Because working with, or giving money to Games Workshop is a universally terrible idea. They are game company cancer.

Just now, AtoMaki said:

It was taken away.

maybe.
Looking at RuneWars it's possible the "divorce" was mutual or even started by FFG.
FFG has moved on pretty quick and GW doesn't seem interested in pushing a RPG or cardgame...

7 minutes ago, oDESGOSTO said:

I'm not into the FFG board but regarding the strenght of the IP and the sales numbers and player base, Star Wars is a fail.

Decipher's Star Wars competed directly with M:TG, in a matter that WOTC pulled the wallet and bought the game from Decipher.
So, why ain't this SW LCG directly competing with M:TG? When it can't even compete internally against AGOT, being the now-least played LCG.

L5R was as perfect as C:NR (Classic: Netrunner) was. It was a game, it had flaws. C:NR was also limited and straightforward as now people claim L5R was, with only one way to win. But now A:NR has a lot of ways to win, Fast Adv, Fortress, Tag&Bag, Big Rig, Blackmail (now killed by the new MWL)... and only with a few touches here and there, nothing was rebuilt or absurdely changed.
L5R has changed a lot. It's not the fact that maintaining 2 decks, provinces and 3 wincons that makes the same game, it's the same as I'm saying that Pokemon CCG and M:TG are the same game because both have one deck with cards, creatures, energy/mana, attachments... no, this L5R will be really really different from the old L5R. For some it can be a good sign, but for those, who played Classic Netrunner and went into Android: Netrunner with no questions asked, probably will not do the same in L5R.

It's something of an apples-to-oranges scenario, though - an LCG against a CCG is always going to have different market-space goals and requirements. And early Decipher Star Wars did go toe-to-toe with Magic, but faded very, very quickly and was out of the market within five years. WOTC didn't buy the license to the Decipher game - they bought a license to make their own game after the Decipher license was allowed to lapse. It's a subtle distinction, but an important one (and the WotC Star Wars game didn't exactly do great business, either).

I agree that the difference between the Netrunner re-launch and the L5R launch is very stark, mostly because with L5R, they didn't attempt to rebuild the old game. They started from the ground-up to build a new one, and again, we haven't played it yet! I'm firmly in the camp of "enjoy what you have" because what we used to have is gone. I can mourn for days gone by or I can look forward for what's next, and I'd rather look forward.

5 minutes ago, Hidatom said:

"Curious that the same happened with 40K Conquest, that was sold on these same boards as the next big thing to come."

Conquest did NOT FAIL...the IP went away.
GoT is very healthy and L5R looks to be more successful.
you have made a number of pronouncements based on very little information.
if you think this sucks so much please go play some other game...your baseless negativity is not needed.

Very little information?! Humm... FFG Worlds participations from the past 2 years seams solid info to me. Or ICv2 sales numbers...
But it's better to follow blindly than to start questioning, right?!

11 minutes ago, rzlittle said:

I don't envision it quite on that scale of time; rather than years or decades, I think of weeks or maybe seasons. A personality leaving due to fate may simply be him being called to court, recovering from an injury, or going to attend his child's naming ceremony. If/when the personality returns to play later, that responsibility has been fulfilled and they are able to return to duty in the field.

I like that! Nice way of looking at it!

so sales of other LCG's are better than GoT?
How are VS and Doomtown doing?

5 minutes ago, oDESGOSTO said:

I'm not into the FFG board but regarding the strenght of the IP and the sales numbers and player base, Star Wars is a fail.
Decipher's Star Wars competed directly with M:TG, in a matter that WOTC pulled the wallet and bought the game from Decipher.
So, why ain't this SW LCG directly competing with M:TG? When it can't even compete internally against AGOT, being the now-least played LCG.

L5R was as perfect as C:NR (Classic: Netrunner) was. It was a game, it had flaws. C:NR was also limited and straightforward as now people claim L5R was, with only one way to win. But now A:NR has a lot of ways to win, Fast Adv, Fortress, Tag&Bag, Big Rig, Blackmail (now killed by the new MWL)... and only with a few touches here and there, nothing was rebuilt or absurdely changed.
L5R has changed a lot. It's not the fact that maintaining 2 decks, provinces and 3 wincons that makes the same game, it's the same as I'm saying that Pokemon CCG and M:TG are the same game because both have one deck with cards, creatures, energy/mana, attachments... no, this L5R will be really really different from the old L5R. For some it can be a good sign, but for those, who played Classic Netrunner and went into Android: Netrunner with no questions asked, probably will not do the same in L5R.

That is a really, really, really high bar for success for Star Wars. Unrealistic expectations don't have to be met. I love SWCCG. But, SWLCG not being SWCCG isn't a mark against SWLCG. I also fail to see how the changes to Netrunner are not comparable to the changes here. If I remember that time right, the 3 per deck limit was a pretty large change for many.

L5R was a relic of its time. Card games have evolved. If SWCGG was to get a new edition, I **** well expect a **** ton of revisions to that game, and that is my most favorite card game ever. You are judging the game on the very broad strokes that FFG has painted. I'm sure the game will have a lot more intricacies with the full card list. What I have seen is ripe for a great design space.

1 minute ago, oDESGOSTO said:

Very little information?! Humm... FFG Worlds participations from the past 2 years seams solid info to me. Or ICv2 sales numbers...
But it's better to follow blindly than to start questioning, right?!

I'm not familiar with those numbers - can you provide some sources? I'd be really interested in seeing how playership has improved/declined over the years, and whether it's part of a larger number.

And again, let's keep things civil. Nobody needs to try to guess anybody's motivations.

1 minute ago, Sithborg said:

I'm sure the game will have a lot more intricacies with the full card list. What I have seen is ripe for a great design space.

Oh my goodness, yes. I can't wait to homebrew some cards... *evil smile*

7 minutes ago, Hidatom said:

maybe.
Looking at RuneWars it's possible the "divorce" was mutual or even started by FFG.
FFG has moved on pretty quick and GW doesn't seem interested in pushing a RPG or cardgame...

Rumors say that X-wing and it's success was a big wedge between the two companies. So, it very well could've been building for a while.

Star Wars CCG was a terribly designed, over-complex, over-detailed game that thrived on the strength of its license (especially in the Star Wars interest wave that sounded the lead-up to the prequels) and the huge surge of CCG interest in the 90s following MTG.

On the subject of enlightenment, it's also possible that it's in the game as a condition that makes it easier to win. Since one of the consequences of enlightenment is knowing universal truth, imagine an effect that once you fulfill xyz conditions a lot of mystery of the game state is revealed - your opponent plays with their hand open, you see all their provinces, and they have to pick their honor dial choice first then reveal it.

Something like that would make achieving enlightenment a huge boost to victory without it being a victory condition itself.

2 minutes ago, Ryoshun Higoka said:

And early Decipher Star Wars did go toe-to-toe with Magic, but faded very, very quickly and was out of the market within five years. WOTC didn't buy the license to the Decipher game - they bought a license to make their own game after the Decipher license was allowed to lapse. It's a subtle distinction, but an important one (and the WotC Star Wars game didn't exactly do great business, either).

WOTC bought the license before the Decipher's expiration, Decipher was trying to renew the license but Lucasfilms negged them, already in touch with WOTC for the 2001 license swap.

Just now, Himoto said:

Star Wars CCG was a terribly designed game that thrived on the strength of its license (especially in the Star Wars interest wave that sounded the lead-up to the prequels) and the huge surge of CCG interest in the 90s following MTG.

Oh, we could go on for days talking about the horrifying crash-factory that was Decipher.

That said, I actually find their games to be some fun guilty pleasures. And (before they inevitably messed it up), their LOTR was beautifully designed.

Sigh.

1 minute ago, oDESGOSTO said:

WOTC bought the license before the Decipher's expiration, Decipher was trying to renew the license but Lucasfilms negged them, already in touch with WOTC for the 2001 license swap.

Huh! Did not know that - I'd love to read your source on that. I was going by the WotC and Decipher press releases of the time - if you've got some inside info, shoot me a link!

1 minute ago, Ryric said:

On the subject of enlightenment, it's also possible that it's in the game as a condition that makes it easier to win. Since one of the consequences of enlightenment is knowing universal truth, imagine an effect that once you fulfill xyz conditions a lot of mystery of the game state is revealed - your opponent plays with their hand open, you see all their provinces, and they have to pick their honor dial choice first then reveal it.

Something like that would make achieving enlightenment a huge boost to victory without it being a victory condition itself.

Rings are gained by cracking provinces. If you can take all Five provinces, You've bloody well won the game.

I enjoyed the Decipher SWCCG, but wow did it get cumbersome with fiddly little rules there. You could explain the basic game to a newbie in a few minutes, then show them the 40 page tiny print book of exceptional rules that each applied to 1-2 cards.

3 minutes ago, Ryric said:

On the subject of enlightenment, it's also possible that it's in the game as a condition that makes it easier to win. Since one of the consequences of enlightenment is knowing universal truth, imagine an effect that once you fulfill xyz conditions a lot of mystery of the game state is revealed - your opponent plays with their hand open, you see all their provinces, and they have to pick their honor dial choice first then reveal it.

Something like that would make achieving enlightenment a huge boost to victory without it being a victory condition itself.

I enjoy the way you think, sir. That would be a fun mechanical way to represent enlightenment!

It seems to me it is a small loud minority that has become openly hostile to the new LCG, even though there is still a substantial amount of information that has yet to be released. FFG seems to have looked at many of the strengths and weaknesses of the old L5R with the intent of making it a faster, sleeker, and more fluid game. It seems to have removed the avalanching of the old game, it looks like the turtleing is gone, honor rockets and honor solitaire is gone, gold screw/flood is gone. So far many of my complaints of the old L5R are seemingly absent while still maintaining a high level of strategic and tactical acumen required for a substantial victory.

Now I will hold final judgement of the game until I play it, but based upon what is currently visible it appears to be a fast paced, tactics based game where every decision you make can swing things in one direction or another. With this in mind it also seems that the chances of developing a fun unique deck built around your strategy will be likely to occur. I hope the game will be as good at it is looking right now, both art wise and game play wise.

Just now, Coyote Walks said:

Rings are gained by cracking provinces. If you can take all Five provinces, You've bloody well won the game.

I mean, yeah...

1 hour ago, Suzume Tomonori said:

As someone who has never played Ivory Edition I am curious, what was it about that edition that killed the game scene do you think?

Power level shift from Emperor + lack of actions to take in any given battle. While I understood the intent, and even agreed with some of their design decisions, the card power level left each action feeling less impactful towards the conclusion of a battle. Especially, given that most actions were designed to not interfere too much with your opponent. If I play +3F, and then you play +3F, there isn't as much interest as "I bow your guy with a kill action, you kill my follower with a send home" etc. At least to me. It was basically boring, especially coming after emperor. I continued on into the first expansion, but it never gained enough interest to keep going.

1 minute ago, Ryoshun Higoka said:

Huh! Did not know that - I'd love to read your source on that. I was going by the WotC and Decipher press releases of the time - if you've got some inside info, shoot me a link!

Try some Scrye mags from 2001, they were the ones that published mostly pieces about Decipher where InQuest published everything related with the WOTC group.

Also, I guess the wikipedia entry mentions that.

1 minute ago, Coyote Walks said:

Rings are gained by cracking provinces. If you can take all Five provinces, You've bloody well won the game.

Well, you can get rings by winning conflicts without having enough "oomph" to break the province.

1 minute ago, Coyote Walks said:

Rings are gained by cracking provinces. If you can take all Five provinces, You've bloody well won the game.

Actually, rings are gained by winning at provinces. You don't have to break the prov to get the ring bonus.

Just now, Yoritomo Kazuto said:

It seems to me it is a small loud minority that has become openly hostile to the new LCG, even though there is still a substantial amount of information that has yet to be released. FFG seems to have looked at many of the strengths and weaknesses of the old L5R with the intent of making it a faster, sleeker, and more fluid game. It seems to have removed the avalanching of the old game, it looks like the turtleing is gone, honor rockets and honor solitaire is gone, gold screw/flood is gone. So far many of my complaints of the old L5R are seemingly absent while still maintaining a high level of strategic and tactical acumen required for a substantial victory.

Now I will hold final judgement of the game until I play it, but based upon what is currently visible it appears to be a fast paced, tactics based game where every decision you make can swing things in one direction or another. With this in mind it also seems that the chances of developing a fun unique deck built around your strategy will be likely to occur. I hope the game will be as good at it is looking right now, both art wise and game play wise.

Very well put!