1. The removal of enlightenment: Removing it as a core win condition is a blow to the flavor of the game. If they make a card to make it an alternate win condition, then that makes enlightenment seem gimmicky rather than something worth striving for.
2. Characters just disappearing makes them less like characters and more like fodder. Why should I feel attached to Matsu Gohei when he only stays for such a short time? Making characters disposable removes any emotional attachment and therefore diminishes Clan attachment. Basically, if I don't care about my Clan or characters why am I playing a game based on a story about them?
3. Bidding on hand size every turn. I can't even begin to tell you how much I hate this concept. Cumbersome, unnecessary, slows the game down, I could go on but why it's terrible.
4. This is the same thing UDE just did with Vs. Take a game that works and screw it up to the point where it's unrecognizable. Why?

To sum up as a player that has played since the beginning (have a Lion Mon tattooed on my arm) i have zero desire to even read your rulebook much less waste my time or money on this. Thanks for destroying my favorite game.

Just now, Silverfox13 said:

Each player has the option to declare up to two conflicts during the conflict phase. Players alternate declaring conflicts, and each player can initiate one military conflict and one political conflict. You may even choose to pass your first conflict, waiting to see how your opponent acts, and then commit your full strength to your second conflict later.

That makes our Unicorn preview a tad disappointing. "We broke through our foe's defenses and destroyed their pathetic castle! Now, immediately invite them to dinner!"

10 minutes ago, cielago said:

spider is dead. i say this as a deep spider partisan, but thats over. shadowlands will be very soon, i predict. the preview articles tease it in like four places, so i'm fully confident that'll be the first major expansion, but spider is gone. I'm not even sure we'll get Daigotsu, which is the saddest thing i'll type all day.

Hey, what ever we will get will be OURS! We shall forge the path for the Dark Kami, even if we must cast down every other clan in the process!

Besides, Spider is fine where we left it in the CCG, completely achieving its goal and conquering Rokugan. I feel fine moving on and am excited if we will get Yogo Junzo 2.0 or if we will go a different route!

Shadowlands will always be there, in the hearts and minds of all Rokugan, whether they want it or not

1 minute ago, Iuchi Toshimo said:

That makes our Unicorn preview a tad disappointing. "We broke through our foe's defenses and destroyed their pathetic castle! Now, immediately invite them to dinner!"

"or shame their pathetic samurai in their weakness and defeat and force them to give up their lands, as they are ill suited to defend them"

It does look like the dynasty deck will contain more than characters - we can see much of a Phoenix library card that looks like it increases your card draw by one. That looks like it could be a path to maintaining a decent hand while also running honor.

I also notice that with a slight color shift we now have the spectrum - Red/Scorpion, Orange/Phoenix, Yellow/Lion, Green/Dragon, Blue/Crane, Indigo/Crab, Violet/Unicorn.

2 minutes ago, TheItsyBitsySpider said:

Besides, Spider is fine where we left it in the CCG, completely achieving its goal and conquering Rokugan...

Yeah, but how much opposition could you honestly expect... I mean, the game/story was ending, at that point who cares what the Spider is trying to do... seems like an empty victory to me.

3 hours ago, Toqtamish said:

Ugh, let's head this off now.

They create it this way so that those that want to dip into the game can at a reasonable price, some never go past buying one core set and just use it like a board game. They prefer card variety over quantity. This was completely expected and you do not I repeat DO NOT need a playset to play any card game ever.

Unless it is like conquest where there isn't even enough cards for a legal deck in one core without dipping into other factions.

Just now, Ryric said:

It does look like the dynasty deck will contain more than characters - we can see much of a Phoenix library card that looks like it increases your card draw by one. That looks like it could be a path to maintaining a decent hand while also running honor.

I also notice that with a slight color shift we now have the spectrum - Red/Scorpion, Orange/Phoenix, Yellow/Lion, Green/Dragon, Blue/Crane, Indigo/Crab, Violet/Unicorn.

Holdings will be relevant, the crab are described as being holding based in their introduction.

Just now, Shikaku said:

Yeah, but how much opposition could you honestly expect... I mean, the game/story was ending, at that point who cares what the Spider is trying to do... seems like an empty victory to me.

Empty victory... but victory never the less.....

*Epic music playing in the background*

2 minutes ago, Ryric said:

It does look like the dynasty deck will contain more than characters - we can see much of a Phoenix library card that looks like it increases your card draw by one. That looks like it could be a path to maintaining a decent hand while also running honor.

The Phoenix Library seem to have no card name, it's more likely one of the province cards that remains hidden.

3 minutes ago, Ryric said:

It does look like the dynasty deck will contain more than characters - we can see much of a Phoenix library card that looks like it increases your card draw by one. That looks like it could be a path to maintaining a decent hand while also running honor.

I also notice that with a slight color shift we now have the spectrum - Red/Scorpion, Orange/Phoenix, Yellow/Lion, Green/Dragon, Blue/Crane, Indigo/Crab, Violet/Unicorn.

That could be an attachment from the conflict deck, but you may be right... still, honor running Phoenix... ugh... where are my spells!

3 minutes ago, TheItsyBitsySpider said:

Empty victory... but victory never the less.....

*Epic music playing in the background that no one is around to hear*

fixed...

@Shikaku I firmly believe, that the tricks you'll have in the Conflict deck will be really powerful, so if the player in the lead just draws one per round, he'll not have enough tricks to match the other player's game. I do think that you might have figured out a solid archype for deckbuilding, that revolves around weenies and not drawing too much, but that's just how we roll in these games. We have archtypes, then we have other types to counter them, and by the end of the day some decks will usually be a bit stronger overral than others.

Other than that I am super excited about all the things they spoiled at this point! I have zero background from the previous iteration of this game, but I was a diehard fan of Conquest (Desgosto, man you're just wrong, the game is sick! ) and I get the vibe from this article, that this game might be even better!

None shall stand against the mighty forces of our Magical Phoenix Tea Party Ceremony!

It's neat that you can actually politically attack opponents' provinces now.

Oh good God... I just read Way of the Lion. LOL. T1 6 strength Matsu Beserker... oi...

27 minutes ago, Kakita Shijin said:

Can anyone make sense of how the Honor Dial physically functions? Dice in a sleeve?

Y'all, I figured it out. The image looks like a D6 honor "dial". But it is an ILLUSION. It flat. Regular FF dial.

1 minute ago, retoxidi said:

@Shikaku I firmly believe, that the tricks you'll have in the Conflict deck will be really powerful, so if the player in the lead just draws one per round, he'll not have enough tricks to match the other player's game. I do think that you might have figured out a solid archype for deckbuilding, that revolves around weenies and not drawing too much, but that's just how we roll in these games. We have archtypes, then we have other types to counter them, and by the end of the day some decks will usually be a bit stronger overral than others.

Other than that I am super excited about all the things they spoiled at this point! I have zero background from the previous iteration of this game, but I was a diehard fan of Conquest (Desgosto, man you're just wrong, the game is sick! ) and I get the vibe from this article, that this game might be even better!

I suppose we will have to see... I, unlike you did not enjoy Conquest for a number of reasons.

From what we know so far, this game looks competently put together. The real rub is going to come when you get a full look at the rules, and a better idea of what is available in terms of cards and their capabilities.

It looks smashing, the art is intense and absolutely steller. But for the most part all of their recent efforts in LCG's have had pretty decent art (some instances aside).

But a pretty game does not make a good game, let alone a fun one. Here is to hoping it is as fun to play as it is to look at.

I'm curious as to how people would see a Shadowlands faction working with the honour/dishonour mechanic. Surely it wouldn't make much sense for them to lose for hitting 0 honour, right? So they'd need some completely alternative rules for card draw. And even then, if they can't be dishonoured out, they negate a lot of decks that now stand no chance against them.

Which admittedly was a problem in the original card game as well, but it's one of the biggest design problems the game had, and a big reason as to why Spider Clan became what it is in the first place.

20 minutes ago, Iuchi Toshimo said:

That makes our Unicorn preview a tad disappointing. "We broke through our foe's defenses and destroyed their pathetic castle! Now, immediately invite them to dinner!"

"We have broken through our foe's defenses and destroyed their pathetic castle, now we will immediately make them eat dinner with us in the ruins of their home."

2 hours ago, Ryric said:

I like the bidding aspect for card draw - the more honor you're willing to lose, the tricksier your play style can be.

It took a minute to catch that at first, but that's a great way to look at it.

3 minutes ago, Shikaku said:

But a pretty game does not make a good game, let alone a fun one. Here is to hoping it is as fun to play as it is to look at.

True that! If anything might worry me, is the potential analysis paralysis here, when you'll have a ton load of decisions to make:

- How much to "overpay" for this unit?

- Where do I decare a Conflict?

- WHAT KIND of conflict?

- Throw in an elemental ring there too?

-Honor dial shenanigans?

I'm mainly concerned about my casual group, who tend to think on much lesser things waaaay looong...

25 minutes ago, Iuchi Toshimo said:

That makes our Unicorn preview a tad disappointing. "We broke through our foe's defenses and destroyed their pathetic castle! Now, immediately invite them to dinner!"

more like "Now we invite them to concede the other territory peacefully!"

27 minutes ago, Iuchi Toshimo said:

That makes our Unicorn preview a tad disappointing. "We broke through our foe's defenses and destroyed their pathetic castle! Now, immediately invite them to dinner!"

...at said dinner, we will casually invite them to turn over any other lands they aren't capable of protecting. For the good of the Empire, and all that.

9 minutes ago, Smobey said:

I'm curious as to how people would see a Shadowlands faction working with the honour/dishonour mechanic. Surely it wouldn't make much sense for them to lose for hitting 0 honour, right? So they'd need some completely alternative rules for card draw. And even then, if they can't be dishonoured out, they negate a lot of decks that now stand no chance against them.

Which admittedly was a problem in the original card game as well, but it's one of the biggest design problems the game had, and a big reason as to why Spider Clan became what it is in the first place.

Well, since we have a 1:1 equivalence between honor and card draw now, honor losses/gains could influence Shadowlands draw rate, or maybe mill cards out of their deck, with a potential loss condition of running their deck out or something.

I agree they shouldn't just get to ignore the honor side of the game.

Hype intensifying.

Want badly.

Something deep in the bones of my Asian heritage demands it.