from time to time.

I feel this isn't a problem to solve with mechanics. He should roll his dice at the table with the GM present, but what if he does and rolls spectacularly well?Will you be okay with that? If he rolls poorly, how will that play out.

This isn't about the dice results, it is about how the player is engaging the game and your disconnect with that behaviour.

The problem sounds like it is about playing the game in a way everyone can enjoy. It is a player issue and maybe even a play style issue.

Talk to him to get him on the same page as everyone else. Because if you let the dice decide, and dodge the source of the problem, you may end up enabling the behaviour you have challenges with.

8 hours ago, Ghostofman said:

Nah, I checked. With 4 Advantage or a Triumph you can integrate the lightsaber with an Enc 1 device or weapon. It works as one or the other, not both at once, and the final enc is totalled, but it is legal....

Was he crafting the vibrosword or the lightsabre? The options will be different for both, if he was trying to build a lightsabre and then integrate a vibrosword I believe he is out of luck as the vibrosword is not enc 1?

In either case this is a case of making him re-roll...end of story. Roll it in front of your or none of it exists.

On 4/21/2017 at 1:47 AM, Ghostofman said:

The effect he's describing is technically doable, but it goes back to the fair and transparent.

Anytime a player shows up saying he rolled at home and got 4 Advantage I get suspicious...

... Anytime a player shows up saying he rolled at home and got 4 Triumphs I get suspicious...

especially when the player only has 2 yellow dice in the dice pool.